On the debt ceiling talks

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Anybody ever take a close look at the math? $3 trillion a year for the military, social security, and medicare. Ignoring for a moment that the last two are theft and should be abolished, it's obvious that our economy can't sustain this spending.

The only honorable man I'm the District of Criminals put it this way:

First, it purports to
eventually balance the
budget without cutting
military spending, Social
Security, or Medicare. This
is impossible. These three
budget items already cost
nearly $1 trillion apiece
annually. This means we
can cut every other area of
federal spending to zero and
still have a $3 trillion
budget. Since annual federal
tax revenues almost
certainly will not exceed $
2.5 trillion for several years,
this Act cannot balance the
budget under any plausible
scenario.
Second, it further
entrenches the ludicrous
beltway concept of
discretionary vs.
nondiscretionary spending.
America faces a fiscal crisis,
and we must seize the
opportunity once and for all
to slay Washington's sacred
cows – including defense
contractors and
entitlements. All spending
must be deemed
discretionary and
reexamined by Congress
each year. To allow
otherwise is pure cowardice.
Third, the Act applies the
nonsensical narrative about
a "Global War on Terror" to
justify exceptions to its
spending caps. Since this
war is undeclared, has no
definite enemies, no clear
objectives, and no metric to
determine victory, it is by
definition endless. Congress
will never balance the
budget until we reject the
concept of endless wars.
Finally, and most
egregiously, this Act ignores
the real issue: total spending
by government. As Milton
Friedman famously argued,
what we really need is a
constitutional amendment to
limit taxes and spending,
not simply to balance the
budget. What we need is a
dramatically smaller federal
government; if we achieve
this a balanced budget will
take care of itself.
We do need to cut spending,
and by a significant amount.
Going back to 2008 levels of
spending is not enough. We
need to cut back at least to
where spending was a
decade ago. A recent news
article stated that we pay 35
percent more for our
military today than we did
10 years ago, for the exact
same capabilities. The same
could be said for the rest of
the government. Why has
our budget doubled in 10
years? This country doesn't
have double the population,
or double the land area, or
double anything that would
require the federal
government to grow by such
an obscene amount.
We need to cap spending,
and then continue
decreasing that cap so that
the federal government
grows smaller and smaller.
Allowing government to
spend up to a certain
percentage of GDP is
insufficient. It doesn't
matter that the recent
historical average of
government outlays is 18
percent of GDP, because in
recent history the
government has way
overstepped its
constitutional mandates. All
we need to know about
spending caps is that they
need to decrease year after
year.
We need to balance the
budget, but a balanced
budget amendment by itself
will not do the trick. A $4
trillion balanced budget is
most certainly worse than a
$2 trillion unbalanced
budget. Again, we should
focus on the total size of the
budget more than outlays vs.
revenues.
What we have been asked to
do here is support a budget
that only cuts relative to the
President's proposed budget.
It still maintains a $1 trillion
budget deficit for FY 2012,
and spends even more
money over the next 10
years than the Paul Ryan
budget which already
passed the House.
By capping spending at a
certain constant percentage
of GDP, it allows for federal
spending to continue to
grow. Tying spending to
GDP creates an incentive to
manipulate the GDP figure,
especially since the bill
delegates the calculation of
this figure to the Office of
Management and Budget, an
agency which is responsible
to the President and not to
Congress. In the worst case,
it would even reward
further inflation of the
money supply, as increases
in nominal GDP through
pure inflation would allow
for larger federal budgets.
Finally, this bill authorizes a
$2 .4 trillion rise in the debt
limit. I have never voted for
a debt ceiling increase and I
never will. Increasing the
debt ceiling is an
endorsement of business as
usual in Washington. It
delays the inevitable, the
day that one day will come
when we cannot continue to
run up enormous deficits
and will be forced to pay
our bills.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker,
while I sympathize with the
aims of this bill's sponsors, I
must vote against HR 2560.
It is my hope, however, that
the looming debt ceiling
deadline and the discussion
surrounding the budget will
further motivate us to
consider legislation in the
near future that will make
meaningful cuts and long-
lasting reforms.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Is that it, no replies. Mercy, so will we be pulling freight with a riding mower or what? I m going to call my bank and raise my debt ceiling so I can keep borrowing money to pay my bills.

Im stocking up on beans and tators.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Mercy, so will we be pulling freight with a riding mower or what?

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paullud

Veteran Expediter
Just watched Obama trying to shine a turd, it was amazing to find out wealthy people don't pay their fair share. He must be right it is time we start taxing businesses more so we can have the poor pay the same rate of taxes which ends up being a lottery for them after they use the EIC.

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greg334

Veteran Expediter
Nothing like interrupting a night of cooking shows to see our great leader tell us things we already know.

BUT with that said, I think as mentioned to start taxing those uber-rich who seem to be able to hand out advice about what we are supposed to do while not paying much in taxes because they are giving it away to people outside this country. People like Buffet, Turner and Gates should give up their wealth to help us out.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Nothing like interrupting a night of cooking shows to see our great leader tell us things we already know.

BUT with that said, I think as mentioned to start taxing those uber-rich who seem to be able to hand out advice about what we are supposed to do while not paying much in taxes because they are giving it away to people outside this country. People like Buffet, Turner and Gates should give up their wealth to help us out.

Do I sense some sarcasm? :eek:
 

fortwayne

Not a Member
I'll take care of myself. Only liberals expect, demand and think they are entitled to everyone else's money


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paullud

Veteran Expediter
Nothing like interrupting a night of cooking shows to see our great leader tell us things we already know.

BUT with that said, I think as mentioned to start taxing those uber-rich who seem to be able to hand out advice about what we are supposed to do while not paying much in taxes because they are giving it away to people outside this country. People like Buffet, Turner and Gates should give up their wealth to help us out.

I like how Obama is acting like people just can't wait to give him their money because they have so much of it but tax codes prevent it. We have the IRS so we know people don't like to pay taxes and the IRS does accept donations so he can just give all his extra along with Turner and Buffet.

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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There was a time when even the mention of downgrading the USA's credit rating would have been unthinkable. In just over three years Barack Hussein Obama has made it probable. How's that "Hope & Change" working out??
 

tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
I like the part where he said many of the tax breaks the rich recived they never even wanted.

Anyone else think he was smirking through out his whole speach.He trid to hide it but just could not do it.:cool:

I myself think Obama blew it tonight.:D
 

copdsux

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
We have Republicans and Democrats at all levels of government. What we need is more Americans!
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
We have Republicans and Democrats at all levels of government. What we need is more Americans!

Nah... as much as Republicans and Democrats sukk, I'm afraid Americans sukk too. Americans are the ones who wanted hope and change. Well, they sure as hell got it... good and hard.
 

Camper

Not a Member
Nah... as much as Republicans and Democrats sukk, I'm afraid Americans sukk too. Americans are the ones who wanted hope and change. Well, they sure as hell got it... good and hard.

The average voter just hears what S/he wants to hear and votes accordingly.



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greg334

Veteran Expediter
I think some of you proved my point, Obama must be in charge because many of you think he is the Man who can spend the money and make the people happy.

You know thinking about it, many don't believe in him as a way to get money, a lot of them believe he is doing good fixing what others messed up - even now. Just because 51% of the people get some sort of government money (which includes social security <--- a very IMPORTANT thing), does not mean 51% of the people vote or those who do voted for him.

If you believe that we need to cut that 51% down, all entitlements should be on the table, including Social Security.

OH as a sidebar, the media is still hammering away with scaring those who can't read/think - medicare will be stopped is the last thing I heard this morning (CNN or MSNBC) which is not true because Medicare does not go to the subscriber. They can hold up payments that have been approved in July for August payment outs and do that for two or three months.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Seems that the Dems are not the only one's that can't make numbers add up :rolleyes:


Republican debt plan under fire

BBC News - Boehner debt plan falters as Obama considers veto


"Mr Boehner was forced to rewrite his plan after the Congressional Budget Office, the official non-partisan score-keeper in fiscal legislation, said it would generate less than the $1.2tn (£730bn) in budget savings he had initially announced"

Ooops!
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Seems that the Dems are not the only one's that can't make numbers add up :rolleyes:


Republican debt plan under fire

BBC News - Boehner debt plan falters as Obama considers veto


"Mr Boehner was forced to rewrite his plan after the Congressional Budget Office, the official non-partisan score-keeper in fiscal legislation, said it would generate less than the $1.2tn (£730bn) in budget savings he had initially announced"

Ooops!

That's the problem with Boehner - he sometimes tries to be too cute by 1/2. On the other hand, the Tea Party freshmen in the House need to go along with this deal if Boehner fixes it. That would be the best of all the lousy choices.
 

hdxpedx

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
Here's real released numbers going the wrong way.
Actual--- Forecast------ Previous

8:30am USD Durable Goods Orders m/m actual -2.1%----forecast--- 0.4%---previous------- 1.9%
10:30am USD Crude Oil Inventories 2.3M ----------1.2M ----------3.7M
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
It is time to send Dave Ramsey to DC! If they won't listen to him, they should all be fired!!!!

Have often wondered why they dont do that, guess Dave might be elected President and that would cause embarrassment,lol.:D
 
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