Panther Squuezing fixed fsc??
- Thread starter hondaking38
- Start date
It really doesn't matter what percentage of participation is involved, unless the sole purpose is for Panther to make the most amount of money it can from the flat FSC program. I saw the actual numbers at Con-Way, and it's a significant advantage for the house. More loads will have a higher FSC than the flat rate pays out.
But, it's on an individual truck basis when all is said and done. An individual truck on a flat rate will be paid the same rate even though some of those loads will have more FSC than is paid out, and some will have less than is paid out. With that truck, it all evens out, and no FSC money will have to be taken from another truck to make up any deficits, as that will have come from the loads that pay more than the flat rate.
The higher the pecentage of trucks that are on the flat rate just means there is more left over in the kitty at the end of the day. Of course, that also would mean there is more available for bonuses and stuff, in the unlikely event that they would do that.
I love it when they say there's no extra money in the load to cover a $25 bonus for excessive deadhead or something, and then get to the shipper and see the fax of the line haul bill that shows the customer is paying a grand for the load, while I'm getting paid $325 to haul it. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, sometimes I even purr.
But, it's on an individual truck basis when all is said and done. An individual truck on a flat rate will be paid the same rate even though some of those loads will have more FSC than is paid out, and some will have less than is paid out. With that truck, it all evens out, and no FSC money will have to be taken from another truck to make up any deficits, as that will have come from the loads that pay more than the flat rate.
The higher the pecentage of trucks that are on the flat rate just means there is more left over in the kitty at the end of the day. Of course, that also would mean there is more available for bonuses and stuff, in the unlikely event that they would do that.
I love it when they say there's no extra money in the load to cover a $25 bonus for excessive deadhead or something, and then get to the shipper and see the fax of the line haul bill that shows the customer is paying a grand for the load, while I'm getting paid $325 to haul it. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, sometimes I even purr.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Turtle, you sure that "warm and fuzzy" isn't just a warm "stream" running down your laeg matting the hair on your leg, and the purrrrr is nothing more the the relief of a less full bladder!?!?!? 
hehe It's all good. I signed a contract to haul for a certain rate, knowing full well that many loads would have paid significantly more if I were on a percentage of those loads. Then again I also know that carriers who pay a percentage will skim that like crazy and filter it through various in-house brokerages to get the percentage paid down to whatever gets the load accepted. There are loads that I haul for Panther were I actually get far more than what, for example, a 62% percentage contract would have paid for the load. There just aren't as many of those loads as there are the ones where the house has the advantage.
Just like in Vegas, the house always has the advantage. Sometimes ya win, sometimes ya lose, mostly ya lose. I know that going in. It's all a matter of minimizing the losses in order to make anything.
Just like in Vegas, the house always has the advantage. Sometimes ya win, sometimes ya lose, mostly ya lose. I know that going in. It's all a matter of minimizing the losses in order to make anything.
Amen Brother Turtle! And always take advantage of any deadhead, empty move and bonus you can. The odds are in favor of the house but that doesn't mean you can't count the cards, work the percentages and win some of the time.
easyrider2697
Expert Expediter
Top right hand corner of this page gives the national average ( gas and diesel) and I should be pretty close to the MPG by common sense...the rest is pretty simple..its called a calculator.
If you disagree with my numbers please let us hear your version.
The mpg's are high. I think Con-Way's model was based on 12 mpg for a cargo van and used the weekly national average of diesel fuel for all size vehicles regardless of whether the vehicle used diesel or gasoline. Panther's model is similar although they may be using 14 mpg for a van. I don't recall.
warlordblee
Seasoned Expediter
Sounds like a smart move to sign on with Panther.
I would say yes, it has been a good move for us so far. The load our one truck is on is paying .56 a miles FSC.
12 MPG average for a Diesel Cargo Van sound like a good deal to the O/O to me. As far as 3-6 months back up ask any Recruiter and he/she will tell you, you will be rolling in money within two weeks, maybe three at tops.
Panther's fixed fuel surcharge is currently .26 cents per mile. Why is express-1's surcharge about .21 cents per mile. Well, because express 1 does not calculate their fuel surcharge beased on the national average, they calculate it based on "the midwest average!" As if none of their trucks ever leave the midwest. lol. It's all a scam man. If I was with panther, i'd take my chances with the variable rate FSC and be a happy camper. Out of every carrier that i've personally been with, panther seems to give the driver the best percentage of the FSC; even when it is fixed. You can say a lot of bad things about the cat, but in the area of fuel surcharges, the cat has it right.
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Actually E-1's FSC this week is now .20 and it does me quite well....don't need any more then that as the .20 covers ALL thats 100% of my fuel....maybe C/V's aren't so lucky but Sprinters do well.....ahhh for competition..eh?
U.S. .....Average....$4.023
Midwest Average....$3.973
However...since we do all 48 states we should be on the National Average.
You are right OVM. Look, i'm not in any way trying to bash Express-1 here, but i'm going to throw out a real life situation. I delivered a load for Caterpiller for Express-1 and the FSC was 21 cents per mile. The Panther driver, as well as the TriState driver's who had also delivered to the same facility were getting paid a 32 cent FSC. Now, does Express-1 also charge the same for the FSC as Panther and 3state, or are they going to undercut the FSC by 11 cents and snag the Cat contracts? Or do they take the remaining (11 cents) off the Cat FSC and move it over to the NLM loads that they "as well as every other carrier out there undercut" which have a low FSC just to keep us moving when things are slow, or when we are in areas where not very many customers are calling in loads? I mean, this is a good practice because it does take from the good customer to make up for the bad customer. But, do we really ever know what percentage of the actual FSC is being skimmed off the top? I'm just wondering how this is all going to play out.
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Fr8 Shaker
Veteran Expediter
One thing you have to look at also with panther is that the fsc quoted may not be the fsc received. Case in point. A friend of mine just did a 15 mile mini with a fsc of 2.12. A day after delivery panther adjusted it to .36 cents. after my buddy called and b itched they said thats all the customer pays and as he told panther, he didn't agree to the terms with the customer but with panther and you know who won that disagreement. It must be nice to be able to change the terms of an agreement after the fact. I wonder how that would work out if the driver changed the terms after the fact. Saying I know it was to deliver by 0500 but I changed it to 1700.
Mr. Shaker,
if a driver changes an agreement with Panther, Panther keeps the O/O Escrow. I know this from personal experience.
if a driver changes an agreement with Panther, Panther keeps the O/O Escrow. I know this from personal experience.
What are you refering to? The drivers contract? And if so, what kind of change are you talking about?
I have heard now thats heard...that E-1 claims at the end of the year when all is said and done...it all works out about even....
Yes they finaly broke my arms backwards.Although there have been several weeks where I did average a little more on the fsc.I have grown tired of the load offer saying .45 on a 1500 mile load and paid .15 on the final settelment.Sorry thats a 450.00 difference that,I otherwise would of not taken the load!!!
How could a company not no what a total of charges are?I mean they must quote the customer upfront all charges?Or do they just slip in a extra 675.00 charge and just hope they pay?I think I need something shipped!!Does Panther ship cars?
I think that charge of .45 fsc should be .10!!!!After all they need my company that much!!!!
How could a company not no what a total of charges are?I mean they must quote the customer upfront all charges?Or do they just slip in a extra 675.00 charge and just hope they pay?I think I need something shipped!!Does Panther ship cars?
I think that charge of .45 fsc should be .10!!!!After all they need my company that much!!!!
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The way fuel surcharges are billed to some of these customers would make you think the Three Stooges devised it all. One FSC for a van, another for a truck, everyone understands that, but some (many) customers have different fuel surcharges for weights, dimensions, where picked up, where delivered, time of day picked up or delivered, even different routing affects things with many customers. There are some who have one surcharge from a shipper to a consignee, and a different FSC from the same shipper if it goes to a different consignee.
It's nuts, and that's why the FSC is just an estimate when it's quoted in the load offer. Panther may do a lot of things that may or may not be questionable, but I do know, FOR SURE, that they do not play with the FSC. Whatever the customer pays, they pass it along, 100%, to the contractor.
The problems come when there is a bad quote, because someone picked the wrong FSC code, or there was a mistake in who the paying party was, a lot of reasons. It gets more complicated when the (alleged) purpose of the Load Receipt is the "We Pay What We Say" mantra, when, in fact, they don't in many cases. The Load Receipt has a disclaimer wide enough to drive an 18-wheeler through, yet "We Pay What We Say". Keep chanting it.
My answer to the reasons for the misquotes is quit making quoting mistakes, or Pay What You Say, I don't care which.
Now, understanding how the FSC works, in that it's yer basic complicated mess, I can forgive the actual paid-out FSC being off a little, even though quite honestly I shouldn't have to. It usually is off a little, but usually within a penny, two at most. It's when it's off by a nickel or more that I have a problem. If they are going to alter the agreed-to-terms to that degree, a simple phone call explaining it would certainly help ease the pistoffedness.
I do keep track of it weekly, monthly, and YTD, as each week the paid-out FSC will be different. More often than not, it's within a penny higher than what was quoted. Sometimes it pays out at significantly more than what was quoted. My most recent settlement includes one that was quoted at $.40, and paid at exactly $.40. That's rare. Another one was quoted at 41 cents and paid at 41.79 cents, which is about the normal amount of variation, but yet another was quoted at 52 cents and paid at 58.65 cents. That one makes up for the one the previous week where I was shorted a nickel.
To date I'm in the black on the FSC over/under. So while the significant shortages do stand out and can make one mad, in the long run you're probably making out better than you think you are.
It's nuts, and that's why the FSC is just an estimate when it's quoted in the load offer. Panther may do a lot of things that may or may not be questionable, but I do know, FOR SURE, that they do not play with the FSC. Whatever the customer pays, they pass it along, 100%, to the contractor.
The problems come when there is a bad quote, because someone picked the wrong FSC code, or there was a mistake in who the paying party was, a lot of reasons. It gets more complicated when the (alleged) purpose of the Load Receipt is the "We Pay What We Say" mantra, when, in fact, they don't in many cases. The Load Receipt has a disclaimer wide enough to drive an 18-wheeler through, yet "We Pay What We Say". Keep chanting it.
My answer to the reasons for the misquotes is quit making quoting mistakes, or Pay What You Say, I don't care which.
Now, understanding how the FSC works, in that it's yer basic complicated mess, I can forgive the actual paid-out FSC being off a little, even though quite honestly I shouldn't have to. It usually is off a little, but usually within a penny, two at most. It's when it's off by a nickel or more that I have a problem. If they are going to alter the agreed-to-terms to that degree, a simple phone call explaining it would certainly help ease the pistoffedness.
I do keep track of it weekly, monthly, and YTD, as each week the paid-out FSC will be different. More often than not, it's within a penny higher than what was quoted. Sometimes it pays out at significantly more than what was quoted. My most recent settlement includes one that was quoted at $.40, and paid at exactly $.40. That's rare. Another one was quoted at 41 cents and paid at 41.79 cents, which is about the normal amount of variation, but yet another was quoted at 52 cents and paid at 58.65 cents. That one makes up for the one the previous week where I was shorted a nickel.
To date I'm in the black on the FSC over/under. So while the significant shortages do stand out and can make one mad, in the long run you're probably making out better than you think you are.
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