Panther trucks and job count

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Recently there's been vehement claiming of Panther having 1700 trucks and around 800 loads a day meaning half the fleet isn't running. That is not true. As of this morning the unit count is:

A 555
B 21
C 179
D 419
E 291
===
Total 1465

The A's are vans and Sprinters, B's are cubes or others too small to be a C but under logs, C, D and E everyone knows. At any given moment in time there are around 28-30% of units that are out of service for whatever reason. Others are in service but out of hours meaning about 1/3 of the fleet is unavailable. That leaves about 975 trucks actually available for loads.

If Panther was able to magically make every load offer be within reach of a truck then there definitely would be a shortage of trucks. Loads occur randomly and the best they can do is keep detailed records of where the loads were in the past and presume the majority will be in the same places again.

When you accept that good run of 483 paid with 37cpm fsc (hypothetical run) that delivers where you'll be the 4th truck on a 2 a day board they can't magically move a load from 183 miles away where there are 2 trucks for 3 loads a day. You sit a day and a load doesn't get covered because of equipment locations.

I don't know the percentage of trucks that are in the wrong place but if it were less than 10% I'd be amazed. I suspect it's more like 20%. That means out of 975 trucks a couple hundred are too far away from an available job. That leaves around 775-800 trucks in the same position as the jobs. Hey.... wait a minute.... didn't the same Panther basher say Panther is running about 800 jobs a day? If you are sitting in Charlotte and there is a load needing covering in Charlotte and you don't get a load that day it may be because you are in Charlotte MI, AR, IL, IA, LA, ME, TN, TX or VT and not in Charlotte, NC.

Expediting is related to real estate in one major area, location, location, location. If you aren't in the correct location you aren't going to do anything. The bad news is the crystal ball is broken so Panther can't tell you absolutely where to be. They can give you an option that has a better than 50% chance of being right based on prior trends or you can pull out a coin and have 50/50.

Now, so the same ones don't jump in and whine that I'm just a yes man, I'll tell you that Panther has warts. All companies do. I have no problem with stating both the pros and cons. I just believe when people are going to be negative they need to be factual.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Roadpig

Expert Expediter
EO forum. Brought to you by Panther.


'Nuff said.:p


JK. Freight is ough everywhere. It doesn't matter if it's LTL or expedite. We are in an industry wide recession.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You're welcome. Contrary to Roadpig and others opinion, I am not Panther. I'm currently affiliated with them as they are a good fit for me. I am not however Siamesed to either them or any other company. If I know actual facts about a particular subject relating to a particular company I will post them. I will not post speculations generated out of someone's rear end during a pity party. When others post pity party postulations and presuppositions I'll respond with actual facts if I have access to them.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Thanks Leo those are good numbers but the better ones would be the load count that was refused and the load count that went to other carriers to cover them.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
You know Leo,you remind me of a fellow who got into expediting the same time I did.We did everything the same,and stayed in contact regularly for seven years.I would warn him about drivers I let go,and he would do the same for me.We each bought or built trucks at roughly the same time.We compared notes on just about everything.Now,no one really tells the truth all the time in this business,but some just strech it a little and some make it up as they go.I generally try to be honest as lieing has never gotten me anywhere I could not get telling the truth.
Back to my friend.Since I trusted him,and he me,we both concluded that trying to make any real money with fleets,at the end of the year,took creativity.You could hedge here and wedge there,but creativity was as much a part of the bottom line as all the headaches and blood sweat and tears.
The one thing my buddy had that I did not have however,which really came to light when I decided to shut it down,was a big pile of money and land he had before he got into the trucking business.He really loves the business,like you do,but he admitted that the cost of maintaining the trucks,paticularly the last year and a half,blew all the profit out of the business for the entire year.Even the creativty we both had become expert at was not enough.He decided to carry on for the pure pig stabbing joy of it.In other words,profit was not as important as just doing what he loves.Sound familiar?
I guess I kind have a sneaking suspicion he's not the only one.
Problem is,as I told him,WHY DID YOU NOT TELL ME SOONER!!!!
Trying to keep up with a millionair who loves trucking and argues there is money in this business is like trying to win the lottery!
Come on Leo,you know run count and fleet size have a direct impact on the little guy out there trying to make enough to make ends meet.You do sound like the carriers when you talk about who's on vacation and the rest of that nonsense.Times are tough Leo,and everybodys fighting for $$$ right now.As Steve Earl once wrote"we live in the land of plenty and there ain't enough."
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I didn't say run count or fleet size aren't important. My point is that pulling numbers out of the air or a body cavity is worthless. I don't believe more than 1 in 10 companies isn't oversigned with trucks and even that 10th one may have too many. The point was and is don't make up stuff just to hear/read yourself speak/post. There are not 1700 Panther trucks out on the street corners competing for jobs. There aren't that many period. Of the one there are, many are not competing for various reasons. Even on the worst day there would be less than 1200 competing for that day's loads. On most days it would be 1000 or less. I suspect the ratios are similar at most companies. I'm just telling it like it is rather than leaving grossly incorrect numbers floating out there. Yes, times are challenging now. Yes, there are too many trucks out there. No, it isn't as extreme as the other thread suggested. That people take vacations, go out of service for maintenance and repairs, run out of hours etc. are facts of this business not nonsense.

I'm glad to hear you have such and intelligent friend. :+ Your friend apparently has heard the best way to make a small fortune in trucking is to start with a big one.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

Suds43

Seasoned Expediter
Leo...read your stats on total trucks for PII......one thing you didn't mention and not sure how one would find out......
figure in the trucks that are already committed to a load, I think "mental picture is that all 1400 panther vehicles are waiting for a load at the sametime. Wonder how that would change the numbers.....know what I mean? One would have to be able to figure the number of trucks available for a load, ones already committed to a load, ones out of service for whatever reason.......then look at the percentages....that would make a clearer picture.
Let me say first, I'm no Panther fan,,,,,went thru their orientation and wasn't comfortable with how they ran their business.......it just wasn't a good "fit" for us. We were with another company for over 2 yrs. until the owner terminated the lease and decided to try PII...We (as drivers,contractors)loved the company we had been with.....
I read all these complaints about PII and try not to throw in my 2 cents just to blow off steam why we didn't stay with PII.....
My point is........the ones that are slamming PII never say anything about the companies that they went to after PII,,what they like about them. IF their satisfied with their new companies....etc...
I imagine that some that write in here would have trouble finding anything positive in any situation they were in..........
 

bamamule

Seasoned Expediter
We moved back to pp and all i can say is wow they changed for the better not trying to say they are perfic but they have change for the good / miles have been good / they still asking for favors but miles are a hole lot better/ and dispach has taken a nice and polite pill/ wow
 

prescat

Expert Expediter
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to say Leo, I'm glad I read this thread, because I took something important from it that I will definitely use in the future....maybe the greatest EO line ever.
"I am not going to speculate on something generated by someone's rear-end during a pity party!". That is classic..LOL...:D
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I will say a couple of things that may or may not be of value. The first is Leo's post. I do agree with his observation that if information is put out there and it is of a negative nature, then at least have the facts straight. Nothing really complicated.
After reading Talcal's post, I do agree that one must have extensive capital to operate a fleet. It wasn't that long ago that many thought I was a complete idiot for recommending a $10,000 minimum cash reserve per truck. Are we here at that point of a slowdown? I would say we are in certain areas.
That capital may come in handy sooner rather than later.
I defend Panther in a lot of instances, but not all. I call them as I see them. As mentioned, they have made some great improvements in key areas, however the business and economic conditions are changing faster than they are reacting in some instances.
They need to work and administrate a much better relocation program, followed by a reallocation of personell to answer phones, help with relocation of vehicles to hot spots, and obtain opportunities/loads so both can benefit. No real cost as the people are already there.
The value of recruiting becomes thin when a model is created that sends trucks into unproductive areas with no recourse, and then recruit more trucks with the thought that "we have no coverage, and are missing loads".
A revolving door process results. It makes more sense to take the allocation of expenses for these programs and apply them accordingly to the fleet. The trucks that are needed for coverage are the ones in the unproductive areas. They are already available. Just in the wrong place.
Keep in mind that this isn't a bash on Panther, but rather a observation that I see with many carriers.






Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Bama: What happened to the rose colored glasses???
 

bamamule

Seasoned Expediter
got bashed by someone and they put out some BS and got us shut down with a few companys no biggie will recover and try again some day
 

pelicn

Veteran Expediter
Dave said:
"As mentioned, they have made some great improvements in key areas, however the business and economic conditions are changing faster than they are reacting in some instances.
They need to work and administrate a much better relocation program, followed by a reallocation of personell to answer phones, help with relocation of vehicles to hot spots, and obtain opportunities/loads so both can benefit. No real cost as the people are already there."

The relocation system definitely needs work.
I don't understand the automated empty move system. You can be essentially pre-dispatched on your next load (made aware) and a few seconds after you send the depart consignee message, here comes this automated empty move message. That just doesn't make any sense.

Can anyone answer why Panther can't go to a system like the VRU at FedEx?

Also, the Wake Up Call messages...good grief, we've been rolling for a half hour or more and we'll get one of those. Sheesh!
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
The relocation system definitely needs work.
I don't understand the automated empty move system. You can be essentially pre-dispatched on your next load (made aware) and a few seconds after you send the depart consignee message, here comes this automated empty move message. That just doesn't make any sense.
==========================================
When you POD out of the first run, it generates your empty or suggested move. That part is automated. The system gets that message and responds as the second message would be your acceptance on the predispatched load.

One thing for sure, they need to spend time on providing EM's out of some of these areas that fill with trucks. We broker loads out of these areas but it makes little sense to have many trucks in some of these areas. They already have that system in place, they just need to use it much more effectively.














Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 
G

guest

Guest
For me is simple Panther is going public ..they need a nice image...everything is about money...250 mil :)

http://moneycentral.hoovers.com/global/msn/factsheet.xhtml?COID=150620

Maybe they gonna let the dispathers add their trucks like they did before...what they want is money I didn't see any improvements in the last 2 yrs..this is not expedite anymore...good look in your business but now is time for me to make some money...buy foreclosures in Michigan..I can make nore money and lot easier than sleeping in parking at WalMart :p
see you guys soon
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I personally think its getting way to automated instead of good ole fashioned contact and common sense. A dispatcher should more in tune with his companies calling patterns and move the fleet around more effectively. Its called work and thinking!!

EI: Why move eveyone to Atlanta when there are 2 customers in Macon?
or another If you have customers in say Gallatin Tn. and Bowling Green KY why sit in Nashville and not say Franklin KY??
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
That information looks to be pretty dated. You do have me scratching my head jumping from expediting to real estate. Plenty of good buys out there especially in Michigan, but I have to wonder who would buy?














Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 
G

guest

Guest
try realtor.com look for bank owned properties you'll be surprised
 
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