Obama's War On The Catholic Church

[Pilgrim]

The worst president in our country's history has added yet another colossal political gaffe to his long list: alienating the country's Catholic voters who supported him by a 54% margin in the 2008 election. This arrogant, condescending pipsqueak potentate has decided to dictate to the Catholics what their policies will be, regardless of what their fundamental beliefs have been since their inception.

"Obama's contraceptives-for-Catholics
February 03, 2012|Steve Chapman

The Catholic Church is up in arms over an administration mandate that will force Catholic colleges, hospitals and charitable groups to cover contraceptives in the health insurance they provide for students or employees. I think the administration is in the wrong. And I think many people who support the mandate don't really understand the issue.

One argument is that if these institutions get public funds, they should have to abide by the government's rules. In fact, the mandate applies regardless of whether they get federal money. And just because the government gives you money doesn't mean it can force you to give up a constitutional right. If it did, the government could forbid students getting Pell grants from criticizing the president. It could outlaw gun ownership by anyone working for a company that gets federal contracts."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...-20120203_1_tax-revenue-mandate-federal-money

In spite of the trials and tribulations of the GOP primary and its participants, this rookie-in-chief is doing his best to give the election to whomever the eventual Republican candidate might be. Naturally, the mainstream media downplays Obama's amazing affront to this influential religion, but the organized protest from practically every pulpit in the country will fill the silence left open by the MSM. Don't think for a minute that the leaders of all the denominations aren't watching this, realizing that they'll be next if BHO is allowed to get away with yet another unconstitutional decree.

 

[greg334]

And?

I can't help think that if this is the same catholic church that allows the use of church property to harbor people who invade our country and criminals who cause problems for communities.

This issue will be in the courts to be solved.

 

[RLENT]

And?

Rah-rah ... siss-boom-bah !

 

[Turtle]

Yes, you can be sure the other denominations are watching closely. Christians have a long and storied history of telling people what to do and how to live, especially with regards to the bedroom, and now the shoe is on the other foot, it's, well, it's an outrage, is what it is. It's an outrage. I'm outraged. Are you outraged?

It's apparently fine and dandy for the US government to meddle in the domestic affairs of others, except when it's the domestic affairs of domestic Christians. The government should be minding their own business!

Whats really funny is, Obama's health care overhaul doesn't force people to use condoms or take birth control pills, contrary to popular belief. It only requires that most employers and insurance plans cover birth control free of charge as a preventive service for women. Why contraception should be mandated by the Chine..., er, ah, I mean the US federal government, I have no idea. Seems to me that keeping your knees together would prove a pretty good darn tootin' preventative service, too. But this is about insurance, nothing more.

Did you know that 70% (that's seventy percent) of Catholic women use sterilization, the birth control pill, or an IUD? Seventy percent. Oh, the horror.

 

[cheri1122]

'Corporations are people', and now, organizations have Constitutional rights?! I don't think soooo......

 

[Pilgrim]

Yes, you can be sure the other denominations are watching closely. Christians have a long and storied history of telling people what to do and how to live, especially with regards to the bedroom, and now the shoe is on the other foot, it's, well, it's an outrage, is what it is. It's an outrage. I'm outraged. Are you outraged?

The opinions of agnostics, atheists, truck drivers, EO members, used car salesmen, pro football players, etc don't matter. What does matter is the collective attitude of those devout Catholics who take their religion seriously and don't want the U.S. govt. telling them how their religious beliefs should or should not be practiced. They seem to rely on that item in the U.S. Constitution called the 1st Amendment. This is the type of emotional issue that will mobilize these people to the polls when they might have otherwise stayed at home. They also have little in common with the Chinese, considering they can choose to leave the Catholic church if they so desire. Or for that matter they can continue to attend mass and do all the things good Catholics do, use birth control on the sly and take their chances when they get to the Pearly Gates. In any case, none of these side issues matter. This is a lose/lose situation for Obama; he is alienating a considerable bloc of voters during an election year in an obvious sop to his liberal base.

 

[greg334]

Sorry there pilgrim but if they take their religion/church seriously, then there would not be a divide between the Holy See and the American catholic church.

The other part that I see as a problem is the idea that they have the right to step beyond their obligation as a business venture while the rest of us can't hide behind the 1st amendment - they are again being told to provide a benefit to their employees, not their clergy.

 

[Turtle]

Of course it's a lose/lose for Obama. Hopefully, more than just the Catholics will finally realize that this is simply a symptom of the real problem, however, the problem of the government sticking their noses where they don't belong, in the every day lives of its citizens. The government shouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with laws or funding relating to abortion or contraception, because both of those are religious issues. Whenever either one gets talked about in any kind of political sense, you can bet religion is close at hand. Religion needs to stay out of government, and government needs to stay out of religion. But neither one seems to be able to.

 

[cheri1122]

The opinions of agnostics, atheists, truck drivers, EO members, used car salesmen, pro football players, etc don't matter. What does matter is the collective attitude of those devout Catholics who take their religion seriously and don't want the U.S. govt. telling them how their religious beliefs should or should not be practiced.

Those devout Catholics may take their religion seriously, but they have already proven that what they really don't want is that religion dictating their use of birth control. They insist on choosing their own methods of family planning, and I don't hear any anger from those people at all. The leadership may be outraged, but their followers are following their own needs when it comes to the subject of birth control, and have done so for many years. The leadership is just plain out of touch with their congregations.

They seem to rely on that item in the U.S. Constitution called the 1st Amendment. This is the type of emotional issue that will mobilize these people to the polls when they might have otherwise stayed at home.

I say that's just wishful thinking - but time will tell.

They also have little in common with the Chinese, considering they can choose to leave the Catholic church if they so desire. Or for that matter they can continue to attend mass and do all the things good Catholics do, use birth control on the sly and take their chances when they get to the Pearly Gates. In any case, none of these side issues matter. This is a lose/lose situation for Obama; he is alienating a considerable bloc of voters during an election year in an obvious sop to his liberal base.

Or he's alienating a group of religious leaders by requiring the same rights for their employees as are provided to everyone else. Those employees are not being forced to partake of any services they don't wish to make use of - if they don't choose to use the services offered, they can simply not use them.
Maybe those religious leaders don't want irrefutable evidence of just how many of their employees prefer to plan their families' growth to suit their own needs.....

 

[cheri1122]

Of course it's a lose/lose for Obama. Hopefully, more than just the Catholics will finally realize that this is simply a symptom of the real problem, however, the problem of the government sticking their noses where they don't belong, in the every day lives of its citizens. The government shouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with laws or funding relating to abortion or contraception, because both of those are religious issues.

They are not religious issues - they are issues of personal medical decisions that neither the government nor religion should have the right to dictate.

Whenever either one gets talked about in any kind of political sense, you can bet religion is close at hand. Religion needs to stay out of government, and government needs to stay out of religion. But neither one seems to be able to.

 

[layoutshooter]

The government has no 'right' to force any employer to pay for any kind of health care, reproductive or not. Government has no business in the mandating, by force, of health care.

I believe that all laws requiring an employer to provide health care for employees should be repealed. Health care should be an individual matter. It is not the responsibility of employers or government to pay for individuals health care.

 

[Pilgrim]

Sorry there pilgrim but if they take their religion/church seriously, then there would not be a divide between the Holy See and the American catholic church.

I agree with Cheri that birth control is a family planning issue, and the resolution to that disagreement should be resolved within the church. I'm sure that there are plenty of devout Catholic families that are thinking to themselves "we've got two kids to raise and that's enough", but are also determined that the government has no right to tell our religious leaders they have to provide services that are not consistent with our core beliefs.

The other part that I see as a problem is the idea that they have the right to step beyond their obligation as a business venture while the rest of us can't hide behind the 1st amendment - they are again being told to provide a benefit to their employees, not their clergy.

That opens up a completely different can of worms, especially regarding their tax exempt status to all the areas these large mega-churches seem to be getting into - but that's not the point. Obama has decided at the beginning of an election year that he's going to put the govt. in a position to control religious doctrine - a direct violation of the 1st Amendment. He can not win this argument. It's a really stupid political move and the GOP will hopefully be all over this issue in the weeks to come.

 

[tughillrunner]

being catholic how could you vote for obama

new meaning for omg obama must go

 

[cheri1122]

I agree with Cheri that birth control is a family planning issue, and the resolution to that disagreement should be resolved within the church. I'm sure that there are plenty of devout Catholic families that are thinking to themselves "we've got two kids to raise and that's enough", but are also determined that the government has no right to tell our religious leaders they have to provide services that are not consistent with our core beliefs.

In this context, the government is dealing with employers, not religious leaders. The law makes no distinction for religious beliefs, as is proper. If the services offered are not consistent with the employees' core beliefs, they aren't forced to use them.

That opens up a completely different can of worms, especially regarding their tax exempt status to all the areas these large mega-churches seem to be getting into - but that's not the point. Obama has decided at the beginning of an election year that he's going to put the govt. in a position to control religious doctrine - a direct violation of the 1st Amendment.

As an organization, the Catholic Church does not have the rights of a citizen, so the 1st Amendment argument doesn't apply.


He can not win this argument. It's a really stupid political move and the GOP will hopefully be all over this issue in the weeks to come.

The really stupid political move is trying to force religious ideology on everyone else. As the Susan G Komen Foundation just learned, denying medical care to some because of the religious beliefs of others is not well tolerated by most Americans.

 

[greg334]

I agree with Cheri that birth control is a family planning issue, and the resolution to that disagreement should be resolved within the church. I'm sure that there are plenty of devout Catholic families that are thinking to themselves "we've got two kids to raise and that's enough", but are also determined that the government has no right to tell our religious leaders they have to provide services that are not consistent with our core beliefs.

Again this is an issue with the church as an employer, not as a church. They should not be exempt because they are a church who is acting as an employer, and has nothing to do with either church doctrine but based on the fact that it applies beyond just one organization.

That opens up a completely different can of worms, especially regarding their tax exempt status to all the areas these large mega-churches seem to be getting into - but that's not the point.

Well maybe we need to treat the church as a taxable entity, not exempt them from anything - making them equal to the citizens that the amendment is there for.

Obama has decided at the beginning of an election year that he's going to put the govt. in a position to control religious doctrine - a direct violation of the 1st Amendment. He can not win this argument. It's a really stupid political move and the GOP will hopefully be all over this issue in the weeks to come.

How is this a direct violation of the 1st amendment?

There is no government intervention in the doctrine of the church directly or indirectly and there is no need to politicize it to protect church exemption. The gops best move would be to shut up about it and fight for things that really matter.

However, if this is an argument that is being used, then all other government regulations from safety to the ADA to the payroll tax are all issues that will fall under the separation clause.

 

[layoutshooter]

Forget that this particular employer is related to a religion. The government STILL has no business requiring them to pay for ANY kind of health care. Just as they have NO business requiring a minimum wage. What wonderful socialist/fascist ideas those are. Freedom RULES!! Get the government OUT of the way, OUT of business and OUT of our LIVES!! Free men every where should be rebelling against the very thought of what is going on! The People should be free to run their life and their business as they see fit! Don't like that idea? Move to a less free nation, like Russia.

 

[clcooper]

The People should be free to run their life and their business as they see fit! .

so you saying truck drivers should be able to secure their loads any way they see fit .even not at all .

you should be able to say it is all beef when it really is all rat . because that is your freedom and you see fit

we should be able to make bombs and sell them out of our garage .

so we should not have any laws at all .or is it just have laws for the people but none for the businesses

so FREEDOM RULES only because you can do stuff behind others backs . because you bring a gun to a fist fight .

so whose freedom rules

 

[RLENT]

Well so much for the much hoped for impending Catholic uprising against the "Kenyan interloper" by the Obama-hater crowd :

Polls: Catholics support Obama on birth control debate

Article by: SUSAN HOGAN , Star Tribune Updated: February 8, 2012 - 11:35 AM

A majority of U.S. Catholics support President Obama's decision to require religious institutions to include birth control in health insurance plans, according to two new polls.

A poll by the Public Religion Research Institute in Washington, D.C., found that support among Catholics (58 percent) is higher than that of the American public overall (55 percent).

Likewise, a Public Policy Polling survey commissioned by Planned Parenthood found that Obama's position enjoys support from 56 percent of American voters. Of the Catholics polled, 53 percent agreed with the president.

Meanwhile, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops continues to decry the president's decision, saying that it violates religious freedom.

"Under the mandate, the government forces religious insurers to write policies that violate their beliefs," said a statement on the group's website.

GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney has been attacking the president's decision at every turn, too.

"Remarkably, under this president's administration, there is an assault on religion -- an assault on the conviction and religious beliefs of members of our society," said Romney, who has faced hurdles as a candidate because of his Mormon faith.

Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum, both Catholics, have not only criticized the president's position -- they've also attacked Romney's record on the issue. They claim he took a stance similar to Obama's while governor of Massachusetts.

Santorum defied logic this week by claiming that Obama, a Christian, is hostile to Christians, particularly Catholics.

"I'm not going to stand for it," Santorum said. [rlent editorial comment: Go Frothy !]

Maybe so, but the majority of Catholics don't share Santorum's views.

Polls: Catholics support Obama on birth control debate

 

[greg334]

Sometimes it just gets silly.

As I listened to a great mind on her talk show talk to one of the Senators, both seem to think that this is an attack on the church and a violation of the 1st amendment. BUT this morning I was reminded of something, the ist amendment doesn't cover religuious end of things, it covers the freedom to practice a religion of your choice but then that is still a limited venture. It also does not say that the Church in a venture outside the practicing of the religion, like say a school that is open for profit or a hospital or a corner gas station, would not be interfiered with by the state - in other words the seperation clause doesn't cover the church in a case of outside the scope of the church doctrine. One reason why churches should be taxed if they venture into the world of commerce.

 

[layoutshooter]

Why is everyone hung up in the religious part of this? Everyone should be outraged that the government is requiring an employer to provide health care, which they should not be doing! Also, IF a particular employer CHOOSES to provide heath care it is their right to decide what and for whom to provide it for. After all, it is a gift, not a mandate.