Personal conveyance

Dynamite 1

Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
thats why i didnt mention regs. just a very loose use of a description of what a carrier can and cannot do in terms of crossing the line. it would seem to me this would be the easiest way to address this question of personal time. also may get some answers from a higher power as to how they look at eobr in the future with rules governing how they need to be set up. but this problem needs to be directed to the carrier. carriers can and will make company policy over and above the regs anytime they see fit. IF YOU LET THEM. make them hold off, make them pursue what is correct before implementing. they are just covering themselves at the instruction of their legal dept. and probably have not taken it any farther than that.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
OK,her is another light on the subjecj.I was about out of my 14 hours 1 day(running Solo)so I pulled into a rest area.There was a DOT officer there,so I asked him,If i were empty,even though I was out of hours,could I show the truck and trailer as a POV,and go to a motel for the week end,meaning driving off duty.
What he told me,was since the trailer was able to be loaded,it is always considered laiden,but if I was just in the tractor ,no trailer I could do that,cover the signs and go to the motel.He also said I couldnt drop the trailer in the rest area.
Now you all with straight trucks and vans,even if not loaded,your still able to get a load,so what this DOT officer is saying,is a van or straight truck cant be used as a POV
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
Steve, that is not covered in the Regulation. And that is where the LEO's interpretation comes into play.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Now you all with straight trucks and vans,even if not loaded,your still able to get a load,so what this DOT officer is saying,is a van or straight truck cant be used as a POV

This is exactly what I have been told a number of times, if it has a box then it is considered under load.

The difference between a tractor and a straight truck is the tractor can unhook their trailer and can't be used hauling freight without a trailer.

The State's laws and regs rule over the feds - rights?

If the state requires the van to scale, even though it is not in the fed's regulations, the state requires the van to scale - period.

I think there is a disconnect between what people think is an interpretation and what is a state law/regulation.
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
This is exactly what I have been told a number of times, if it has a box then it is considered under load.

The difference between a tractor and a straight truck is the tractor can unhook their trailer and can't be used hauling freight without a trailer.

The State's laws and regs rule over the feds - rights?

If the state requires the van to scale, even though it is not in the fed's regulations, the state requires the van to scale - period.

I think there is a disconnect between what people think is an interpretation and what is a state law/regulation.

Then it would be easy to post a state law where it clearly states that a CMV with the ability to carry cargo cannot be considered for the personal conveyance. So post that and I'll agree. If not then it ain't so. ;)
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
Just an additional thought. I have no doubt that most of the people that say they have talked with a official actually have. But when Officials have written correspondence about a interpretation of a law they will often include a reference to the law in their letter. When you are lucky enough to talk to a knowledgeable official, why don't you ask what the regulation number is, so that you can show us here. If you would do that, it would stop all debate on that subject.

Reminds me of my Army days when I got hammered by the new Troop Commander over the length of my mustache in front of my Platoon. (a real no-no) His interpretation of the Army Regulation was so far off that it was bordering on hilarity. After quoting the military regulation verbatim, I further explained that if he had a SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) regarding the length I had not been made aware of it. (so it couldn't be an SOP after-all I was the Platoon Sergeant and acting Platoon Leader (Second Lieutenant position) and (it was his first day of Command) So my point is even Commanders don't know everything and are as susceptible to not fully knowing Regulations (even thou they think they do) as the next guy. The state can change a Federal reg. as long as they don't supersede the Reg.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
although this isnt crossing the line very far it is crossing the line of the question that has got fedex questioned before. when the carrier starts limmiting or instructing what you can do on personal time when not under load, well you all know what i am getting at. carriers must stay at a definite arms length from their leasee as far as personal accountance goes. not being accusational just making note.....

That is an interesting point about personal conveyance ("accountance") and you are right. There is more than one liability issue in play here. A carrier that restricts how an independent contractor legally uses his or her truck when that truck is not under dispatch is a carrier that may create an unintended problem while seeking to avoid another.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Just keep in mind that by leasing on to a carrier, you are transferring the right to possession and/or use of goods or equipment (your truck) for a term in return for consideration. The "term" isn't necessarily limited to only those times when you are under dispatch. The carrier can be liable for things you do when not under dispatch, even when you are OOS, therefore many carriers will have certain policies to limit their liability. You may be an independent contractor, but you are still leased with the carrier, which carries with it certain legal obligations whether you are loaded or not, namely, an implied Duty of Trust and Confidence, which is implied in all contracts, and basically means that neither party will, without reasonable and proper cause, conduct itself in a manner likely to destroy or seriously damage the relationship of confidence and trust between the contractor and carrier.

A
Duty of Trust and Confidence is the provision that allows the carrier to protect itself with personal conveyance policies for a vehicle which displays their lettering and DOT number, whether that vehicle is in or out of service. It's what allows a carrier to prevent you from, say, parking your vehicle in a conspicuous parking space at the Nude Nude Nudie Girls XXX Galleria Day Spa Cafe. It's also the same provision that is supposed to prevent the carrier from likewise damaging the relationship of trust and confidence when penalizing you from turning down a load under a no-forced dispatch agreement.

So while the personal conveyance policies may seem arbitrary, even controlling, they are a part of what a carrier can do to limit their liability. If you cover up all lettering and are OOS with a Not-For-Hire sign on the truck (something you may need to get permission to do, or at least make them aware, depending on your contract), then a carrier is severely limited in what they can do to control your OOS time and movements.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I think a class action lawsuit is in order here.

I think if you don't like the rules, ya leave. Maybe companies who make dumb rules would get the hint if enough of their contractors quit over it, instead of hmmin and hawin.

I'd prefer a company like mine, where they don't care. Since we write the logs, we make the rules... or something like that. :rolleyes:
 
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