Oil spill worsens

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I don't know that response comparisons between this and Katrina are all that valid. We knew Katrina was coming for several days before it hit, and we knew how bad it was likely to be. The response was quicker, sort of, than with the spill, but the response was woefully inadequate compared to what it could have and should have been, especially since we had plenty of foreknowledge about it.

With the spill, even an immediate response, within hours, would not have prevented or lessened what is about to happen. The only valid comparison of responses is to what the response will be once the spill hits the beaches and how it's handled. I don't blame Obama, since it's not his drilling platform, and nothing that he or his administration could have done would have prevented the spill, or magically have stopped it from continuing to leak. High winds and rough seas makes the physical barriers that were put in place only slightly more than worthless. And there's a high probability that there is close to an equal amount of oil that is and will remain subsurface, just like it did at the last major blowout in the Gulf back in the 60's.

This thing is going to get into the Gulf Stream and will be on the Atlantic Coast of Florida within a couple or three weeks, and it could be 2 or 3 months before they can cut off the gusher coming up out of the well. It's a mile down. The only way to stop the leak is by drilling a relief well along side of it. Awesome.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Maybe we should stick with drilling on dry land. We can respond much more effectively to land based situations. Trying to manipulate physical disasters at deep ocean depths will be clumsy, costly and perhaps, ineffectual.

Wanna drill for oil in Sarah Palin's backyard? ANWR.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I don't know that response comparisons between this and Katrina are all that valid. We knew Katrina was coming for several days before it hit, and we knew how bad it was likely to be. The response was quicker, sort of, than with the spill, but the response was woefully inadequate compared to what it could have and should have been, especially since we had plenty of foreknowledge about it.

With the spill, even an immediate response, within hours, would not have prevented or lessened what is about to happen. The only valid comparison of responses is to what the response will be once the spill hits the beaches and how it's handled. I don't blame Obama, since it's not his drilling platform, and nothing that he or his administration could have done would have prevented the spill, or magically have stopped it from continuing to leak. High winds and rough seas makes the physical barriers that were put in place only slightly more than worthless. And there's a high probability that there is close to an equal amount of oil that is and will remain subsurface, just like it did at the last major blowout in the Gulf back in the 60's.

This thing is going to get into the Gulf Stream and will be on the Atlantic Coast of Florida within a couple or three weeks, and it could be 2 or 3 months before they can cut off the gusher coming up out of the well. It's a mile down. The only way to stop the leak is by drilling a relief well along side of it. Awesome.

True - the two disasters are apple and orange. But there has been scant criticism from the MSM of Obama's apparent lack of concern for the area, while they were all over Bush for (1) even being on vacation at his Crawford ranch when it happened (2) not leaving his vacation soon enough (3) not getting on the ground in LA soon enough (4) not CARING enough (5) not doing more of (fill in the blank) and not doing it sooner. The incompetence of the mayor of New Orleans and the ex governor of LA was simply ignored, as was the COMPETENCE of MS gov Haley Barbor. The MSM took the position that anything that went wrong was Bush's fault; let's see how much blame is laid at Obama's feet as this event plays out.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
True - the two disasters are apple and orange. But there has been scant criticism from the MSM of Obama's apparent lack of concern for the area, while they were all over Bush for (1) even being on vacation at his Crawford ranch when it happened (2) not leaving his vacation soon enough (3) not getting on the ground in LA soon enough (4) not CARING enough (5) not doing more of (fill in the blank) and not doing it sooner. The incompetence of the mayor of New Orleans and the ex governor of LA was simply ignored, as was the COMPETENCE of MS gov Haley Barbor. The MSM took the position that anything that went wrong was Bush's fault; let's see how much blame is laid at Obama's feet as this event plays out.

Well, I'm right there with the MSM on Bush. Knowing full well how big and strong Katrina was, and when it was gonna hit, he shouldn't have been in Crawford when it happened. But it was that goober at the head of FEMA that is really to blame. He was flat out incompetent (nor even remotely qualified) to do the job.

With Obama, I haven't seen any apparent lack of concern at all. Apparently there were phone calls and discussions by the administration within hours of the explosion, and various options were put on alert. Other than that, I don't know what he or anyone could have done differently. Like I said, the response, and his performance, will be measured after the oil hits the beaches, not before.

People are saying that barriers should have been put in place sooner, or that the gusher should have been stopped immediately, all kinds of ignorant crap.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Apples and Oranges....Bush's Katrina to Obama's Oil slick..........The progressive idea? Never let a good crisis go to waste.
From a blog in the New Bern Sun Journal.......this is frightening!
"Boom and the leak stops."

Holy crap, what a moron. You can blow up a burning oil well, where the explosion extinguishes the fire and you can cap the well. But if you do that to an underwater well, well, for one there's no fire to put out, and "boom and the leak stops" really means "boom and the leak gets really, really big, really, really fast" as an explosion will only make the hole bigger and let out more oil more faster.

Also, when he states...
[FONT=georgia,palatino]BP, the corporate owners of the offshore well, did not see fit (and nor did the government require) to install a $500K acoustic shut-off switch—required in Europe—that automatically triggers the shut down of a blown well.[/FONT]
[FONT=georgia,palatino]

A) The government did and does require the acoustic shut-off switch (know as a blowout preventer), but only in the absence of some other secondary backup like a Deadman's Switch (which automatically triggers if contact with the rig platform is lost) or a Pressure Switch (which automatically triggers in the event of a severe change in pressure, like with a concussive explosion), and all underwater drilling rigs have one or the other, sometimes both, and B), BP had both installed. Both failed, which, like, never happens, ever.

[/FONT]
Only two countries require an actual "acoustic switch", those being Brazil and Norway. There are two manufacturers of acoustic cutoff switches in the world. Wanna guess in which countries they are located? An acoustic switch has never been used in the wild, only in simulations, and never at a depth of more than 1000 feet.

What a hoot. I'm tempted to register there and leave a polite comment.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well, I'm right there with the MSM on Bush. Knowing full well how big and strong Katrina was, and when it was gonna hit, he shouldn't have been in Crawford when it happened. But it was that goober at the head of FEMA that is really to blame. He was flat out incompetent (nor even remotely qualified) to do the job.

Maybe it would have looked better for his public image if he had been in DC pushing buttons and giving orders, but since he was administrating instead of filling sandbags he was just as effective doing that from his desk at Crawford. A lot of the federal response is dictated by the requests from the states. The feds made several requests to Kathleen Blanco (Gov of LA at the time) to assume the direction of the evacuation of New Orleans plus a few other tasks - she refused their help until it was too late to avoid a lot of the consequences.

Regarding "Brownie" - he turned out to be a doofus, simply not having the qualifications or ability to handle the task. Sometimes these incompetent cabinet appointees of any and all administrations are able to serve their entire terms under the radar without being tested - "Brownie" wasn't so lucky.

I have a feeling that Janet Napolitano could very well be the next "Brownie", having stumbled over her own words and displayed her ignorance several times already without being under any real stress. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them push her into the background and give the heavy lifting to Ken Salazar - Sec. of Interior. At any rate this oil spill is going to get a lot worse before it gets better and everyone will be watching, especially if oil prices go up dramatically just as the economy is trying to show signs of life.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I have a feeling that Janet Napolitano could very well be the next "Brownie"...
Ya think? LOL Considering all the yelping she did as the Arizona governor about the Republicans not being able to do anything about immigration there, and now that's she in the position to actually do something about it, she can't even get the first step off the ground.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Ya think? LOL Considering all the yelping she did as the Arizona governor about the Republicans not being able to do anything about immigration there, and now that's she in the position to actually do something about it, she can't even get the first step off the ground.

Ah, Janet Napolitano. Another female about to be laid low by the Peter Principle.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
The Real Story??

The Cover-up: BP's Crude Politics and the Looming Environmental Mega-Disaster

Written by Wayne Madsen

The Cover-up: BP's Crude Politics and the Looming Environmental Mega-Disaster | Oil Price.com

WMR has been informed by sources in the US Army Corps of Engineers, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and Florida Department of Environmental Protection that the Obama White House and British Petroleum (BP), which pumped $71,000 into Barack Obama's 2008 presidential campaign -- more than John McCain or Hillary Clinton, are covering up the magnitude of the volcanic-level oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico and working together to limit BP's liability for damage caused by what can be called a "mega-disaster."

Obama and his senior White House staff, as well as Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, are working with BP's chief executive officer Tony Hayward on legislation that would raise the cap on liability for damage claims from those affected by the oil disaster from $75 million to $10 billion. However, WMR's federal and Gulf state sources are reporting the disaster has the real potential cost of at least $1 trillion. Critics of the deal being worked out between Obama and Hayward point out that $10 billion is a mere drop in the bucket for a trillion dollar disaster but also note that BP, if its assets were nationalized, could fetch almost a trillion dollars for compensation purposes. There is talk in some government circles, including FEMA, of the need to nationalize BP in order to compensate those who will ultimately be affected by the worst oil disaster in the history of the world.

Plans by BP to sink a 4-story containment dome over the oil gushing from a gaping chasm one kilometer below the surface of the Gulf, where the oil rig Deepwater Horizon exploded and killed 11 workers on April 20, and reports that one of the leaks has been contained is pure public relations disinformation designed to avoid panic and demands for greater action by the Obama administration, according to FEMA and Corps of Engineers sources. Sources within these agencies say the White House has been resisting releasing any "damaging information" about the oil disaster. They add that if the ocean oil geyser is not stopped within 90 days, there will be irreversible damage to the marine eco-systems of the Gulf of Mexico, north Atlantic Ocean, and beyond. At best, some Corps of Engineers experts say it could take two years to cement the chasm on the floor of the Gulf.

Only after the magnitude of the disaster became evident did Obama order Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano to declare the oil disaster a "national security issue." Although the Coast Guard and FEMA are part of her department, Napolitano's actual reasoning for invoking national security was to block media coverage of the immensity of the disaster that is unfolding for the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Ocean and their coastlines.

From the Corps of Engineers, FEMA, the Environmental Protection Agency, Coast Guard, and Gulf state environmental protection agencies, the message is the same: "we've never dealt with anything like this before."

The Obama administration also conspired with BP to fudge the extent of the oil leak, according to our federal and state sources. After the oil rig exploded and sank, the government stated that 42,000 gallons per day was gushing from the seabed chasm. Five days later, the federal government upped the leakage to 210,000 gallons a day.

However, WMR has been informed that submersibles that are monitoring the escaping oil from the Gulf seabed are viewing television pictures of what is a "volcanic-like" eruption of oil. Moreover, when the Army Corps of Engineers first attempted to obtain NASA imagery of the Gulf oil slick -- which is larger than that being reported by the media -- it was turned down. However, National Geographic managed to obtain the satellite imagery shots of the extent of the disaster and posted them on their web site.

There is other satellite imagery being withheld by the Obama administration that shows what lies under the gaping chasm spewing oil at an ever-alarming rate is a cavern estimated to be around the size of Mount Everest. This information has been given an almost national security-level classification to keep it from the public, according to our sources.

The Corps and Engineers and FEMA are quietly critical of the lack of support for quick action after the oil disaster by the Obama White House and the US Coast Guard. Only recently, has the Coast Guard understood the magnitude of the disaster, dispatching nearly 70 vessels to the affected area. WMR has also learned that inspections of off-shore rigs' shut-off valves by the Minerals Management Service during the Bush administration were merely rubber-stamp operations, resulting from criminal collusion between Halliburton and the Interior Department's service, and that the potential for similar disasters exists with the other 30,000 off-shore rigs that use the same shut-off valves.

The impact of the disaster became known to the Corps of Engineers and FEMA even before the White House began to take the magnitude of the impending catastrophe seriously. The first casualty of the disaster is the seafood industy, with not just fishermen, oystermen, crabbers, and shrimpers losing their jobs, but all those involved in the restaurant industry, from truckers to waitresses, facing lay-offs.

The invasion of crude oil into estuaries like the oyster-rich Apalachicola Bay in Florida spell disaster for the seafood industry. However, the biggest threat is to Florida's Everglades, which federal and state experts fear will be turned into a "dead zone" if the oil continues to gush forth from the Gulf chasm. There are also expectations that the oil slick will be caught up in the Gulf stream off the eastern seaboard of the United States, fouling beaches and estuaries like the Chesapeake Bay, and ultimately target the rich fishing grounds of the Grand Banks off Newfoundland.

WMR has also learned that 36 urban areas on the Gulf of Mexico are expecting to be confronted with a major disaster from the oil volcano in the next few days. Although protective water surface boons are being laid to protect such sensitive areas as Alabama's Dauphin Island, the mouth of the Mississippi River, and Florida's Apalachicola Bay, Florida, there is only 16 miles of boons available for the protection of 2,276 miles of tidal shoreline in the state of Florida.

Emergency preparations in dealing with the expanding oil menace are now being made for cities and towns from Corpus Christi, Texas, to Houston, New Orleans, Gulfport, Mobile, Pensacola, Tampa-St.Petersburg-Clearwater, Sarasota-Bradenton, Naples, and Key West. Some 36 FEMA-funded contracts between cities, towns, and counties and emergency workers are due to be invoked within days, if not hours, according to WMR's FEMA sources.

There are plans to evacuate people with respiratory problems, especially those among the retired senior population along the west coast of Florida, before officials begin burning surface oil as it begins to near the coastline.

There is another major threat looming for inland towns and cities. With hurricane season in effect, there is a potential for ocean oil to be picked up by hurricane-driven rains and dropped into fresh water lakes and rivers, far from the ocean, thus adding to the pollution of water supplies and eco-systems.

This story contributed by the Wayne Madsen Report for Oilprice.com
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
This administration is SO much SMARTER than the last one, why has this not been stopped? What a joke. Obama and Co. are more useless than more ice on an iceberg.

They should have not have attacked that rig in the first place if they could not stop the problem once they started it. :eek:
 
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