O/O running for more then one carrier revisited

[HHDLLC]

I understand that. But what you guys fail to realize is even though you have a contract with a carrier, you don't have a contract with the carrier's customer. The carrier's customer has a contract with your carrier, not you. Therefore if there is a claim your insurance will only pay who is listed on the insurance..your carrier. Since the freight belongs to your carrier's customer, your insurance company will NOT pay that claim. Your carrier's insurance company will not pay that claim because the freight was damaged on YOUR truck, and your truck is not listed on your carrier's insurance policy since you have your own.

Do you now understand what I am talking about?




I can figure this out. But what you can't figure out is your policy has YOUR carrier listed as additionally insured, NOT the customer that gave the load to your carrier. The contract is between the customer and your carrier. In order for that claim to be paid, the load has to come from who is listed as additionally insured on the policy. Your carrier has the customer listed as additionally insured, your policy does not, it has your carrier.


Do you see the issue with this?

Very Simply, additional insured does nothing but make the insurance company NOTIFY all additional insureds if they CANCEL your policy. If I have your property or any body elses cargo on my truck it is insured. The insurance is protecting me from damage claims from whoever they may be from. If it's on my truck, it is insured.

I'm not a lawyer but the way it would work is the shipper would put a damage claim into the carrier. The carrier would submit ta claim against me and I iun turn would submit a claim to my insurance.

If you still don't believe it, then call a truck insurance broker and ask them.

It's no different than if you have your own rights and take a broker load. The shipper has no relationship to you and is not named additional insured.

 

[CharlesD]

Legal issues aside, and those are very important issues, we also need to consider whether or not this kind of thing is actually a good idea. How does having more than one company looking at the same freight increase the chances of getting a load? I don't think it does, and here's why.

You're sitting in Billings, MT and there's not another van within 200 miles, maybe even 500 miles. You're signed on with two or three companies. Each company goes on Sylectus and sees that, according to the vehicle postings, there are two other vans sitting in Billings. That information is going to affect what each company bids on that load. If you know you're the only game in town, you can pretty much write your own price on the load, within reason of course, but if you have competition, that's going to lower your price. Is this false competition really good for the industry? In the above example, the driver doesn't have a better chance of getting the load, there's just a better chance the load gets moved for cheaper than it would have otherwise. With the exception of the larger companies, everyone is looking at the same freight. All you guarantee is that the two or three companies you are working with are bidding against each other on the same freight to try to move your truck. It doesn't increase your chances of actually getting the load.

 

[comet_4298]

Legal issues aside, and those are very important issues, we also need to consider whether or not this kind of thing is actually a good idea. How does having more than one company looking at the same freight increase the chances of getting a load? I don't think it does, and here's why.

You're sitting in Billings, MT and there's not another van within 200 miles, maybe even 500 miles. You're signed on with two or three companies. Each company goes on Sylectus and sees that, according to the vehicle postings, there are two other vans sitting in Billings. That information is going to affect what each company bids on that load. If you know you're the only game in town, you can pretty much write your own price on the load, within reason of course, but if you have competition, that's going to lower your price. Is this false competition really good for the industry? In the above example, the driver doesn't have a better chance of getting the load, there's just a better chance the load gets moved for cheaper than it would have otherwise. With the exception of the larger companies, everyone is looking at the same freight. All you guarantee is that the two or three companies you are working with are bidding against each other on the same freight to try to move your truck. It doesn't increase your chances of actually getting the load.

That's the way I see it...............bidding against yourself.

I.....myself like working smarter,not harder,but if it works for you,good luck.

 

[rodeehos]

basically what vinnie is saying, is that if i sign on an o/o to run in my fleet and he says that he wants run his own liablility and cargo ins., is that o.k.? well, my agent tells me that if i do that and the o/o has that unimaginable accident and kills someone, the first thing the victims family is going to do is sue my company, then the o/o, and whoever else they can that is associated with the load. when we go to court and find out that the o/o was not listed as a scheduled auto under any of my company ins, then i am hung out to dry. i would have to cover my lawyer fees, the lawsuit money, and any other fees because my ins company's have no dog in the fight. the o/o would have ins that would cover him, but i'm bankrupt and out of business. so that scenario isn't going to fly with us. now, on the flip side, if an o/o wants to lease with multiple companies, then he really needs to run under each individual company's ins that he is leasing with so that everyone is covered without a doubt. otherwise, he needs to get his authority and ins, and have the loads brokered to him from three or four different brokers. i have talked to the federal motor carrier guys recently about this exact subject and if you do it any other way than what i have explained, then you are putting everything that you have worked your butt for in serious jeopardy, and there is no o/o worth that.

 

[Vinnie T]

basically what vinnie is saying, is that if i sign on an o/o to run in my fleet and he says that he wants run his own liablility and cargo ins., is that o.k.? well, my agent tells me that if i do that and the o/o has that unimaginable accident and kills someone, the first thing the victims family is going to do is sue my company, then the o/o, and whoever else they can that is associated with the load. when we go to court and find out that the o/o was not listed as a scheduled auto under any of my company ins, then i am hung out to dry. i would have to cover my lawyer fees, the lawsuit money, and any other fees because my ins company's have no dog in the fight. the o/o would have ins that would cover him, but i'm bankrupt and out of business. so that scenario isn't going to fly with us. now, on the flip side, if an o/o wants to lease with multiple companies, then he really needs to run under each individual company's ins that he is leasing with so that everyone is covered without a doubt. otherwise, he needs to get his authority and ins, and have the loads brokered to him from three or four different brokers. i have talked to the federal motor carrier guys recently about this exact subject and if you do it any other way than what i have explained, then you are putting everything that you have worked your butt for in serious jeopardy, and there is no o/o worth that.

Thanks for chiming in budro

I have also spoke to my agent too and he reinforced my previous position, not to mention a simple cargo claim would not be covered eithier as I already stated. Why is this only being done with cargo vans and sprinters you have to ask yourself? Anything that is not being regulated by the DOT can slip through the cracks doing this! This is legal from an insurance perspective, not by the DOT's perspective. Maybe this is a reason too in Michigan they are cracking down on van with no decals??

 

[rodeehos]

i think eventually they will regulate vehicles under 10k gvw a little more closely. all i can tell you is, that if you are leasing your commercial vehicle on to a carrier to haul freight intra or inter state, it would be in both parties best interest to run under that carriers ins. policy. otherwise, get your own authority and insurance and let the loads be brokered to you. btw, where's the freight??????

 

[Vinnie T]

i think eventually they will regulate vehicles under 10k gvw a little more closely. all i can tell you is, that if you are leasing your commercial vehicle on to a carrier to haul freight intra or inter state, it would be in both parties best interest to run under that carriers ins. policy. otherwise, get your own authority and insurance and let the loads be brokered to you. btw, where's the freight??????

This has to be the slowest 4th quarters I have ever seen!

 

[x06col]

I understand that, but nobody has answered my question as far as liability. It's not all that complicated really. I will ask again.

One of the carriers you run for gets a load from say Express-1. They call you, you bid on the load. Express-1 awards YOUR carrier the load and your carrier puts you on it. Say the pallets dumps over in your van and the product is damaged. Express-1 has a contract with YOUR carrier..NOT you. Your carrier's insurance policy WILL NOT cover that claim because your truck is not covered under YOUR carrier's insurance, you have YOUR own policy. Your insurance policy WILL NOT cover that claim because the freight belongs to Express-1, not YOUR carrier. Your policy has YOUR carrier listed on it, not Express-1.

How do you explain this? Don't you see the lapse in coverages how you and your carriers have this set up?






I understand what you are trying to do, but I think what your doing is very dangerous. I can't believe these carriers are taking such a risk!

What you should be doing is having your own authority and have your carriers broker these loads to you assuming they are a broker too and not only a carrier in order to be fully covered.

I discussed this with my carrier rep and he confirmed my concerns, I also had a conversation with my insurance agent and he expressed the same concerns. This is a time bomb waiting to happen. This will all come to an end when a driver doing business this way gets into a major accident or has a major claim and the driver and carrier he runs under gets sued!

One of these days Vinny,, you'll learn not to tip your equipment over and scratch the freight. it's pretty simple really.

Also, i'd suggest, you not worry about making the big buks with more exposure because you simply are not ready for that next step. IF, you PAY for insurance coverage, and MANAGE that coverage.......you can sleep pretty well.

Back in the day (90's) I was leased to boff fedup and landstar at the same time. Liketa killed me, actually. Whom ever called first got the truck. Were it double expenses on my part? Yep! But it was worth it for a while.

BTW: This wuz with a straight truck....not a pannel waggon.

 

[Vinnie T]

One of these days Vinny,, you'll learn not to tip your equipment over and scratch the freight. it's pretty simple really. .

What if the truck is rear ended damaging the freight?

Also, i'd suggest, you not worry about making the big buks with more exposure because you simply are not ready for that next step. IF, you PAY for insurance coverage, and MANAGE that coverage.......you can sleep pretty well..

Maybe your right, I am not ready for the next step...LOL If that includes risking my trucks and livelyhood.

I'm sure the guys that do this sleep real good at night, it's not their business that will suffer if anything happens. It's the company that gave your carrier of the day, the load.

I think most of you guys that do this were sold a program that is good for you, but not good for all parties involved.

We'll I am escalating my attempts to get to the bottom of this thing, I am available PM if anyone is interested in discussing this further. Obviously Roodehos got the same info I did, I don't think he would lie about his conversation with the DOT and his agent. I am not an isurance expert and none of you are eithier unless someone from Progressive is a member..LOL. So don't hold it against me if I am not taking anyone's word for it regarding this issue. There are some legitimate concerns for the people who do business this way, IMO it's only a matter of time before this business model comes to an end for reasons previously mentioned.

 

[ChrisGa23]

Seems like running for multiple companies is a hassle and to much to put up with for what you get back. I could see maybe 2 carriers but not 4 or 5

 

[Greg336]

Hi, I'm interested in running for multiple companies. Can you tell me if there is a list of companies that are willing to work with O/O that are looking for multiple companies? Yah I know I probally didn't word that right but how do I go about finding multiple companies?