Obama: Iraq War Over, Troops to Leave by Year's End

witness23

Veteran Expediter
I have a job for every one of them and happy to pay them to do their job.

We have a border that needs to be built and guarded, a perfect job for those who have served in combat.

The point is, not all 45,000 troops will be coming back and entering into civilian life and the job market. Whatever the make up of these troops are, very few will be entering back into civilian lives, especially with the job market the way it is, I bet quite a few will be re-upping and staying in.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I have a job for every one of them and happy to pay them to do their job.

We have a border that needs to be built and guarded, a perfect job for those who have served in combat.

That "job" should be handled by the military. No need to change the employer.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"Learn the history first before you make that claim. It has been going on for decades, not just starting out. It has formed to include us when we became a part of the UN and made decisions that forced one country into accepting another's needs or demands. "


It HAS been going on for decades, approaching a century in the not TOO distant future. What I mean by just starting out is that everything up until now has just been the "warm up" for the "main event". I know that I would do with the UN AND NATO, that will NOT happen with King Putz the 1st in office, nor will it happen with ANY of the current crops of idiots who are running for president.
 

tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
For Obama it has nothing to do with the war being over.Its all about getting votes.This will be something he pushes on the campgain trail.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I seem to think that we are actually really dumb people in this country to buy into this great piece of news, WE are not at war with Iraq and haven't been since it became a new country so what war is over?
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
IMHO, the chances of these troops returning to combat in the not-too-distant-future are pretty good. Obama has turned a blind eye to the situation in Iran, and they continue to work on going nuclear and using proxies to cause trouble in Iraq. It stands to reason that their interference will only get worse once our troops are out.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
So how would we handle Iran?

We wouldn't invade, we would not do much of anything and in reality we couldn't do much for a lot of reasons.

I think we need to look at ourselves as not the protector of any one country but as just a country. Our national interests may be in oil but so is the rest of the world.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
IMHO, the chances of these troops returning to combat in the not-too-distant-future are pretty good. Obama has turned a blind eye to the situation in Iran, and they continue to work on going nuclear and using proxies to cause trouble in Iraq. It stands to reason that their interference will only get worse once our troops are out.

Something is going on, the training has already started. From what I am gathering it would seem that the prep is for open country armor fighting. Funny, not desert training.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Today our president said every soldier in Iraq is coming home. That means The War Is Over. Yay!

Except it's not. Getting humans out of there is great, but the fact is war today doesn't need humans at all. Our neat-keen-supercool-and-groovy drones mean the Iraq war is never over.

The recently-ended Libyan war, and the successful drone targeted assassinations, are the perfect examples of why soldiers on the ground aren't even required for warfare anymore, and why boots off the ground don't mean much either.

The rebel ground campaign was the majority of the Libyan War, but the aerial minority made the revolution possible. The US had neither the support nor the means to invade Libya. It would've been political suicide and a military blunder. So we had bots do the work for us. And it worked. Qaddafi's air defenses and armor were obliterated from control rooms a world away. And this same drone aegis has no reason to leave Iran. The war in the sky will continue indefinitely, and invisibly, at the whim of the US Government and the CIA, and not necessarily in concert with each other.

In Virginia and secret bases throughout Afghanistan and Pakistan, the CIA controls a fleet of MQ-1 Predator and MQ-9 Reaper drones, capable of nailing targets with hundred pound Hellfire missiles as they buzz along near-silently overhead. It's a power unprecedented in the history of blowing things up, and not one the CIA is going to relinquish.

And the CIA's fleet isn't even accountable to the public. As the Washington Post reported earlier this year (in a very interesting 5-page article that should be read carefully), "The CIA doesn't officially acknowledge the drone program, let alone provide public explanation about who shoots and who dies, and by what rules." And given the agency's expansion of counter-terror operators, laboring to dig up "targeting" data and pulling triggers, the agency has every reason to stay aloft in Iraq.

John Pike of GlobalSecurity.org, who has testified before Congress in matters of national defense and collaborated with NASA, knows drones. And he doesn't think they're going anywhere. "UAVs provide a persistent surveillance capability that satellites do not," Pike explains, giving the government more reason to keep them flying over Baghdad long after American soldiers have been shipped home. The war on terror is indefinite and sprawling, with every inch of the globe a potential target.

The near future of Iraq, especially post-occupation, will be a shaky one. The CIA doesn't want shaky futures, they don't do shaky very well. "Any area where we feel the government doesn't have effective control of its territory, and [it] can't be solved via law enforcement, that's why we have drones."

Iraq has no air force. Iraq's ability to prevent itself from harboring enemies of the CIA is dubious. This gives America's drone fleet a self-justification to fly ad infinitum, and for a smaller war of distant humming and craters to continue as long as the CIA wants.

So how will we ever know when we continue attacks inside Iraq? We won't.

Except, of course, "the people who get blown up. And even they won't know what happened," says Pike.

w-CIA.jpg

Source: CIA. The Washington Post. Published on September 1, 2011, 8:38 p.m.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
...WE are not at war with Iraq and haven't been since it became a new country so what war is over?
I believe they're referring to the war IN Iraq.

So how would we handle Iran?
We wouldn't invade, we would not do much of anything and in reality we couldn't do much for a lot of reasons.
Not so fast my friend (I've been watching College Game Day) - there are several options available that would hit them especially hard, not the least of which is an embargo on their imported refined gasoline. But what we would or could do depends on who sits in the Oval Office; the current occupant probably wouldn't do much of anything. Might be a different story with a Republican President with control of both houses of Congress. We could certainly invade Iran, and there's high percentage of the population that would support it if we've laid the right groundwork with the leadership of an insurgent movement. One of Obama's many big foreign policy mistakes was not to support the most recent uprising of the Green movement a couple of years ago. BHO seems to be cowed by Iran, and they realize this. That's why IMHO they'll make whatever move they're planning sooner rather than later, before Obama is voted out next Nov. It could be something in Iraq using Mookie Al-Sadr as a proxie, or it might be something less obvious like a move against Israel by a puppet group such as Hamas. And yes, I realize this is all idle speculation, but it's Saturday and it's a good day to be an a armchair quarterback - which I'm actually headed toward doing right now.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I believe they're referring to the war IN Iraq.

Again what war?

We are either fighting the country or not - so I assume that there is no war and the use of the word is a dumbed down saying to appease those people who can't tell the difference or know how to figure it out.

There was a war in Germany when we fought the Germans but when they gave up in April of '45 and they became a country again in 1949, does that mean between those two times we were still at war?

NOPE.

We are ending our occupation of Iraq. The difference is with Germany we told them we will have bases while in Iraq, we built some really great bases and we are just giving it to them.



Not so fast my friend (I've been watching College Game Day) - there are several options available that would hit them especially hard, not the least of which is an embargo on their imported refined gasoline.

BUT why?

The threat they pose is so much less than the threat on our southern border or did everyone seem to miss the decapitated people down there?

But what we would or could do depends on who sits in the Oval Office; the current occupant probably wouldn't do much of anything. Might be a different story with a Republican President with control of both houses of Congress.

Yep what difference. We can be a true republican/conservative country and follow the UN's lead or listen to our "allies" and gang up on them or we can actually act as a grown up country and worry about important things.

We could certainly invade Iran, and there's high percentage of the population that would support it if we've laid the right groundwork with the leadership of an insurgent movement.

Invade it for what purpose?

What reasoning outside of shear stupidity would be have to invade them?

I bet we would be in a protracted war that we would end up either using genocide to conclude or we would again walk away because we as a country don't seem to get our d*mn arrogance is part of the problem.

Added to this, the population there would most likely not go along with us, but they would protect their country and culture. Talking to Iranians and hearing their response - they feel is an attack on their country is an attack on them by the US, they do not seem to hesitate in their answer - they would fight us as if it was Iraq or anyone else.

One BIG reason for this is our meddling in their country in the first place which gave them the present regime. If we support the internal struggle by different means while not screwing around with their government, then there is a pretty good chance that the regime will fall.

One of Obama's many big foreign policy mistakes was not to support the most recent uprising of the Green movement a couple of years ago.

I wouldn't have either.

The stability that Qaddafi and others provided us is now gone and not one "expert" who has spoken in favor of the 'revolution' has actually any proof that Egypt or Libya will end up turning on us as it seems Pakistan is heading in that direction.

To me if we are hearing the word Support, it means foreign aid and the last time I looked these countries do not need our money unless there are specific strings attached and maybe one of them is to have a clear path to what they are going to do about some religious factions in their country and how they will eliminate them.

One thing that shows our ignorance and stupidity is this idea we need to go to Libya and help them form their new military, to what end would that serve our purpose?

I don't see any real reason what France or Italy shouldn't be doing that in our place, it is their oil we fought for, not the Libyan people's freedom.

We are in a bad position because we are not the one's who they are modeling their new government after, and after we stepped outside the boundaries of the UN resolution as being part of NATO, we are presented with a bigger problem - are we going to remain involved with every revolution that comes along or are we going to step out of the nation building business and turn that over to those closer to the countries that are trying to be formed?

BHO seems to be cowed by Iran, and they realize this.

Not really, it isn't a military thing, it is a diplomatic thing and I would be doing less as president to see where the internal problems that they have are going. When the true leader of the country says he may be eliminating the president's office - that means a lot, especially when they look around and seen what the guy did with the uprisings within their own border.

That's why IMHO they'll make whatever move they're planning sooner rather than later, before Obama is voted out next Nov.

I don't think the move will happen and if it does, where it may will be against their own sworn enemy - can you guess who that is?

It could be something in Iraq using Mookie Al-Sadr as a proxie, or it might be something less obvious like a move against Israel by a puppet group such as Hamas.

Well Hamas isn't a puppet group, they have their own say in a lot of this but I think that if they, Hamas, moves, it will be pretty dramatic seeing the latest things that Israel has been doing. If something happens in Iraq, oh well we did what we could and should have left a while ago but I think their PM is making a power move to save face by stopping negotiations for troops on the ground and in reality he is willing to give us what we want in order to keep a contingent group there.

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And yes, I realize this is all idle speculation, but it's Saturday and it's a good day to be an a armchair quarterback - which I'm actually headed toward doing right now.

I do too to a point. I think part of the complacency in this country is sports and the distraction it provides but I'm p*ssed because I go to a game and have to fight crowds to get to the box.
 
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