Panther Pals

[Moot]

Has anyone received one of these messages on the QC or via e-mail? After I accept a load I get this message.


You have accepted the following rates
in relation to this PRO. As an
independent contractor, it is your
responsibility to ensure these terms
are in accordance with your contract
and agreed upon terms with dispatch.
(Estimated terms are subject to change
based on paying customer contract.)

ESTIMATED MILES: 832
RPM: 0.80
OR FLAT RATE: 0.00
ESTIMATED FSC RPM:
ESTIMATED DH MILES:
DH RPM:
OR DH FLAT:
DISP: QC 08-14-07 14:39

Load may require a swap based on
meeting customer needs and to ensure
compliance with FMCSA regulations.
Rates will be changed accordingly.
Please contact dispatch with any
discrepancies. Please be safe.

 

[greg334]

Wow, disclaimers on Qualcom?

The lawyers have gotten into the system... must call a priest and get the an exorcism done.

 

[raynchk]

Yep. I got one for an 860 mile load, then when they decided to "swap" me I received another one for the same load -- this time for 413 miles. WTF? Why bother sending one in the first place if they just send you a different one when they choose to swap your load. What good are they?

Panther is going through some ugly changes right now and although I would like to stay, I'm being forced by this kind of bs to look around.

 

[cheri1122]

Did I read that right? Does it say that it's your responsibility to ensure the terms agree with your contract, and the dispatcher's offer, and then say "terms subject to change"?!
If it's going to change, why 'ensure' it?!

 

[RichM]

Wow Nasty stuff, watch and see if the rest of the carriers start coming with this disclaimer.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Hard to do it if there's no qualcomm.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

 

[LDB]

>You have accepted the following rates
>in relation to this PRO. As an
>independent contractor, it is your
>responsibility to ensure these terms
>are in accordance with your contract
>and agreed upon terms with dispatch.
>(Estimated terms are subject to change
>based on paying customer contract.)
>
>ESTIMATED MILES: 832
>RPM: 0.80
>OR FLAT RATE: 0.00
>ESTIMATED FSC RPM:
>ESTIMATED DH MILES:
>DH RPM:
>OR DH FLAT:
>DISP: QC 08-14-07 14:39
>
>Load may require a swap based on
>meeting customer needs and to ensure
>compliance with FMCSA regulations.
>Rates will be changed accordingly.
>Please contact dispatch with any
>discrepancies. Please be safe.

There is nothing ominous about this. If you discussed it on the phone with a dispatcher and were told there'd be a $50 bonus in it this will show it. If it doesn't, then before you do anything else, you can call back and get the dispatcher to update it to show your bonus. This is a mechanism to protect the truck from a forgetful dispatcher.

The disclaimer about change applies to the fsc which is predicated on the customer actually paying it when billed. It also applies to loads that may swap since you won't be paid the full run if it swaps.

One certainly can choose to stay or go however it is erroneous to claim Panther is forcing the looking. In this instance it's even something that protects the truck and is a positive for our side.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

But as stated earlier, they're making it an option for them to change what was agreed upon. Whatever they say the message means is irrelevant. What it tells me is that a customer can have them change the rules midstream. And that is a scary concept. Their lawyers need to do a little better in the wording.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

 

[highway star]

If there's going to be a swap, why wouldn't they just offer the driver the part he's going to do in the first place? Maybe they would rather tick off the driver by offering big miles and then taking it away? Doesn't make sense...

 

[Turtle]

Leo covered it. The "Estimated Terms" apply to those terms that are estimates, such as the FSC and the paid DH miles. The FSC presented to us at the time of the load offer always has been subject to the final billing with the customer, and it's almost always slightly different from that which was presented with the load offer. The load offer may state a FSC of $.21 per mile, and when the PRO pays out it may wind up being 21.23 or 20.95 cents. It's rarely off more or less than a penny.

The funny part about that message is that they tried to use legal language in the part about the swaps, and they failed miserably. "Load may require a swap based on meeting customer needs and to ensure compliance with FMCSA regulations."

In practice, legally, that's a screwup. Either/or, but very rarely and. Plus, with a van, there are precious few FMSCA regulations that would require a swap.

They're all about beating us over the head with our lease, and when it comes to swaps, I do the same to them. When they offer me a load I accept or reject the load based upon the load conditions presented. Once agreed upon, a contract has been entered into by both parties, and I am expected to live up to the contract. So are they. I can't change the conditions of the load acceptance after the fact without just cause. I've tried it, they won't let me.

If they offer me a load that will swap out, they had better tell me when they are trying to get me to commit to the load, instead of changing the conditions of the load after I've picked it up. Any change in the agreed upon conditions, i.e., swaps, FSC, first-outs, bonus, whatever, must be mutually agreed upon. If I'm not feeling well and don't want to finish the run, or if I break down, whatever, unless they agree to provide a swap for the load, it's still my responsibility to fulfill my end of the bargain and get the load delivered. The reverse is also true.

I'm not likely to accept a swap for a load that I've committed to without just cause. "Because I say so," ain't gonna cut it. If I can't deliver the load safely and on time, that's a just cause. If there have been multiple delays that would cut into my sleep, thereby making it a problem to deliver it safely, much less on time, that's a just cause. But just because someone less than competent thinks I can't deliver the load safely and on time is not just cause enough, particularly when I know differently.

It might be different if I had ever given them a reason to think I might be late, even once. But I never have been, not even once. Not even for something that wasn't my fault.

Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop

 

[pelicn]

We're getting these now too and it's no big deal. We just ensure everything that's been offered is listed, and if it's not, we make sure dispatch updates it before we pick up the load.

 

[Moot]

I never saw one until last week. Then every load I accepted came with the QC and e-mail version.

 

[fastrod]

There are no estimated terms in my company. I give the customer a rate that includes a fuel surcharge and get a rate confirmation sheet that is signed by myself and the customer. This way I know what I am getting paid before the van moves. Fsc which is predicated on the customer actually paying it when billed is a funny way of doing business, but then that is your money, not the companys money that we are talking about. This is just another example of why I am not leased to a carrier.

 

[pelicn]

Moot, there was a message that came over the QC about them starting this thing about 2 weeks ago I think. I wasn't sure what they were talking about until these messages started.
We don't get them in email, just over the QC. Wonder if that's because we're just lowly drivers not owners?

 

[Moot]

Pelicn, I missed the original QC announcement, must have been OOS. Thanks for clearing that up. I got a bit paranoid when that message showed up a second time. Then I found it in my e-mail. Ooooh, scary potatoes!

 

[LDB]

As Turtle explained, the fsc estimate given at load offer is just that, an estimate. It is always given in 1 cent increments. The customer pays $xx.xx for yyy loaded miles. That usually always works out in my favor to the 27cpm fsc actually paying me 27.xx cpm. Once in a while it's only 26.xx but overall I come out a fraction higher than expected.

The other possibly major issue is swapping. If I get caught on I75 for 8 hours because the highway is closed due to a wreck (which has happened twice in my career) that screws everything up. My nice 412 mile run is now impossible under HOS and I have to swap. There is no way in this or any other universe that could have been planned into the run and the pay listed in the message. My $50 bonus (for example purposes) still applies and because it's listed in the email there's no argument. I still get paid my full rate even though it was a van load and because it's listed in the email there's no argument.

This is an item that does far more to protect us than to benefit Panther. For anyone to consider leaving the company over this is something I can't understand. For those with other carriers, I understand the objection to Qualcomm etc. but that isn't the issue or the topic of this discussion.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[ATeam]

> There are no estimated terms in my company. I give the
>customer a rate that includes a fuel surcharge and get a
>rate confirmation sheet that is signed by myself and the
>customer. This way I know what I am getting paid before the
>van moves.

With us at FedEx, I cannot remember a time when the pay we agreed to was cut during the load, but there have been many times when it was increased. That happens when detention time gets added, the delivery turns into a lift gate load that was not anticipated at first, labor or an inside delivery becomes necessary, a road is closed due to construction or an accident and the miles are adjusted to account for the re-route, or a HAZMAT load requires taking a bypass around a city or tunnel that was not built into the offer when we accepted it.

Such an adjustment happned most recently when we agreed to a surface expedite HAZMAT load, arrived at the shipper, and found the HAZMAT is something only HAZMAT-trained White Glove drivers are qualified to haul. That was no problem since we have those credentials. The pay was bumped up on the spot to cover the difference.

I was glad to get the extra money. It helps offset the doctor bills for treating this wierd, basketball-size tumor that developed under my left arm shortly after the delivery.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

"I was glad to get the extra money. It helps offset the doctor bills for treating this wierd, basketball-size tumor that developed under my left arm shortly after the delivery."

Phil... how'd your head end up under your left arm??? :7 :7 :7

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

 

[Moot]

Phil, welcome to the human race. You DO have a sense of humor! Now didn't that feel good. I'm sure some over sensitive Euphorian will blast you for making light of tumors and going off topic. Oh well. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Falligator]

I drive for panther also and have been getting those messages. My luck on one pro wasn't very good after getting a 738 mile load to Flint, Mi which I p/u in Cheraw, SC they switched the load on me after only 209 mi. I had slept all night so i had hours to run it but i was more mad b/c they switched me out in Wytheville, VA. would have never taken the load if i knew that was the switch spot. Granted there are other factors in determining the switch but i thought wytheville is a very bad location. I still had a good week but I had to dh back to charlotte in order to get another load.



ShawnF
panther
o/o
11997