Perspectives

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
This article has an interest perspective on the OWS crowd and American's in general. Maybe we don't need protests as much as we need another heavy dose of that good old American work ethic.

Maybe many of those who "protest" and "complain" have done everything they could to put themselves into the positions that they are in.

If you think it is SO bad here, look around.


Attention, Protestors: You're Probably Part of the 1%​


About a year ago, The Wall Street Journal ran an article describing the plight of Americans struggling to rebuild after bankruptcy. The article highlighted Linda Frakes, who filed for bankruptcy after accumulating over $300,000 in credit card debt.

"Ms. Frakes is now unemployed, living on $330 a week of unemployment benefits and odd jobs," the Journal wrote. Frakes "struggled to rent a home and buy a car after bankruptcy. A used-car dealer ultimately gave her financing on a Jaguar."

No one's hardship should be belittled. Becoming unemployed or losing a home aren't just financial problems. They're social and emotional problems that strike at people's sense of being.

But things always need to be kept in perspective. Only in America, I thought to myself after reading the article, can someone be driving a Jaguar and portrayed as living in an impoverished underclass. Context is crucial with these issues.

The recent Occupy Wall Street protests have aimed their message at the income disparity between the 1% richest Americans and the rest of the country. But what happens when you expand that and look at the 1% richest of the entire world? Some really interesting numbers emerge. If there were a global Occupy Wall Street protest, people as well off as Linda Frakes might actually be the target.

In America, the top 1% earn more than $380,000 per year. We are, however, among the richest nations on Earth. How much do you need to earn to be among the top 1% of the world?
$34,000.

That was the finding World Bank economist Branko Milanovic presented in his 2010 book The Haves and the Have-Nots. Going down the distribution ladder may be just as surprising. To be in the top half of the globe, you need to earn just $1,225 a year. For the top 20%, it's $5,000 per year. Enter the top 10% with $12,000 a year. To be included in the top 0.1% requires an annual income of $70,000.

Of course, goods and services cost different amounts in different countries. These numbers only apply to those living in the U.S. To adjust for purchasing power parity, those living in Western Europe should discount their dollar-denominated incomes by 10%-20%, Milanovic says. Those in China and Africa should increase their incomes by 2.5-fold. India, by threefold.
The global distribution figures may seem incomprehensibly low, but consider a couple of statistics you're likely familiar with: According to the U.N., "Nearly half the world's population, 2.8 billion people, earn less than $2 a day." According to the World Bank, 95% of those living in the developing world earn less than $10 a day.

Those numbers are so shocking that you might only think about them in the abstract. But when you consider them in the context of the entire globe, including yourself, the skewing effects they have on the distribution of income is simply massive. It means that Americans we consider poor are among some of the world's most well-off. As Milanovic notes, "the poorest [5%] of Americans are better off than more than two-thirds of the world population." Furthermore, "only about 3 percent of the Indian population have incomes higher than the bottom (the very poorest) U.S. percentile."

In short, most of those protesting in the Occupy Wall Street movement would be considered wealthy -- perhaps extraordinarily wealthy -- by much of the world. Many of those protesting the 1% are, ironically, the 1%.

This isn't to disparage the Occupiers' message. Protestors are, I think, upset because so many of America's top 1% are perceived to have earned their income unjustifiably -- think bankers and bailouts. Most are not against inequality of wealth; they're against inequality of opportunity. As they should be.

But take a step back and put things in perspective. As Milanovic notes, "One's income ... crucially depends on citizenship, which in turn ... means place of birth. All people born in rich countries thus receive a location premium ... all those born in poor countries get a location penalty. It is easy to see that in such a world, most of one's lifetime income will be determined at birth." He continues, "it turns out that place of birth explains more than 60 percent of variability in global incomes." And there are few better places to be born than America -- even if you end up poor by American standards. If there is inequality in opportunity, those born in America are the ones with the unfair advantage.

As author Matt Ridley put it, "Today, of Americans officially designated as 'poor,' 99 percent have electricity, running water, flush toilets, and a refrigerator; 95 percent have a television, 88 percent a telephone, 71 percent a car and 70 percent air conditioning. Cornelius Vanderbilt had none of these." Nor does much of the world.

Food for thought.






Attention, Protestors: You're Probably Part of the 1% - Yahoo! News
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Good story Joe....makes them protesters look greedy as well...

It really is amazing how even the poor here are richer then a lot of the world....Just the fact when you wake up in the morning and are able to just turn on a tap for water when almost 2/3's of the world can not...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Good story Joe....makes them protesters look greedy as well...

It really is amazing how even the poor here are richer then a lot of the world....Just the fact when you wake up in the morning and are able to just turn on a tap for water when almost 2/3's of the world can not...

That was to point of this story. It is hard to imagine that in MOST of the world the poor are starving to death. In the U.S. many of those on welfare have an obesity problem. They are even ALLOWED to buy cupcakes with their welfare money.

Canada has not room to complain either. For the most part things are more than good up there. I only say that because the last time we were in Toronto there was a massive demonstration along the same lines.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
That was to point of this story. It is hard to imagine that in MOST of the world the poor are starving to death. In the U.S. many of those on welfare have an obesity problem. They are even ALLOWED to buy cupcakes with their welfare money.

Canada has not room to complain either. For the most part things are more than good up there. I only say that because the last time we were in Toronto there was a massive demonstration along the same lines.

I know Joe....The more the Government gives them the more they seem to think they DESERVE what they get...instead of earning it...always the hand out....gimmie, gimmie...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I know Joe....The more the Government gives them the more they seem to think they DESERVE what they get...instead of earning it...always the hand out....gimmie, gimmie...

I sure seems that way, does it not?

People tend to forget, that for the most part, their lives and their success or failure in that life are the result of their own decisions. The choices one makes in life has FAR more control over the outcome of that life than "bad luck" and "being held down by the MAN" combined. I guess what I am saying is, if you are not happy with your success in life, look in the mirror.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well I've said it a lot of times, we don't have poor in this country, we have rich poor. Even places like England and Europe don't have poor which is really something that is ignored.

I won't say much about the OWS stuff other than I think there is a group within some of these protests that have a few valid points that should be listened to - mainly about the lending practices that got us into the mess to begin with AND the idea that any company is too large to fail. They started to speak up when this started and was stifled right away, first from those there and then the media.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
They don't need to "protest" to get rid of those practices. They need to start voting out those who impose this stupidity on us. We need to do away with all the socialism and get back to earning our way through life.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
This story was written with the mindset of the UN, and was written to make the US feel guilty. People have always been a product of their environment. Always. If everything was equal all over the planet, and by that I mean the same exact resources, climate, opportunities, cultures, everything, then valid comparisons can be made. But trying to compare the US with the rest of the world is as absurd as trying to compare Boston with Pikeville, KY, or Bison, SD with Miami Beach.

You can live pretty well on $500 a week in the town I live it, but the same $500 a week gets you eating cat food in Baltimore. It all depends on where you live and what your opportunities are. It's always been that way, and no matter how badly people want the standard of living in North Borneo to be the same as that in Jacksonville, it ain't ever gonna happen.

Rich and poor are both relative terms. You could earn $2000 a week in Athens, TN, but the same $2000 a week would have you pinching pennies in Manhattan. If you're fond of comparing apples and oranges and want to compare our poor in the US to the poor in, say, Djibouti, then our poor aren't very poor. But if you compare apples to apples then our poor is just as poor as the poor everywhere else.

Poor is poor, doesn't matter where you live or in which epoch. Throughout the entire history of mankind there has never been a time when we did not have poor people, nor has there been a time when someone didn't think it could be fixed by the haves giving to the have nots. It's never worked, and isn't likely to now, either.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I did not take it as wanting to make the U.S. feel "guilty". I took it more as just looking at things from a different point of view.


We DO whine too much in this country. Yes, being poor is hard, even here. We in this country have the ability to fix that problem and, for the most part, do. Those who don't "lift themselves" out of it have, for the most part, only themselves to blame.

You are correct. There have always been poor, even Jesus said that, and there will always be poor. Taking from those who succeed and giving it to those who don't will NEVER change that.

The greatest act of charity is to allow people to succeed. The more you provide for people the less chance there is of that happening.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
They don't need to "protest" to get rid of those practices. They need to start voting out those who impose this stupidity on us. We need to do away with all the socialism and get back to earning our way through life.

Well I have to ask, did it work for us so far?

I don't see much in the way of changes with all these people voting because most of them have short memories or can't stand on any one conviction for long. An awful lot of them make those who we elect more important than they are and even now I have yet to see the outrage on some issues that face us, more or less a bunch of lazy people who don't want to get involved.

Socialism isn't the problem, never was, the way many approach the problem of solving problems under what people consider socialism is.

As for poor, yep it is reality but to understand when people ignore the rest of the world and act as if we are the only country with these problems, it makes people like me tell them to grow up.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The greatest act of charity is to allow people to succeed.
Is it really charity, though? The "haves" allowing the "little people" to succeed, something like that? The OWS protesters are, like was stated in the article, "they're against inequality of opportunity," not against the inequality of wealth. But the deck has been stacked in favor of the haves to the point that the good old American work ethic means nothing anymore, because that work ethic is focused on keeping the cards stacked exactly the way they are.

Through the efforts of lobbying and corruption, the government is controlled by banking, insurance and health care. They are all one in the same, and everything we do in our daily lives is affected by them (or rather, it). For example, if we remove the government regulations that were influenced by the three industries above, then everything from the price of a Big Mac to a box of shotgun shells would be half of what it is now.

The good old American work ethic no longer works. People have seem themselves working twice as hard for half as much. Long gone are the days where the good old American work ethic can reward a middle class family with a house and a car and a family all from a single breadwinner's income. The government and the big businesses they are in partnership with have killed the American Dream, and along with it, the American work ethic, because the American work ethic no longer allows for the American Dream.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I am by no means saying that things are NOT out of wack, they are. I am more than aware of the mess we are in. I understand how unneeded regulation is hurting everyone. I know how corrupt the banking/government "system" is.

All I am saying is, to a large degree, MOST people are in the mess they are in primarily due to their own efforts, or lack there of.

Many have WEIRD ideas too, like, they should be able to make a zillion bucks doing things that most people are not will to pay big buck for. AND THEN, expect food stamps to help support that effort. OR, picking a life goal that will not support a family and then having one. OR, buying a house that is really out of your price range. OR, not seeing that one has a set of skills that are in demand. I can go on and on.

It is all about priorities and we have some very sad priorities in this country. WE have also ASKED for this, WE keep demanding more and more from government and less and less of our selves. THAT has lead us to the point where we are today.
 

jimby82

Veteran Expediter
Through the efforts of lobbying and corruption, the government is controlled by banking, insurance and health care. They are all one in the same, and everything we do in our daily lives is affected by them (or rather, it). For example, if we remove the government regulations that were influenced by the three industries above, then everything from the price of a Big Mac to a box of shotgun shells would be half of what it is now.

True. We need to remove the influence business and labor has on our election process. Only individual HUMANS should have the ability to contribute to political campaigns, and on a limited basis. Would solve a majority of our problems. Will something like that ever get put into law? Fat chance.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Layout mentioned we need to vote out those responsible. And my question is, replace them with whom? It seems every class of freshmen are indoctrinated on the ways of Washington. If indeed we are to vote them out, where are we going to find people who would willingly vote in disadvantages for themselves? That goes against human nature. The unemployed do not want their benefits to end. The union folk does not want to lose their pensions. Congressmen have the power to make their lives easier as well... something they will not want to give up, regardless of how good their intentions are.

I'm just saying, it'll take a lot more than voting. Blood is said to feed the tree of liberty; so don't expect it won't be spilled if these elitists are wanting to hold onto their power.
 

scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
First he says all politicians are bums, then he says vote them out. What good does that do?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Layout mentioned we need to vote out those responsible. And my question is, replace them with whom? It seems every class of freshmen are indoctrinated on the ways of Washington. If indeed we are to vote them out, where are we going to find people who would willingly vote in disadvantages for themselves? That goes against human nature. The unemployed do not want their benefits to end. The union folk does not want to lose their pensions. Congressmen have the power to make their lives easier as well... something they will not want to give up, regardless of how good their intentions are.

I'm just saying, it'll take a lot more than voting. Blood is said to feed the tree of liberty; so don't expect it won't be spilled if these elitists are wanting to hold onto their power.

The ideas are all simple. The ability to put those ideas into action is hard. It MAY come to the spilling of blood, I have said that all along. That does NOT mean that I don't want to at least TRY to do it at the ballot box. Blood in the streets is the LAST resort. It may by the ONLY one.

I still contend that those OWS support the leftists and are therefore spreading the evil. They are only a front for the left.
 

tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
There will always be poor as Tennesseahawk has said.Just as their will always be people who are willing to work hard to better themselfs,there will always be people who only want to cheat the system and make a living at it.Even though many people buy into the belief that hard work does not pay off and that people cant get rich anymore because the rich control the money and decide the have and have nots, this is simply not true.

Perhaps the biggest problem with the OWS is they should be in washington protesting on the scale they are in NY.Im with layout on this get ride of the dirty theives in washington and wall street has no one to give their money to.The problem is not wall street the problem is washington,In far to many ways.Wall street is no different then the unions,they give their money to the theives in washington who is going to furhter push their agenda.


As I have said befor the media loves to point out how much the rich make every year yet they never seem to talk about the number of new millionaires that this country has every year.I guess it is easyer to get control the people when you make them belive they cant have the american dream because the rich wont allow it.


states-most-millionaires-cnbc: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
One million dollars in 2011, adjusted for inflation, is the same as $171,008.73 in 1970 dollars. In 1980, $363,173.18. In 2000, just $758,961.43.

A million dollars ain't what it used to be.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
One million dollars in 2011, adjusted for inflation, is the same as $171,008.73 in 1970 dollars. In 1980, $363,173.18. In 2000, just $758,961.43.

A million dollars ain't what it used to be.

Yep, and 171,008 is FAR better than welfare. Then again, after taxes, the REAL KILLER of personal wealth, who knows? I do know one thing for a fact. If you settle for a minimum wage job, you get what you ask for.

Government/union interference is nothing new. Just ask Preston Tucker. It was bad then too. Even with that there have been MANY billion dollar companies that exist now that did not then. Started by people that had nothing. It CAN be done.

It has NEVER been easy. It never will be. Are things equal and fair? Nope, Have the every been? Nope. Will they every be? Nope.

There are a few things that one can do in light of that. One can spout platitudes about how unfair life is etc. One can give up and become a ward (slave) of the state. OR
One can get off one's butt, and make the best of one's self that one can. Until one is doing that, no one is holding them back, other than themselves.
 

clcooper

Expert Expediter
Yep, and 171,008 is FAR better than welfare. Then again, after taxes, the REAL KILLER of personal wealth, who knows? I do know one thing for a fact. If you settle for a minimum wage job, you get what you ask for.

Government/union interference is nothing new. Just ask Preston Tucker. It was bad then too. Even with that there have been MANY billion dollar companies that exist now that did not then. Started by people that had nothing. It CAN be done.

It has NEVER been easy. It never will be. Are things equal and fair? Nope, Have the every been? Nope. Will they every be? Nope.

There are a few things that one can do in light of that. One can spout platitudes about how unfair life is etc. One can give up and become a ward (slave) of the state. OR
One can get off one's butt, and make the best of one's self that one can. Until one is doing that, no one is holding them back, other than themselves.

please show us how to do it .so if the only jobs being offered are minimum wage jobs. show us how you can get a higher paying job . who are you sleeping with . remember the key words the only jobs being OFFERED ARE minimum wage jobs

so the United States Constitution means nothing then . for things to be fair and equal .

so we need more regulations . because regulations dont hold people back or make them a ward (slave) of the state.

i can see their mind contral is working . because nobody wants to stick togeather. like they did in the American Revolution
 
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