panther and owners pulling trucks out

morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
whats going on???
I am seeing less and less panther trucks out here...... right now im near Toledo , and checking the boards here.
there are like 1 or 2 available trucks in a 300 or more radious... with ZERO .. in route.
zero on chicago boards
1 in langsing/romulis
1 in akron ...
zero in indy
zero in ft wayne.....
i am hearing from other drivers .. about a couple large fleet owners pulling there trucks out of panther.

in the pass 3 months i have took on a team driver....... we are NOT seeing the miles as a team as we figured on.. i am getting same pay as if i was solo and have more stress teaming.. i cant handle this much longer. I dont need a stress heart attack.
i well my team partner and i both feel like quitting and have been looking at other avenues.
she is getting ideas of buying a truck... and a cargo van...

any thoughts ......................
 

usafk9

Veteran Expediter
Yes, a couple come to mind.

First, your partner: If the miles aren't there, the last thing I would be doing is trying to buy a truck. You were on EO a few months back stating that the miles just weren't there for a solo in a straight at the Cat. I'm assuming that's why the partner. If the miles aren't rosy in either scenario, I would definitely not be laying out cash for a truck.

That said, what are the qualifications? Do you run Canada? Do you do Haz-Mat? Do you go to NYC? What special equipment does the truck have? Liftgate? What's the weight capacity? The more of all of the above, the better.

Before I'd look to leaving your present carrier, I'd look to be solving those things. Next, I'd get with DaveKC or Bruno, and find out how to book your own loads. If you DO do that, I would also be playing "Let's Make a Deal" with your truck's owner over the cost of load board access and your per centage of the self-booked loads, as you're going to be doing some of the work your carrier is doing right now. I'm assuming that you drive for an owner. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Last, I would think long and hard about leaving, like rats jumping off a sinking ship. Just because others do, doesn't mean it's right for you. Changing carriers is probably real expensive for a truck owner or driver, just given the income interruption. I would be asking people who believe they are successful with the Cat to PM you with what you could be doing differently.
 

ntimevan

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
LAREDO, TX. over a week ago when i was down there. At the TA there was like 12 to 15 PANTHER str8 trucks parked there. On my way out I seen another 8 to 10 panther str8 s heading towards Laredo.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
The pendulum swings....over the years I've seen fleets come and then go....By the look of the Load 1 yard there seems to be an exodus of Fedex trucks as well....
 

morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Yes, a couple come to mind.

First, your partner: If the miles aren't there, the last thing I would be doing is trying to buy a truck. You were on EO a few months back stating that the miles just weren't there for a solo in a straight at the Cat. I'm assuming that's why the partner. If the miles aren't rosy in either scenario, I would definitely not be laying out cash for a truck.

That said, what are the qualifications? Do you run Canada? Do you do Haz-Mat? Do you go to NYC? What special equipment does the truck have? Liftgate? What's the weight capacity? The more of all of the above, the better.

Before I'd look to leaving your present carrier, I'd look to be solving those things. Next, I'd get with DaveKC or Bruno, and find out how to book your own loads. If you DO do that, I would also be playing "Let's Make a Deal" with your truck's owner over the cost of load board access and your per centage of the self-booked loads, as you're going to be doing some of the work your carrier is doing right now. I'm assuming that you drive for an owner. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Last, I would think long and hard about leaving, like rats jumping off a sinking ship. Just because others do, doesn't mean it's right for you. Changing carriers is probably real expensive for a truck owner or driver, just given the income interruption. I would be asking people who believe they are successful with the Cat to PM you with what you could be doing differently.

.. very interesting feed back.. ty :)

well i been solo for 6 yrs with panther...... and yes we drive for a owner.
i had haz mat.... it expired last yr , took test 2x , and flunked.. lol . *sigh*
been slacking at taking another shot at the it...
yes.... i have a inhanced lisense and have been going to canada....
new co driver..... can not at this time. stil waiting to hear about fast card , which she has applied for bk in aug.
so at the present ..... NO .. not going to canada at this time. i do miss going there.. cuz it gave me some time at the house.. seeing I live in Buffalo ..... haha..
i hate going to NYC/NJ.. but have now and then .... depends on bucks for tolls and reienburstments..... * excuse my spelling* ...
I know . what i was doing driving solo...
my co driver on the other hand ..... seems to be overly inpatient, is stressing over sitting , ... instead of finding things to do , like read, and such.... i like to paint.
listen to music..
she is still learning this expediting stuff. has come across solo drivers , owning there own trucks/vans and saying its better if you own one. and dont have to answer to anyone.
i am encouraging her to come here and read the topics.... she has Dave's number....
im trying to give her all the insight i know. about all this.. but i guess she is needing to hear it from others.

and come to think of it.... less trucks with panther . could mean more loads deals for us...
but why are owners getting away from panther?? I know i have my rounds sometimes with the dispatchers.

i been hearing good things about all state express...
and now i am seeing adds for cargo van and str8 truck contracters over at US Express???
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
All those trucks leaving FedEx sure seem to be helping OUR business.

That was my point Joe...less competition within the fleet...But on the flipside...the DH tends to climb as they will chase you further to cover a load....so there is a fine line...
 

morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
LAREDO, TX. over a week ago when i was down there. At the TA there was like 12 to 15 PANTHER str8 trucks parked there. On my way out I seen another 8 to 10 panther str8 s heading towards Laredo.

haha...... we almost feel victim to Lordeo a week ago....
found out there were that many trucks heading there before us... turned down the load.
and wasnt sure if that was a good idea or not..... but paying for our own fuel was concernd about DH out of there....
soo is everyone staying south??? afraid of a lil snow or what???
panther seems to be having a shortage of trucks in the north for a while now.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
That was my point Joe...less competition within the fleet...But on the flipside...the DH tends to climb as they will chase you further to cover a load....so there is a fine line...

Well, as to the DH, 2+ per mile, empty or loaded, makes no difference to me. In fact, I make more PROFIT running empty, DHing to a pick up, than loaded.
 

morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Well, as to the DH, 2+ per mile, empty or loaded, makes no difference to me. In fact, I make more PROFIT running empty, DHing to a pick up, than loaded.

oh?? how so ???
panther pays us for dh.... sometimes more depending how far we have to go and the loaded miles being way less ..
there is no sur charge for dh miles..
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
oh?? how so ???
panther pays us for dh.... sometimes more depending how far we have to go and the loaded miles being way less ..
there is no sur charge for dh miles..


It is all in how you account your money. Here is how we look at what a run pays. A couple of examples below:

Sitting at a shipper, no DH, 1000 loaded miles, pays $2000.00. That is $2 per mile.

Sitting 500 miles from shipper, DH 500 miles, truck is empty, higher fuel mileage, 500 miles loaded. Pays $2000.00. That load pays $2 per mile. All other things being equal, we make more PROFIT on this load than the first.

We look at the overall miles, the weight of the load, reefer non reefer, where it picks up, where it delivers, on ALL load offers. Where the load picks up is a determining factor on if we will DH a long way there. If the load cancels and we just DH 500 miles to Timbucktoo then we are in trouble. SO, we do not DH long miles to bad areas. IF it is a long DH to a GOOD freight area, we take it. Then, if it cancels, we are in a better position for another load.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
whats going on???
I am seeing less and less panther trucks out here....

... i am hearing from other drivers .. about a couple large fleet owners pulling there trucks out of panther.

... in the pass 3 months i have took on a team driver....... we are NOT seeing the miles as a team as we figured on.. i am getting same pay as if i was solo and have more stress teaming.

... i cant handle this much longer. I dont need a stress heart attack.

.... i well my team partner and i both feel like quitting and have been looking at other avenues.

You are citing quantitative (numbers) and qualitative (emotions) factors. If I was in your shoes, I would want to get better information. Yes, you are seeing fewer trucks but has the fleet actually declined in size? Try to find out what the actual fleet count is and how that compares to the past.

It has been reported here in the Open Forum that Expediter Services trucks have moved from Panther to FedEx. How many trucks? Why did they leave? What does that say about Panther? Are other fleet owners doing the same? If so, why or why not? What does your fleet owner believe is going on at Panther now? What are his or her intentions regarding the company? Does a decline in fleet size mean more freight for me, or has the company lost important customers leaving less freight for the remaining trucks?

Those are the kind of questions I would want to answer before making a carrier change decision.

The quantitative numbers you can be most certain about and that are easiest to know are your revenue and miles. You have already stated that both have declined. Take a good, hard look at your numbers again, and then your behavior. What were your numbers a year ago? What, if anything, are you doing different that may explain the change?

What about the runs themselves? Compared to a year ago, are you getting longer or shorter runs? Are they more frequent or less? Has the pay changed? If so, in what way?

Note that emotions can affect judgement. There is something called cognitive bias. When you develop feelings for or against a company, you tend to magnify the importance of information that confirms your feelings and minimize or reject information that does not support how you feel.

Say you are on your way to a pick up and the load cancels. If you have a positive view of the company it will be "Oh well, that's expediting. This happens to everyone." If you are feeling mad or otherwise negative toward the company, it will be, "SEE! SEE! See how those people are!!! This happens all the time! They don't give a **** about me! I hate this. The stress is too much!"

How important is the canceled load really? To know that, you have to know how often it really does happen. That's where high-quality quantitative information is important.

When you are feeling stress and considering a carrier change or new career, it is important to get as clear as you possibly can about how you actually feel and why (qualitative), and about what is actually happening (quantitative). The more clear you are in each area, the better your decision will be.

It sucks to be unhappy with your carrier and/or circumstances but it is exciting too. It is a time when you can look deep inside yourself and ask, what do I want really? Clearly, something is wrong now. What's going on? Why am I unhappy? Why is this not working? What are my options and where what can I do right now to make things better? Do I really need to change carriers or carriers, or do I only need to change my mind?
 
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morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
... ok here is what our last load we just came off of was about......

we DH 70 miles .. around Ga, and took a load... 577 to langly air force base.. that was exciting.. lol soo em over a lil bit closer to petersburg VA ... hung out there for the day...
my teamer was getting yancy about the area,, no loads lined up for us to get etc.. *sigh*
i keep telling her we will get a load soon...
ok one comes up......
DH, 321 miles
offering us $1 a mile...
loaded miles was, 264 .. to Findley Ohio...

i jumped on it.. my team partner wasnt sure about it..( grumbling about it all ) cuz of fuel , and such .. and i had to re asure her a couple times it will put us in a huge frieght area, being in Ohio and all plus almost zero trucks in a 300 mile radious here as of this morning.
we have another load ... picking up later tonight and going over near davenport.
i know we will keep busy in this area.
unless we get a load sending us futher out of it.

what are thoughts on Fla??
we had a couple Fla offers last week but didnt take them ... cuz of getting stuck down there and alot of EM miles getting bk to a load area.
if we had some great loads in the past couple weeks and doing well..... we would of took a fla load.... id love to be able to hit a beach there for a day. heh
gulf coast is my favorite for beach walking .. :)
 
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morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
You are citing quantitative (numbers) and qualitative (emotions) factors. If I was in your shoes, I would want to get better information. Yes, you are seeing fewer trucks but has the fleet actually declined in size? Try to find out what the actual fleet count is and how that compares to the past.

It has been reported here in the Open Forum that Expediter Services trucks have moved from Panther to FedEx. How many trucks? Why did they leave? What does that say about Panther? Are other fleet owners doing the same? If so, why or why not? What does your fleet owner believe is going on at Panther now? What are his or her intentions regarding the company? Does a decline in fleet size mean more freight for me, or has the company lost important customers leaving less freight for the remaining trucks?

Those are the kind of questions I would want to answer before making a carrier change decision.

The quantitative numbers you can be most certain about and that are easiest to know are your revenue and miles. You have already stated that both have declined. Take a good, hard look at your numbers again, and then your behavior. What were your numbers a year ago? What, if anything, are you doing different that may explain the change?

What about the runs themselves? Compared to a year ago, are you getting longer or shorter runs? Are they more frequent or less? Has the pay changed? If so, in what way?

Note that emotions can affect judgement. There is something called cognitive bias. When you develop feelings for or against a company, you tend to magnify the importance of information that confirms your feelings and minimize or reject information that does not support how you feel.

Say you are on your way to a pick up and the load cancels. If you have a positive view of the company it will be "Oh well, that's expediting. This happens to everyone." If you are feeling mad or otherwise negative toward the company, it will be, "SEE! SEE! See how those people are!!! This happens all the time! They don't give a **** about me! I hate this. The stress is too much!"

How important is the canceled load really? To know that, you have to know how often it really does happen. That's where high-quality quantitative information is important.

When you are feeling stress and considering a carrier change or new career, it is important to get as clear as you possibly can about how you actually feel and why (qualitative), and about what is actually happening (quantitative). The more clear you are in each area, the better your decision will be.

It sucks to be unhappy with your carrier and/or circumstances but it is exciting too. It is a time when you can look deep inside yourself and ask, what do I want really? Clearly, something is wrong now. What's going on? Why am I unhappy? Why is this not working? What are my options and where what can I do right now to make things better? Do I really need to change carriers or carriers, or do I only need to change my mind?

i do have them ?? ..... and am checking into them for answer's best i can at this time.
im not bragging but .. i do have a very strong work ethic with panther.
my on time and acceptance numbers are very high.
my safty record is very high.

since i have aquired a new team driver and someone i know well... my stres level has shot way high.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
You do not have to answer these questions in public. I offer them only as food for thought. If your co-driver is the source of stress, there may be nothing wrong with Panther at all. That's where sorting things out can help.
 
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60MPH

Expert Expediter
Stay out of the midwest, Panther has the freight to keep u moving as a team str8. The midwest was good for you as a solo do to HOS, but now that you are a team the whole US and Canada (when you co-driver gets qualified) is open for business. Being from Buffalo means you ain't skeered of the snow which is a good thing. Plenty of freight from them running from N.E. to the west coast and a most places in between.

If I was on with the cat I would stay out of the midwest except for northern IL., WI. and MN. I would also stay out of Laredo unless I booked my own freight, which I do. Gotta get that Haz-mat back and do the NYC and your team should make good money.

Good luck the freight and money are there you just gotta think outside of the box (midwest;)). Happy trails
 

morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
thanx everyone .. all the info and thoughts here has been helpful .. :)
my new co driver has a lot to learn in the expediting field....
i am encouraging her to join this site , and that it should be very helpful for her to read and talk to other drivers/owners... and hopfully get a grip on things with a better perspective.
 

morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Stay out of the midwest, Panther has the freight to keep u moving as a team str8. The midwest was good for you as a solo do to HOS, but now that you are a team the whole US and Canada (when you co-driver gets qualified) is open for business. Being from Buffalo means you ain't skeered of the snow which is a good thing. Plenty of freight from them running from N.E. to the west coast and a most places in between.

If I was on with the cat I would stay out of the midwest except for northern IL., WI. and MN. I would also stay out of Laredo unless I booked my own freight, which I do. Gotta get that Haz-mat back and do the NYC and your team should make good money.

Good luck the freight and money are there you just gotta think outside of the box (midwest;)). Happy trails


i have a CDL hand book on the truck guess will have to do some more studying on the haz thingie.... *sigh* i hate haz loads.. sorry :( .. money or not.. just feel uuncomfy with them.

booking frieght...... well i have done that in the pass. with back haul dept. If it means me doing a load.. for a lil less and at least paying towards fuel to get me out of there.
but i drive for a owner and wel he frowns on back haul loads.
sometimes.. im thinking of just booking one anyways, to get me out of a bad area.
i fugure if it helps with fuel cost ..... and gets me to a better area.... why not! right?
we have access to . get loaded, landstar, and a couple other logistic load boards.
 
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