Panther Pals
- Thread starter Moot
- Start date
Alot of factors come into play on swaps. At the time they are booking the load, they may not know exactly where it is going to swap. Sometimes they know, and sometimes they don't. Some swap locations are not 24/7 which is another issue.
The only time pay would drop on a load that I have seen is if it is a swap because of hours, breakdown, or other vehicle availability.
Any other item are adjusted accordingly. Might be added miles, extra stop, detention and the like. The Panther receipt program is a starting point on a load, not the finished version if something is added.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
The only time pay would drop on a load that I have seen is if it is a swap because of hours, breakdown, or other vehicle availability.
Any other item are adjusted accordingly. Might be added miles, extra stop, detention and the like. The Panther receipt program is a starting point on a load, not the finished version if something is added.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
I cannot imagine accepting a load without knowing where I was going and what the pay is. I realize the whole run info is available but as one of you stated a 700+ mile run turned into just over 200 ending in a less than desirable location. With us the plans and pay are finalized before the first leg is started.
easyrider2697
Expert Expediter
Falligator
Expert Expediter
I was just north of Charlotte about 180 miles into the load when they sent it over qc about the swap.
I have a problem with how swaps are handled also. As far as I am concerned the acceptance of a load offer which has been transmited on the QC is a contract. Any change in the number of miles constitutes a breach of that contract.
We on the council have been trying to get the company to fix this, but so far nothing has happened.
Road Hooligan
We on the council have been trying to get the company to fix this, but so far nothing has happened.
Road Hooligan
We seldom ever see one of these unless it is a breakdown or something. If we did ten last year it would be high. Simple solution to the problem. Turn the load down if they don't know where it will swap, or ask for a flat rate that isn't based on miles if they don't know. Additionally, if you know where the swap points are, ask for that flat rate to that milage location.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
I get so confused as to why one van can run an 800 mile load straight through and another van is forced into to swapping 200 miles into a 700 mile load.
I personally have run loads with total number of miles near 300 and then been offered a 800 or 900 mile run with additional deadhead. I turn these down because I know I can not safely complete them. Of course I get charged with a refusal.
Once when I asked about the refusal thing, I was told to accept the load. Safety would determine when and if a swap was to take place. Does that mean I could deadhead 100 miles to the pickup, then drive 50 miles loaded only to be told it is time to swap! Or drive all but the last 100 miles exhausted.
Every expedite load I haul, I do as if running in a marathon. I have a starting point and a finish line. Along the way I have benchmarks to measure my progress. I also have weather and traffic to deal with. Only I can decide when and where to rest safely.
I realize with Panther that setting up swaps can be difficult as they have no facilities of there own. My previous carrier had terminals from coast to coast and all transfers were arranged when accepting the load.
Do you FedEx people transfer at sister company terminals?
SWAP: To barter or exchange.
TRANSFER: To carry, send, etc. to another person or place.
I personally have run loads with total number of miles near 300 and then been offered a 800 or 900 mile run with additional deadhead. I turn these down because I know I can not safely complete them. Of course I get charged with a refusal.
Once when I asked about the refusal thing, I was told to accept the load. Safety would determine when and if a swap was to take place. Does that mean I could deadhead 100 miles to the pickup, then drive 50 miles loaded only to be told it is time to swap! Or drive all but the last 100 miles exhausted.
Every expedite load I haul, I do as if running in a marathon. I have a starting point and a finish line. Along the way I have benchmarks to measure my progress. I also have weather and traffic to deal with. Only I can decide when and where to rest safely.
I realize with Panther that setting up swaps can be difficult as they have no facilities of there own. My previous carrier had terminals from coast to coast and all transfers were arranged when accepting the load.
Do you FedEx people transfer at sister company terminals?
SWAP: To barter or exchange.
TRANSFER: To carry, send, etc. to another person or place.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Moot... you treat it as a marathon, and safety treats it as a relay.
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
60MPH
Expert Expediter
I suspect that this qc message is to protect the drivers so they get paid correctly if there is and acc. added to the load as others have stated here. I think it will also help you get paid correctly when the paying customer changes while you are under the load only happened 4 times in 5 1/2 years with them and only once to my benefit the worest one was a load I picked up in front royal VA. going to shakopee MN. load was offered at 1094 miles and a fsc of .25 cents a mile, cons was paying for the load. When I got paid 2 weeks later the load paid 989 miles and a fsc of .08 cents a mile when I called to complain they said the paying customer changed during transit and that this was the new rate because Dupont uses household miles and a crapy fsc "this is a van load if you are wondering" there was nothing I could do about it. I said my load when offered and excepted was 1094 miles and .25 fsc, and they said "how can you expect us to pay that much when Dupont did not even pay them that much for the whole load", I told them they were full of it and I left shortly after. If you had this Qc message they are doing now you might have legal grounds if you take the whole load and the paid miles change on it.
60 MPH ALL DAY-EVERY DAY
60 MPH ALL DAY-EVERY DAY
>I picked up in front royal VA. going to shakopee
>MN. load was offered at 1094 miles and a fsc of .25 cents a
>mile, cons was paying for the load. When I got paid 2 weeks
>later the load paid 989 miles and a fsc of .08 cents a mile
With this system you would be paid the 1094 miles. The fsc still would be a rip off because it is only an "estimate" but it would show the miles so that would have been covered. I think they should pay the fsc quoted and charge it back to the customer on the next load and the next and the next ad infinitum until it's paid. At least this new system protects the loaded miles. As I said, this mechanism protects the drivers. I can't understand anyone objecting, much less threatening to quit over it.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
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Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
>MN. load was offered at 1094 miles and a fsc of .25 cents a
>mile, cons was paying for the load. When I got paid 2 weeks
>later the load paid 989 miles and a fsc of .08 cents a mile
With this system you would be paid the 1094 miles. The fsc still would be a rip off because it is only an "estimate" but it would show the miles so that would have been covered. I think they should pay the fsc quoted and charge it back to the customer on the next load and the next and the next ad infinitum until it's paid. At least this new system protects the loaded miles. As I said, this mechanism protects the drivers. I can't understand anyone objecting, much less threatening to quit over it.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
None of your past performance is taken into account when "Safety" sets up these swaps. When it happened to me I had to deadhead 127 miles to pick up a load, then I was told I needed to take a 5 hour break during the 860 mile run. I QC'd safety at 1500 and said I'd take the break at 0030. At 2200 hours I received another legalized pro summary saying my agreed upon load was now 413 miles. I called to find out why and was told I didn't have enough time to make the run and take my 5 hour break.
Of course these computations are at 47mph and I was in a van on a freeway with a 70mph speed limit. As an aside, there are no FMSCA HOS rules for cargo vans (yet), but Panther insists on a 5 hour break (as long as they have available vans to accept the swap). If Panther were following the HOS rule to the letter it would be a 10 hour break.
As you said Turtle, you can't arbitrarily change a contract because you want to, I don't think its fair that Panther can. In my case that change resulted in a $400 loss out of pocket and has left me very uncomfortable in my business relationship with Panther.
Had they told me the load was going to have to be swapped, I probably would have taken it anyhow, but instead, they led me to believe I could do the entire run, then got sneaky about the swap, not even telling me, just sending a new pro summary.
grrr....
Of course these computations are at 47mph and I was in a van on a freeway with a 70mph speed limit. As an aside, there are no FMSCA HOS rules for cargo vans (yet), but Panther insists on a 5 hour break (as long as they have available vans to accept the swap). If Panther were following the HOS rule to the letter it would be a 10 hour break.
As you said Turtle, you can't arbitrarily change a contract because you want to, I don't think its fair that Panther can. In my case that change resulted in a $400 loss out of pocket and has left me very uncomfortable in my business relationship with Panther.
Had they told me the load was going to have to be swapped, I probably would have taken it anyhow, but instead, they led me to believe I could do the entire run, then got sneaky about the swap, not even telling me, just sending a new pro summary.
grrr....
pelicn
Veteran Expediter
We were on a load yesterday and when we got to the consignee it ended up being a lift gate service and hand unload. We notified dispatch, and got the ....
You have accepted the following rates
in relation to this PRO. As an
independent contractor, ........
message with the updated amounts for the hand unload /lift gate service.
It's another way to CYA when it comes to being paid for a service.
You have accepted the following rates
in relation to this PRO. As an
independent contractor, ........
message with the updated amounts for the hand unload /lift gate service.
It's another way to CYA when it comes to being paid for a service.
60MPH
Expert Expediter
I agree with you LDB I wish in nov. of last year they had this, I might of been paid the correct miles, this is not the only reason why I am not leased on to panther any longer. I did something on my part and I am no longer contracted to them "I was following the rules to closely and to literly" and it costed me my contract, this last rip-off with miles just added to the other stuff that was going on there. I got a TALKING TOO for calling payroll a bunch of thevies and I should be paid for what I am offered. I also got theatened at this time if I did not drop the issue "theatened to cut my contract for my behavior". The funning thing is I liked panther and would go back if they would have me, I made good money with them and I like the size of there customer base
joebob1_30132
Expert Expediter
Turtle is so on the money,this swap thing is bunk and a loophole an agreement is made at the time of the load offer,as an independent contractor you are the determiner of the ability to get the load done.. once offered ..i never was under Pii contract but if this swap thing is not in the origanal lease they cannot change the terms of an agreement .. they if they terminate the agreement with a swap and yopu leagallyhave the time to run they owe you and paying the other swaper is their problem...if this swap thing is in the lease and it is at their discression to use willynilly Id go a huntin for a new carrier.
Loads are not swapped unless there is definite doubt on getting it delivered legally otherwise. They have enough work to do without dealing with swaps so they aren't going to actively look for loads to swap out on a whim. It is definitely annoying when one has to swap and when they do they aren't always where you'd choose for them to swap if you had a choice. It's part of the business if you work for a carrier that isn't going to knowingly allow illegal operation.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
joebob1_30132
Expert Expediter
point taken leo but apparently there are swaps being done when it is not called for..Im not speaking of the obviously illeagal ones ..you missed the point..
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
As stated, they aren't just swapping loads that wouldn't make it legally. They're swapping vans for in-house reasons. To pick and choose... this load you can take 800 miles, that load you have to swap 450 out of 800, is bs. Five hour nap? Sounds like a babysitter telling a kid he's tired. I couldn't run under those conditions and keep my sanity. Knowledge overrides micromanagement.
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I don’t want to sound like I am bashing panther but I may be just doing that, so don’t get all defensive and complain about it.
The meaning of the words independent and contractor seem to be missed in this entire thread, I see a great defense for Panther but not for the contractor.
Maybe I am just critical for the years of real independent contracting and to me just to accept that they need a disclaimer clearly illustrate a very poor business practice and the company’s spin of their need to control every aspect of the contractor’s responsibility. The contract should be written to say so some of this in the first place, the expectations should be spelt out and discussed right from the start and there should be no disclaimers thrown in after the contract is signed to cover the companies a**.
See, also I find the FedEx court cases that have been going on, and reading the details of a few of these cases they are for the most part are what I perceive as panther’s overall relationship strategy with the contractors. From all I have read, all I have heard and seen, I am glad to be where I am at.
Estimate?
The first thing that comes to mind is this, if you accept the offer to pickup a box from company A and bring it to company B, then the offer should stand regardless of the negotiation that is going on behind your back and out of your control, there should not be an estimate of anything when that offer hits your QC – period. The company should eat the difference of any charges if they accept the responsibility to cover the load. FSC or what ever was estimated when they picked up the phone, take the lost and train their sales staff and their dispatchers better so not slam the contractors with a reduction in any payout for services rendered. As much as others would defend this practice they fail to actually come up with a legitimate reason, it is cheating the contractor who has done a service for the company as part of their contract and the company has failed to live up to their obligation. I have seen it in the IT industry too much with T&M work I have been brought into to fix.
The second thing that comes to mind is the cross docking issue, I think that this again is poor training and hand holding are issues, I know of two that were not a safety issue and there was no mitigating circumstances to force a contractor to cross dock the shipment, one made absolutely no sense at all – 520 mile run, sitting the weekend, 4 miles from the pickup and forced to cross dock the shipment 150 miles en route from the pickup – can someone explain that one to me because no one could explain it to the contractor. Planning within the dispatch group of a run should take place, in my opinion, before an offer is made, not after the fact. The inconsistencies that I have heard about this issue are such that it makes me wonder what is wrong with some people there. I know this happens at other companies, but not to the level I have heard for this one.
I agree with Moot, it just doesn’t make sense. AND moot, being a solo driver in a straight truck, I have not crossed docked much but I bet I would be with Panther.
I know that no one can answer this question but I am wondering what the overall refusal percentage per active fleet at any given moment is with Panther, with a large fleet I amguessing betting that is my be as low as 52%. It really should be around 70%.
The meaning of the words independent and contractor seem to be missed in this entire thread, I see a great defense for Panther but not for the contractor.
Maybe I am just critical for the years of real independent contracting and to me just to accept that they need a disclaimer clearly illustrate a very poor business practice and the company’s spin of their need to control every aspect of the contractor’s responsibility. The contract should be written to say so some of this in the first place, the expectations should be spelt out and discussed right from the start and there should be no disclaimers thrown in after the contract is signed to cover the companies a**.
See, also I find the FedEx court cases that have been going on, and reading the details of a few of these cases they are for the most part are what I perceive as panther’s overall relationship strategy with the contractors. From all I have read, all I have heard and seen, I am glad to be where I am at.
Estimate?
The first thing that comes to mind is this, if you accept the offer to pickup a box from company A and bring it to company B, then the offer should stand regardless of the negotiation that is going on behind your back and out of your control, there should not be an estimate of anything when that offer hits your QC – period. The company should eat the difference of any charges if they accept the responsibility to cover the load. FSC or what ever was estimated when they picked up the phone, take the lost and train their sales staff and their dispatchers better so not slam the contractors with a reduction in any payout for services rendered. As much as others would defend this practice they fail to actually come up with a legitimate reason, it is cheating the contractor who has done a service for the company as part of their contract and the company has failed to live up to their obligation. I have seen it in the IT industry too much with T&M work I have been brought into to fix.
The second thing that comes to mind is the cross docking issue, I think that this again is poor training and hand holding are issues, I know of two that were not a safety issue and there was no mitigating circumstances to force a contractor to cross dock the shipment, one made absolutely no sense at all – 520 mile run, sitting the weekend, 4 miles from the pickup and forced to cross dock the shipment 150 miles en route from the pickup – can someone explain that one to me because no one could explain it to the contractor. Planning within the dispatch group of a run should take place, in my opinion, before an offer is made, not after the fact. The inconsistencies that I have heard about this issue are such that it makes me wonder what is wrong with some people there. I know this happens at other companies, but not to the level I have heard for this one.
I agree with Moot, it just doesn’t make sense. AND moot, being a solo driver in a straight truck, I have not crossed docked much but I bet I would be with Panther.
I know that no one can answer this question but I am wondering what the overall refusal percentage per active fleet at any given moment is with Panther, with a large fleet I am