On the Democrat side...

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
And what if one was on a load and had to make a delivery, but was stuck in traffic for hours. Diverted off the highway and detoured the long way around. Those glorious protesters. :D
the price you pay for living in this great country and the laws you purport to support..the right to assembly and protest....
or just support the constitution and rights when it doesn't inconvience you?...
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
yes they can protest "OUTSIDE" the venue.....however heckling has always been around and hecklers in in the British Parliamentary system are ejected...
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well......do we KNOW they are paid protestors, or is it possible they are people from the left that are as angry as many on the right are?
Are the all paid? Of course not. Are some of them paid? Absolutely. Both political parties do it. Most often, the organizers of the protests are paid to organize them. They are paid by Super PACs and other donors. We've seen Trump protesters arrive in chartered buses they did not pay for, and we've seen them being given free lunches. We've also seen political organizations send paid staffers to protest, so they were getting paid to work while they were protesting, instead.

As far as I know the only claim that they were paid protestors comes from Trump. The same source that bought us to realize that thousands of Muslims were cheering in Jersey when the towers came down.
You do realize that Trump was vindicated on that, right? Numerous contemporaneous reports from the likes the Washington Post, The New York Post, WCBS New York, even MTV News, in addition to police reports filed at the time all prove there were, in fact, Muslims celebrating on the rooftops in Patterson, NJ and elsewhere when 9/11 happened.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
And what if one was on a load and had to make a delivery, but was stuck in traffic for hours. Diverted off the highway and detoured the long way around. Those glorious protesters. :D
the price you pay for living in this great country and the laws you purport to support..the right to assembly and protest....
or just support the constitution and rights when it doesn't inconvience you?...
The right to peaceably assemble and protest doesn't usurp the rights of others to access the public highways.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Inside a venue they are called hecklers and can be escorted out to the protester area outside the venue....
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
When hecklers drown out or silence a speaker, it's known as a "heckler's veto," a term coined ironically by a professor at the University of Chicago.

In a strict legal sense (and in fact), the Heckler's Veto is when the government suppresses the speaker because of the possibility of a violent reaction by hecklers or a violent reaction by the crowd incited by the hecklers. It is the government that vetoes the speech, because of the reaction of the heckler. Under the First Amendment, this kind of heckler's veto is explicitly unconstitutional. In US case law the rulings regarding the heckler's veto is somewhat mixed, but most findings say that the speaker's actions cannot be pre-emptively stopped due to fear of heckling by the hecklers, but when faced with imminent violence authorities can force the speaker to cease their action in order to satisfy the hecklers. But that doesn't mean the hecklers can't be arrested and prosecuted for a wide variety of charges, including disturbing the peace, inciting violence, and for conspiracy.

Most people would agree that vocal protests outside a speaking venue, and quiet protest (leaflets, for example, or holding up signs) inside, are fine, but draw the line at interrupting speakers. Such behavior is not only incredibly rude, it is intolerable. Freedom of speech is among the most fundamental, and among the most cherished, of the bedrock values our nation is built upon. A great nation, free and independent, depends utterly on the free exchange of ideas. It is absolutely critical. This is non-negotiable. Those who attempt to suppress the rights of others violate core principles that are the foundation of any free society. The layman's heckler's veto is little more than verbal terrorism, and reeks of gross intolerance.

We cannot allow such behavior. In fact, the more strongly you disagree with an idea, the more strongly you should protect its display. Otherwise, all it takes is for someone louder or more powerful than you to disagree with what you have to say. Protests about controversial subjects is part of our culture and part of our foundation. But so is being a place and culture where all points of view can be expressed and heard. There are ways to protest that respects free speech and allows people with opposing views to be heard. Being rude to a speaker, drowning out and attempting to silencing opposing ideas is not among of them.
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
When hecklers drown out or silence a speaker, it's known as a "heckler's veto," a term coined ironically bu a professor at the University of Chicago.

In a strict legal sense (and in fact), the Heckler's Veto is when the government suppresses the speaker because of the possibility of a violent reaction by hecklers or a violent reaction by the crows incited by the hecklers. It is the government that vetoes the speech, because of the reaction of the heckler. Under the First Amendment, this kind of heckler's veto is explicitly unconstitutional. In US case law the rulings regarding the heckler's veto is somewhat mixed, but most findings say that the speaker's actions cannot be pre-emptively stopped due to fear of heckling by the hecklers, but when faced with imminent violence authorities can force the speaker to cease their action in order to satisfy the hecklers. But that doesn't mean the hecklers can't be arrested and prosecuted for a wide variety of charges, including disturbing the peace, inciting violence, and for conspiracy.

Most people would agree that vocal protests outside a speaking venue, and quiet protest (leaflets, for example, or holding up signs) inside, are fine, but draw the line at interrupting speakers. Such behavior is not only incredibly rude, it is intolerable. Freedom of speech is among the most fundamental, and among the most cherished, of the bedrock values our nation is built upon. A great nation, free and independent, depends utterly on the free exchange of ideas. It is absolutely critical. This is non-negotiable. Those who attempt to suppress the rights of others violate core principles that are the foundation of any free society. The layman's heckler's veto is little more than verbal terrorism, and reeks of gross intolerance.

We cannot allow such behavior. In fact, the more strongly you disagree with an idea, the more strongly you should protect its display. Otherwise, all it takes is for someone louder or more powerful than you to disagree with what you have to say. Protests about controversial subjects is part of out culture and part of our foundation. But so is being a place and culture where all points of view can be expressed and heard. There are ways to protest that respects free speech and allows people with opposing views to be heard. Being rude to a speaker, drowning out and attempting to silencing opposing ideas is not among of them.
I 100% concur.....:)
people should know the difference between the 2....weird the media doesn;t pick up on this...
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The mainstream media do pick up on it, but how they report it or react to it depends on which side is doing the heckling. Notice how they currently cover the hecklers at Trump rallies, compared to the way they covered the Tea Party, their rallies and their protests several years ago.

Regarding the Heckler's Veto, it's worth noting that this practice is quite common at colleges and universities all over the country right now. Not only is it tolerated by college administrators, but also encouraged by a large percentage of faculty members. Our institutions of higher learning are the antithesis of the free and open exchange of ideas; conservative thought and principles are not deemed worthy of consideration.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Won't be one next year either. Obama wants his pay lifted that he gets for life with other presidents before he leaves. Somebody has to pay for that.
That's not actually true. The part about somebody having to pay for it is, but not the other part. Ya gotta love how it's being interpreted and spun from the far right Blogs (including Fox News), though. The headlines read:

Obama Hikes Post-Presidency Payments
Massive Pay Raise for Obama - For Life!

Obama seeks hike in post-presidency payments

Then at the beginning of the articles they generally set it up with something like:

"President Obama sought to increase the amount of money available for the federal government to spend on former presidents in advance of his White House exit."

Setting the context so as to frame the reader's mind, they then go on to explain in quasi detail the report released by the Congressional Research Service, even quoting the salient parts of the report, and saying how Obama's 2017 budget proposes a nearly 18 percent hike (gasp!) in appropriations for expenditures of former presidents, of which one he is soon to be. Mad yet?

This, of course, is all because of the the Former Presidents Act, enacted in 1958, which provides living former presidents with a pension, office staff and support, office space, printing, funds for travel, Secret Service protection, and mailing privileges. It also provides benefits for presidential spouses. Currently, former presidents are awarded a pension equal to the salary of cabinet secretaries, which totaled $203,700 for the 2015 calendar year and was increased by $2,000 for 2016.

These expenses, like all the rest of them, must be in the budget. For FY2016, appropriations of $3,277,000 for expenditures for former Presidents, which was an increase of $25,000 from FY2015 appropriated levels, mainly due to increased cost in equipment, communications and office space. Of course, that $3,277,000 is for all four former presidents, which averages out to $819,250 per former president.

The [intended] perception is that Obama seeks to, and in fact has budgeted, an increase of 18% for the $819,250 per former president, meaning he along with the others would be getting $147,465 extra, or $966,715 total per year each. But that's not what has happened. He budgeted an 18% increase for the $3,277,000 total figure. "But, but, but, that means he'll get an 18% increase toooo!"

Let’s go with the average of $819,250 for former president that the Former Presidents Act sets as compensation for each ex-president. Right now, there are four former presidents, so you need to budget $3,277,000 to cover those expenses. In this next fiscal year, another former president - Obama - will join their ranks. That will make five former presidents.

It won’t be for a full 2017 fiscal year but it will be for a portion of it, roughly 72%, so you have to include that in the budget. Let’s say, you need $589,860 ($819,215 x 72%) to cover the portion of that fiscal year in which Obama will be an ex-president. When you make your budget for that year, you add in Obama's $589,860 to the total of $3,277,000, and you write it for $3,866,860. Which is, you guessed it, an 18% increase.

But NOBODY got ANY increase in pay or other expenditures. Each of the living ex-presidents gets their same $819,250 and Obama gets a pro-rated amount based on the portion of the fiscal year in which he’s an ex-president. You simply budgeted for the additional money to cover a fifth former president (like the Fifth Beatle, but different). And if one of the former presidents dies during the fiscal year, you don’t spend some of that budgeted money.

Seriously, this isn’t that hard to grasp. Makes for good headlines and rhetorical anger, though. :D
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I hope Obama never gets to collect a penny after leaving office.
 
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