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Personal conveyance

TeamCaffee

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
What is fair? We are also concerned about our personal conveyance time.

Panther guys is the 30 minutes enough time to get done what you want to do? Do you get 30 minutes every 24 hours or is it on a different time frame?

If this is not adequate how much time do you think would be reasonable?
 
davekc

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
If you are a team, each driver can take the 30 minutes. I think you can take another after your full break but I don't recall any of our drivers asking about doing that. One driver say can go 20 miles to somewhere, and then the other can drive back.
Haven't had any problems with it so far.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
That is kind of a pain when you have a weekend off. Guess you could rent a car if you wanted to do anything, just added cost.
 
davekc

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I guess it would depend on how much running around you would be doing. If your doing a lot, I would think you would be logging that anyways.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
davekc said:
I guess it would depend on how much running around you would be doing. If your doing a lot, I would think you would be logging that anyways.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there are many sides to this one. I have no idea what the "right" answer will be.
 
ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
TeamCaffee said:
What is fair? We are also concerned about our personal conveyance time.

Panther guys is the 30 minutes enough time to get done what you want to do? Do you get 30 minutes every 24 hours or is it on a different time frame?

If this is not adequate how much time do you think would be reasonable?
Click to expand...

My concern is broader than 0.7 or 30 minutes or whatever the number may be. My concern is that the number is arbitrary.

It is becoming clear from the FMCSA rules and publications posted here in EO, and from the contractors who have had serious visits with FMCSA officials about this, that off-duty driving while using your truck as a personal conveyance is permitted and no specific time limit or mileage is given.

It troubles me that a carrier (Panther, FedEx, others) would so easily restrict our personal use of our own trucks and time when they are not legally required to do so. What purpose does it serve, really? None that I can see and I am encouraged to see some positive movement on our carriers end as stated here.
 
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layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I think that our carriers are acting out of fear of intimidation from the government. We are just the ones that have to take it in the ear.
 
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
A lot of the "company policy" on this has to do with limiting the carrier's liability. When you are using an unladen CMV as a personal conveyance, it's off-duty time, but the QC satellite positions will still show movement. If you recently went off-duty, or subsequently go on-duty-driving after moving the truck as a personal conveyance, and have an accident, the lawyers will own you and your carrier. If you're traveling "short distances" or a "reasonable distance", like to and from home and a terminal, the carrier's liability is minimal, but if you're running all over the place doing errands and stuff, like for more than half an hour, then it could be a problem. Rather than try and keep track of a bazillion individual drivers on a case-by-case basis, they just toss out a blanket company policy. While the DOT regs on this issue are less than crystal, the company policies are not, which makes it easier for everyone to know and follow the rules.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There is no easy answer. I never have liked the "it's my way or no way" attitude. Oh well, who knows what will happen. Maybe a lottery win? That is the only easy answer.
 
moose

moose

Veteran Expediter
Turtle said:
. While the DOT regs on this issue are less than crystal, .
Click to expand...

They are actually very clear ,
no time restrictions what so ever .

"Part 395.2, Interpretations Question 1 states, "Guidance: The FMCSRs do not address questions of pay. All the time spent operating a CMV for, or at the direction of, a motor carrier must be recorded as driving time."

Part 395.8, Interpretations Question 26 states, "Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver’s home to their terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver’s terminal to their home, may be considered Off-Duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver’s en-route lodgings (such as en-route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered Off-Duty time.

The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver’s home, from the driver’s home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en-route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance.

no where dose it's say what to log if the CMV is NOT laden...:(
 
Dynamite 1

Dynamite 1

Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
although this isnt crossing the line very far it is crossing the line of the question that has got fedex questioned before. when the carrier starts limmiting or instructing what you can do on personal time when not under load, well you all know what i am getting at. carriers must stay at a definite arms length from their leasee as far as personal accountance goes. not being accusational just making note. there should be a very easy way to make all happy. if it were me, any limit of how far or what i can do when unladen wouldnt make me happy either. we dont often drive far when not laden, but do spend more than 30/60 min. driving in an afternoon. we may go to the store, 15 min drive be there for 45 min then drive another 15 min to target/walmart. spend another 30/60 min then 15 more go to kohls then maybe another 15 and go to the mall, then we still have to go to supper and get back to the truckstop if we choose. we may not have driven 40 mi. the entire day but have or could exceed a personal limit set by a carrier. we do not generally set at the truckstop all day, especially on sat. or sun. we like to run around, if logging or not 30/60 min of allowable time would not suffice, as when in town every trip to a different location will take 15 min cause of traffic and parking. this is just my opinion and mine only.
 
greg334

greg334

Veteran Expediter
OMG ...

this is madding ...

and hilarious at the same time.

Not to pick on Phil but he has the absolute best quote of all.

ATeam said:
It troubles me that a carrier (Panther, FedEx, others) would so easily restrict our personal use of our own trucks and time when they are not legally required to do so.
Click to expand...

All of you are looking at Federal Regs and trying to figure out where it say this or that and a few of you don't get it while others do.

1 - FedEx is doing a poor job in communicating the info, it is normal for them. ALL big businesses, FedEx, UPS, Apple, Pfizer, GE, even Wal-Mart all move very slow and have poor communications but FedEx seems to be good at having people not being on the same page within the organization and even sitting next to each other because they DON'T drive and never have, I have had a bit of personal experience with that and a few of you are so Gung Ho over being company people you miss it because of your exuberance while discounting the critics.

2 - the company restricts you not because you are a good or bad contractor but rather they need to know what's going on because they are in the business of providing services to the ...

C U S T O M E R, not you.

3 - THE RESTRICTIONS ARE A COMPANY THINGS, not a regulation things, so it may be prudent to contact the head of the division, or group in this case and complain about it. I would think if 20 or better yet 30 trucks show up in Green, fill the parking lot up while demanding to see the person at the top, then there may be some action. Instead many of you are getting somewhat different info, talking to the WRONG people and then telling others what you talked about while they can deny anything being said - its happened before.

4 - REFUSE TO SIGN the contract until it is clear what impact it will have and you get all the answers you need to feel comfortable, because Heaven forbid you don't feel comfortable.

5 - ever think that this is a company wide thing and that they just don't trust you because they don't trust any contractor?

6 - the last time I looked, this was a business, not a vacation - want to act like an RV, get an RV.

7 - Unhooking the new units it is not a real option, the regs are not clear and can mean tampering or what ever to the company which means they can terminate your contract is possible and giving them one more tool to get rid of contractors they just don't like.

Welcome to Big Brother Expediting Company ... where we are always watching you. :p
 
jaminjim

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
Keep in mind that you can log these trips as on duty driving. If you are close to needing a 34 hour reset just limit your driving. The person who this will affect the most is the solo drivers.

If you are trying to use your truck as a sightseeing rent a car and drive 3-4 hundred miles you probably have problems with your Carrier.
 
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
moose said:
They are actually very clear ,
no time restrictions what so ever .
Click to expand...
True, no time restrictions, per se, but...

"Similarly, time spent traveling short distances ..."

...certainly indicates a distance restriction, and it's one that's not exactly crystal clear. For example, in Canada they list a very specific distance that can be traveled as a personal conveyance (75km), but in the US the specifics are not there, which makes the regs less than crystal. It's all open to interpretation of the individual DOT officer.

no where dose it's say what to log if the CMV is NOT laden...:(
Click to expand...
Sure it does. It states that it would be logged as off-duty.

The problem comes when the distance is further than "short distances" and you're driving a CMV with DOT numbers displayed instead of being covered up and a "not for hire" sign.
 
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