Now the truth is out.

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
According to the AP wire and Fox News, George Bush called the mayor of New Orleans personally from Crawford Texas a DAY BEFORE, begging him to use their transit and school bus system to evacuate. Bush also told him it would likely take 48 hours for a full military presence. The mayor refused, and said they were prepared.
Air shots show over 300 city school buses under water, and 200 city buses sitting in a parking lot. Contrary to some, I think there is a place to put some of the blame. It might be a couple of days before CNN will air it.
Now the democrats are saying Bush should have ignored the law, the LA. governor, and mayor, and marched in anyway. Maybe so? I think this is why he hasn't fired anyone as of yet.
All people can do now is help as much as they can, and worry about the other legal issues later.

Davekc
 

tec1959

Expert Expediter
Well davkc you are right,Bush needed to be asked for the help he can't just say load em guys lets go.Listen to the mayor of New Orleans i think he wants all the credit when things go good,And he'll find everyone else to blame when it don't...
 

Marty

Veteran Expediter
I just did a search on both AP's web site and Fox New's web site and couldn't find this story. I would really like to read about this story. I would apperciate it if you can tell me where to find it.
Thank you,
 

dukesadog

Expert Expediter
I would like to see a copy of the State of Louisiana's emergency plan, I find it hard to believe that a State with so many swamps had no rescue boats in the area, no plan, no nothing.

Why is it the US governments job to bail out southern states everytime they have a crisis? I thought you guys hated "yankees" but when there's a problem its C'mon! help us. The Local people elected their representatives and they dropped the ball and could not make a decision. I think there will be an investigation very soon.

There is also a story floating around about several Ships including a hospital ship that tried to get into the area after the storm as was turned away by the port authority in LA. The explaination being too much red tape.

Eventually you will see some resignations....My personal favorite is the quote from one of the New Orleans cops...maybe they should get it put on all the cop car doors...."go to hell its every man for himself"! Thats a classic! and to say it to a member of fox news...wow! what a genius.

I personally wrote GW a letter...stating that I thought given the circumstances that he did a great job, his flyover at 1500 feet in airforce 1 was certainly impressive to say the least.

dukesadog
 

roadkill

Expert Expediter
And ya got to like the fact the Mayor is sending his police force to Atlantic City and Vegas for some R&R. Unbeleavable. People are still stranded and without food and water.And their police are hitting the casino's.Nutz
 

yaaintdeadyet

Expert Expediter
It's very important that this story can be substantiated. Will you provide a link to this account. I haven't found it searching through an AP news bank as of yet.
 

snipervictim

Expert Expediter
So what your saying is now its the fault of the mayor??? I think we should all take a good look at the feds they were the ones who dropped the ball in this case but i guess its a bush world in here as it seems to be .I dont post here because i hear alot of its the other guys fualt blah blah on just about everything i read .If it were a bunch of ritch white people in the who couldnt get out you can bet your last dollar they would have gotten out the next day.
If it was a attack and there was a ememy army there would that have stopped them how about a bomb? I dont see the difference at all people are dying and all i hear it TVs are being stole lol how sick are you people .There is no-way that city will be open for anything but clean-up the next 16weeks so if i steal a apple or a bag of rice i am looting ? I think you all miss the bigger picture here and thats why all the poor are still in the city why did i see with my own eyes a chopper get doctors off a roof while 25 feet away a few people were being kept alive in a roof at a hospital by hand .
This is the kinda thing that cantear a nation apart i myself am sick of the 2 sided bull i hear all the time from the feds and people who think they have a birthright to just be assholes and say look a tv got stole .B
Hmmm but i guess there is a good thing all them poor folk can now join the armyt and fight a war we shouldnt be in to begin with .
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Original report RE Brit Hume Fox News, quoting AP sources. This is another update
If you can't find links, email or PM me and I will send them through email

Why were all those buses sitting under water?"


1) Why Didn't Louisiana Follow it's Emergency Plan? Why isn't anyone talking about this?



2) Why hasn't anyone mentioned that a Pre-Requisite for a Federal Response BY LAW is that State Law is Executed and the Emergency Plan is Executed FIRST?



3) Why did the Governor abandon the City of New Orleans for the Safety of Baton Rouge, before the Plan was Executed?



4) Why, when the federal Government was acting in accordance with the Stafford Act, did the State of Louisiana, by its Governors acts, delay making requests when being told this storm was going to hit?



5) Why did Mayor Nagin or Governor Blanco, delay while sleeping on it Saturday night, the Mandatory evacuation spelled out in the Louisiana Emergency Plan? Saturday the Mayor said he may order an evacuation tomorrow. (Sunday)



6) Where were the Parish Presidents who were signatories to the Louisiana Emergency Plan, and why did they fail in its Execution to the plan?



7) In the Parish failure to implement, why didn't the State take over as required by the plan?



8) Why weren't the Hospitals nursing homes, etc. evacuated since the plan required them to do so?



9) Why did the Mandatory evacuation only occur AFTER President Bush called, and why did Governor Blanco stress that it was only after President Bush Called to urging the Evacuation order? Was she concerned for the Citizens, or was she grandstanding so she could blame the President if the Storm didn't hit?



10) Why were the Action Plan implementations required not done by the Local and State Government?



Links required reading for this information:
links have to be done manually. didn't transfer on copy



Louisiana State Emergency Operations Plan - 2005 :
Louisiana State Emergency Plan



Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan:
Southeast Louisiana Evac Plan



Southwest Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan:
Southwest Louisiana Evac Plan



Shelter Plan:
Shelter Plan



White House Declarations:



August 27, 2005 Emergency Declaration by President Bush:
Emergency Plan Dec



August 29, 2005 Major Disaster Declaration by President Bush:
Major Disaster Dec



Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, as amended by Public Law 106-390, October 30, 2000
Federal Law



Federal Response Plan:
Fed Response Plan



PARTIAL TIMELINE:



6:22 PM Pacific Friday 8/26/05
Quote:
Blanco declares state of emergency as Katrina shifts west

The governor this evening has declared a state of emergency as a major shift west in the projected track of Hurricane Katrina threatens Southeastern Louisiana.



At 5 p.m. federal forecasters made a significant westward shift in the projected path of Katrina, moving the New Orleans area much nearer the center of the cone of warning, with projected landfall now in the Biloxi area.



Note this Forecast and the declaration is almost 1 1/2 days Prior to the Mandatory Evac being instituted. This statement is reported at 2:29 pm Eastern Saturday. He should have ordered it Sooner than he finally did.



Saturday August 27, 2005 2:29 Eastern.
Mayor Delaying Evacuation along with Governor

Quote:
"This is not a test," New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin said at a news conference. He said he would probably ask people to leave at daybreak Sunday, and said the Superdome could be pressed into use as a shelter of last resort for people who do not have cars.



That is Proof the Mayor was already stating he was going to delay the Evacuation. This is Past the Time when the Emergency declarations were Issued by the Governor which was done on Friday.



She apparently said this on Saturday, according to a post , at Freerepublic:
Free Republic Link



But that post was placed on 08/27/2005 6:58:21 PM PDT, which is Saturday Night.
Quote:
Kathleen Blanco - "Lots of people are not aware of this storm because last night when they went to bed the forecast was for it to go into Florida, but overnight that changed to Louisiana."



So she is stating that last night, Friday. It didn't change overnight, she is trying to say she didn't know, and she did.



Sunday August 28, 2005
President Urges Evac
Quote:
Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said that President Bush had called and urged the state to order the evacuation.



So let's get to the Stafford Act linked to above shall we:



1) § 5191. PROCEDURE FOR DECLARATION {Sec. 501}
a.Request and declaration


All requests for a declaration by the President that an emergency exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State. Such a request shall be based on a finding that the situation is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and the affected local governments and that Federal assistance is necessary. As a part of such request, and as a prerequisite to emergency assistance under this Act, the Governor shall take appropriate action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan. The Governor shall furnish information describing the State and local efforts and resources which have been or will be used to alleviate the emergency, and will define the type and extent of Federal aid required. Based upon such Governor's request, the President may declare that an emergency exists.



NOTE, it says the Following:
A) All requests for a declaration by the President that an emergency exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State.



B) As a part of such request, and as a prerequisite to emergency assistance under this Act, the Governor shall take appropriate action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan.

Note the word PREREQUISITE. So when the Governor REQUESTED the initial declaration, she was basically lying about the Emergency Plan being implemented.



Now, we take you to the Louisiana Emergency Plan as linked to above.



1) A catastrophic hurricane is defined as a hurricane in Category 3 Slow (5 mph or less forward speed), and categories 4 or 5 on the Saffir-Simpson Scale of hurricane strength (See Annex A). Hurricanes in Category 1, 2 and 3 Fast, are considered less destructive and can be met through the use of normal emergency preparedness procedures on the part of the Parish and State governments.



The overall strategy for dealing with a catastrophic hurricane is to evacuate as much of the at risk population as possible from the path of the storm and relocate them to a place of relative safety outside the projected high water mark of the storm surge flooding and hurricane force winds. The Southeastern Region is generally defined as those parishes which have all or a large part of their population east of the Atchafalaya River Basin and south of a line drawn along Interstates 10 and 12 from Baton Rouge, through Hammond to Slidell. The Region includes the parishes of Ascension, Assumption, Jefferson, Lafourche, Orleans, Plaquemines, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. James, St. John the Baptist, St. Tammany, Tangipahoa, and Terrebonne



2) When a hurricane enters or takes form in the Gulf of Mexico, it is perceived as a potential catastrophic threat to the Southeast Louisiana Region. As the danger from the hurricane requires the initiation of emergency actions, the State Office of Emergency Preparedness and each parish will activate Emergency Operating Centers (EOCs) and declare a state of emergency. The State and parishes will commence planned emergency operations and coordinate their actions including activating and maintaining all means of communications.



Let's Look at the Responsibility of whom during an Evacuation. This can be found beginning on Page 16 0f 45 of the Louisiana Plan.



Voluntary Evacuation:



State Requirements:



State of Louisiana
1. Activate EOC and prepare for 24-hour operations.
2. Put State Departments and the ARC on standby alert in accordance with OEP Implementing Procedures.
3. Put National Guard units on standby alert.
4. Call all nursing homes and other custodial care organizations in the risk areas to insure that they are prepared to evacuate their residents.
5. Alert FEMA of the situation and advise that the State may need Federal assistance.
6. Establish communications with risk area parish EOCs and test all communications means, including conference call procedures.
7. Prepare a proclamation of emergency for the State so that, when needed, State resources can be mobilized to support risk area evacuation and host area sheltering operations.



Prepare proclamations for the State to intervene in local situations if local governments fail to act, in accordance with RS 29:721-735.


***NOTE IT SAYS So State Resources can be mobilized to support evacuation.***
***NOTE IT SAYS for the State to Intervene if Local Governments fail to act.***



Parish Requirements:



1) Local transportation resources should be marshaled and public transportation plans implemented as needed.



2) Announce the location of staging areas for people who need transportation. Public transportation will concentrate on moving people from the staging areas to safety in host parishes with priority given to people with special needs.



Recommended Evacuation:



State Duties:



Mobilize State transportation resources to aid in the evacuation of people who have mobility and/or health problems. Deploy to support risk area parishes.



Coordinate with neighboring states, Mississippi, Arkansas and Texas, and other states to which evacuees may go, such as Tennessee and Alabama. Advise states of the possible extent of Louisiana's evacuation and recommend appropriate traffic control measures.



Mandatory Evacuation:

NOT ISSUED UNTIL SUNDAY MORNING, so the Governor and Mayor got a good nights sleep Saturday Night, and only after the President urged them to do so, which was publicized in a press conference by Blanco.



a. Risk Area Parishes:


1. Coordinate evacuation orders with State and other risk parishes.
2. Instruct persons living in designated evacuation zones to leave.
3. Impose traffic control to funnel persons to designated evacuation routes.
4. Designate staging areas and other facilities as last resort refuges. People at these locations who cannot be evacuated in time to avoid the storm will remain and take refuge in the designated buildings.
5. Assist persons with mobility limitations to find last resort refuge. Mobilize all transportation resources and request assistance from the state as needed.
6. Continue to update EAS and news media with evacuation information at two-hour intervals.


b. Host Area Parishes:



1. Implement reception and care and traffic control plans.
2. Continue reporting status of shelter spaces and evacuees
accommodated to LOEP every four hours. 3.Continue 24-hour operations.



c.State of Louisiana:



1. Continue 24-hour EOC operations.
2. Consult with risk area parishes to finalize mandatory 01/00 III-6 evacuation orders.
3. Implement mandatory evacuation traffic controls. Convert specified limited access routes to one-way outbound operations. Control main evacuation routes with State resources.
4. Direct the evacuation and shelter of persons having mobility limitations, including persons in nursing homes, hospitals, group homes and non-institutionalized persons.
5. Keep neighboring states informed of status and traffic control decisions.
6. Keep EAS evacuation and shelter information updated on a two-hour basis, or more frequently if information is available on a timelier basis.
7. Keep media informed and updated on evacuation and shelter information.



Now there are several things that were not done according to this plan.



1- Direct the evacuation and shelter of persons having mobility limitations, including persons in nursing homes, hospitals, group homes and non-institutionalized persons.



This was the responsibility of the state, and it DID NOT OCCUR. Evidence Charity Hospital.



NOW, this is very Important to realize, it is the State's plan to implement the Shelter of last Resort. It was not designed for people to stay there:



From Page 29:



PART VI: STAGING AREAS / LAST RESORT REFUGE
A. Staging Areas
The definition of a staging area is a central location, easily accessible to those ambulatory people who are in need of transportation to a shelter.



1. Residents who have no means of transportation will be directed to the staging areas.



2. Transportation vehicles will be pre-positioned to transport residents to shelters.



3. Once the evacuation routes are closed, the staging areas will become Last Resort Refuges.



4. After the storm has passed and the evacuation order is rescinded, transportation will be provided to return people dropped off at shelters to the staging area.



B. Last Resort Refuge
The definition of Last Resort Refuge is a place for persons to be protected from the high winds and heavy rains from the storm. Unlike a shelter, there may be little or no water or food and possibly no utilities. A Last Resort Refuge is intended to provide best available survival protection for the duration of the hurricane only.



1. Once evacuation routes are closed, people who were unable to evacuate the risk area will be directed to last resort refuge and /or staging areas.



2. When it is determined that weather conditions permit, rescue teams will be sent into areas designated for Last Resort Refuge to transport evacuees to designated shelters.



So recap the Failure of the State and City here:



People were directed there, but No Transportation from there was used apparently before the storm. The superdome was only to be used during the duration of the hurricane.



Where were the Staging Areas?
Where was the Required Mobilization of State Resources?



Now go to Page 36 of the Plan. Here it starts talking about specifically what is need to evacuate the population.



POPULATION AT RISK ANNEX C
RISK AREA POPULATION SUMMARY*
Ascension 73,667
Assumption 22,862
Jefferson 454,447
Lafourche 88,712
Orleans 462,761
Plaquemines 25,728
St. Bernard 66,903
St. Charles 47,606
St. James 21,362
St. John 41,664
St. Tammany 188,053
Tangipahoa 96,723
Terrebonne 104,317
TOTAL 1,694,805

* 1990 Census Data (as amended by the Louisiana Tech University estimates of Population) 01/00 C-1



CATEGORY 4 FAST HURRICANE - 15 MPH

PARISH EVACUEES VEHICLES

Ascension
Assumption 22,862 9,296
Jefferson 319,968 126,971
Lafourche 74,765 26,701
Orleans 334,192 111,397
Plaquemines 24,256 8,393
St. Bernard 60,539 22,094
St. Charles 41,904 15,718
St. John 15,869 5,491
St. James 7,175 2,307
St. Tammany 105,069 41,529
Tangipahoa
Terrebonne 104,317 37,199
TOTAL 1,110,916 407,096


TIME ESTIMATES FOR EVACUATION DECISIONS:

Depending on the speed and strength of a hurricane and the number of people who are at risk, the time at which decisions must be made to evacuate will vary. The attached tables give information on the times at which action to evacuate people must be taken if the total number of people in the risk area is to be evacuated in Category 3 (Slow), 4 and 5 hurricanes. A summary of information is given for each category. These times are for Jefferson, Orleans, Plaquemines, St. Bernard and St. Tammany. The times for Terrebonne, Assumption, Lafourche, St. Charles, St. James, St. John the Baptist, Ascension and Tangipahoa would be less.



Evacuees: Gives the total number of people assumed to evacuate in response to the threat of a hurricane (not always 100% of vulnerable population).



Vehicles: An estimate of the average number of vehicles that would be used by the maximum number of evacuees.



Cut-Off Hours: The number of hours before a hurricane reaches landfall at which evacuation must be stopped because gale force winds would be blowing over evacuation bridges, making travel dangerous. The number of miles from landfall is also given.



Clearance Hours: The number of hours needed to move 100% of the evacuating population, given smooth traffic flow, out of the risk area. In the larger category storms, figures are slower for clearance times in which traffic flows as it does normally, as well as for traffic flow if designated routes are converted to one-way outbound traffic. A 2+2-hour figure is included to accommodate two hours to begin the evacuation and two hours to bring the evacuation to a stop. Total Decision Hours: The total number of hours before hurricane landfall when the decision to call for evacuation must be made if an effort to move all risk area residents is to be made.



For The Record, President Bush declared the requested State of Emergency on Saturday, August 27,2005
For The Record, President Bush declared a Major Disaster on Monday, August 29, 2005


The Levees were known to be leaking on Tuesday, and newspapers that morning were downplaying the damage done to New Orleans.



The amount of Federal help that did arrive was being mobilized and sent starting Tuesday. It took the Feds two days to get help there. Pretty Good, I say.



It is my contention that due to the incompetence of the Governor of Louisiana as well as others, such as Mayor Nagin, and all affected Parish Presidents, as well as Governor Blanco personally downplaying the ramifications of this storm, and her inability to implement the Emergency Plan when she was given plenty of notice that potentially thousands of people have died.



How could a city that had foreseen this type of event failed so miserably to enact any plan at all. How could these Parish Presidents not have had people go door to door to evacuate them. Orleans Parish contains the City of New Orleans, and their failure to impress on their citizens in advance of this storm through community education the importance of leaving is a sad truth to this story.



Others can feel free to add timeline events or other information, but the Local and State Governments delay in following the plan has killed many. Why were all those buses sitting under water

Davekc
 

raceman

Veteran Expediter
Guys thanks very much for putting that info up. I am sure people will still only read what they want to read. If folks can not see what went on or wrong here, those same folks will be doomed if they are ever faced with an emergency of this size or type.

Good Lord does everyone think the Government should save them no matter what the problem.

Guys as a truck driver when you are in a truck stop somewhere and you hear of an on coming snow storm or Tornado, do you wait around or do you get out of Dodge? I bet you use your own mind and leave that area.I guess there are some that set there and figure it won't happen or that the Truck stop owners will save them afterwards.

Sometimes I just wonder how much longer we have a Country.

Raceman
OTR O/O
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Bush could have personally gone in and taken people by the hand to evacuate them and we'd still have the bashers saying he either randomly selected the wrong random people or he physically forced people to leave against their will or any of a number of other piles of fertilizer. There is a large group of people, led by the nose by our media because they can't/won't see things for themselves, who will never be satisfied with anything unless it involves an opportunity to denigrate the administration. The only way he will ever win their approval is to start sexually using his interns. Then he'll be tied for the best president ever.

Leo Bricker
OOIDA 677319
truck 4958
73's K5LDB
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
For God and Country I wiil help him with the interns. That's just the Jim not the other half of the team.
 

SillySafetyGirl

Expert Expediter
People:

It's so easy for all of us who don't live in that region to watch the nightly news and be critics of the government. What's done is done, and can't be undone. The truth of the matter is, "All people can do now is help as much as they can, and worry about the other legal issues later." (Well said by the way Dave)

As transportation experts, have any of you drivers/owner operators/logistic personnel helped any of these fellow countrymen? I'm not talking about monetary donations either...have any of you actually taken one of the victims by the hand and evacuated that person? I haven't either, but I'm not the one blaming others for something beyond my control.

If we could go back in time to evacuate the victims, I'm sure the entire population of the United States would. Instead of concentrating your efforts on what should have been done, why don't we focus on what we can do?

Keep on keepin on,

Silly
 

MSinger

Expert Expediter
Maybe so. But rich white people would have been smart enough to elect a Republican governor and mayor.
 

tiredofsittn

Expert Expediter
all the politicans want to blame one another after they sit on there a--- and let things like this happen then review it for months so it will never happen again
 

snipervictim

Expert Expediter
Look it dosnt really matter now it comes down to lots of people are dead lots.I blasted at some people here and well it was just the emotion of seeing the things i did and i want to say i am very sorry.I am just sick of seeing good people die because they dont have the money to stay alive .When will people understand the greatness comes from everywhere and letting anyone die for no good reason could only cost us as a nation .
You never know who died I mean the cure for cancer could have died in that city and we will never know .:'(
 

mystictrans

Expert Expediter
First, I would not take anything Fox news reports as truth as they have a long history of distortion of the facts.Also W and the house refused 2 years ago to spend the estimated 200 million to shore up the levy sytem in New Orleans,calling it "pork" even tho all the top engineers predicted this very evet as being enevetable.
But when it came time to pay back all his cronies he passed the biggest highway bill in history loaed with pork( like the 250,000,000 dollar bridge to an island of 50 people that will be named after the chairman who authored the bill)I am not blaming the white house totally as there is enough blame to go around at all levels.but as to fox news... like the saying goes.. Stalin had Pravda.. Bush has Fox news
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
The money has always been available to rebuild the levy, yet Louisiana failed to use it for that. Why is it always up to the feds to do things for everyone? I don't remember where in the Bill of Rights it says the feds have to rebuild levies. Oh yes... it's in the tenth bill, which says: All remaining powers are reserved for the STATES!

You guys sound like you want the feds to baby everyone. When something happens, where is big brother government??? It's mentality like that which started the Bolshevik revolution.

And as far as Bush having Fox in his back pocket... Fox is far from that. I've heard them criticize Bush and Congress on a number of issues. They just don't jump on the media bandwagon to try and bring this administration down.

I remember something back in the 90's called CNN (Clinton News Network). They still work for his old lady ;-)
 

dukesadog

Expert Expediter
The new Blame game storm is brewing and its gonna be more powerful and wasteful than Katrina. Anyone see Cheney get bashed on National TV standing in that back yard....they had more bleeps going than P-2 trying to tell ya your 1 minute behind.

Uh-oh someone dropped the "F" bomb again. You are right...no one wants more government until there is an emergency, maybe the states might have had more money to spend if they hadn't wasted it on homeland security because as you all saw...thats working very well...no problems. The terrorists are probably laughing at us

No one mentioned that 2/3rds of the lousiana guard is in Iraq ,who are probably wondering? wait?? why do the state side troops have all that brand new equipment?..

Screw reality TV...this is the real survivor, Oprah took on the Texas Cattlemans Assc. and won...now shes after the US Govt. Who's head will roll first? Tune in next week for a new nail biting adventure.

dukesadog
( dont worry its just a nervous breakdown)
 

BigDiesel

Expert Expediter
>First, I would not take anything Fox news reports as truth
>as they have a long history of distortion of the facts.Also
>W and the house refused 2 years ago to spend the estimated
>200 million to shore up the levy sytem in New
>Orleans,calling it "pork" even tho all the top engineers
>predicted this very evet as being enevetable.
> But when it came time to pay back all his cronies he
>passed the biggest highway bill in history loaed with pork(
>like the 250,000,000 dollar bridge to an island of 50
>people that will be named after the chairman who authored
>the bill)I am not blaming the white house totally as there
>is enough blame to go around at all levels.but as to fox
>news... like the saying goes.. Stalin had Pravda.. Bush has
>Fox news


That money was set aside during Bill Clintons last term and he even said on TV the other day he doesnt know what happened to the funds that were set aside for the levy system. It looks like the Democrats found a better use for it!
 
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