NON-SMOKERS, for your consideration...,

routejumper · Mar 10, 2009

Non-smokers,
I smoke, I pay a fortune to do so and I risk good health in the process. I enjoy it. That's me.

State and local governments become more and more restrictive every year about where I can smoke. I understand, and I obey the law. I've never been issued a ticket or even a warning.

However, when I am smoking in my tiny, allocated, legally permitted to smoke area, would you please be so considerate and NOT make rude comments, pretend you are choking, and otherwise put on a public display as if your rights have been violated by my criminal act. I am not a criminal. Smoking isn't illegal.

Now, just because you have the right to make rude comments, pretend you are choking, and put on a public display of assinine behavior, would you please be considerate of me and go somewhere else to act assinine? I would really appreciate it. After all, I am in the smoking section and your anti-social behavior is offensive and unnecessary.

After all, I'm a human being, and a law-abiding citizen, and I have rights,

JUST LIKE YOU!

Thank you to all those non smokers who have shown consideration for smokers in the past, it is sincerely appreciated!

termite289 · Mar 10, 2009

i agree..........

Desperado · Mar 10, 2009

Amen brother smoker

LDB · Mar 10, 2009

The problem with any public smoking is fluid dynamics. Smoke isn't a fluid, I know. Gases behave basically the same as liquids relative to fluid dynamics. Take a cake pan or any other container about 9x12 inches, pyrex or other clear material if possible. Put about an inch of water in the bottom. Choose a section that will be your "smoking" section. Into that section pour a couple ounces of red food coloring. Let it sit a while and then take a look.

No matter how considerate you may be of others, and a minority of smokers are actually very considerate, fluid dynamics defeats any argument that can be made to justify smoking "areas" in public places.

cruzer · Mar 10, 2009

LDB said:
The problem with any public smoking is fluid dynamics. Smoke isn't a fluid, I know. Gases behave basically the same as liquids relative to fluid dynamics. Take a cake pan or any other container about 9x12 inches, pyrex or other clear material if possible. Put about an inch of water in the bottom. Choose a section that will be your "smoking" section. Into that section pour a couple ounces of red food coloring. Let it sit a while and then take a look.

No matter how considerate you may be of others, and a minority of smokers are actually very considerate, fluid dynamics defeats any argument that can be made to justify smoking "areas" in public places.

Or does it defeat any argument for nonsmoking areas?

routejumper · Mar 10, 2009

Amen cruzer!! You understand me. That makes you a special kind of professional driver.

xiggi · Mar 10, 2009

"and a minority of smokers are actually very considerate"

How would anyone ever know if it is the majority or minority of smokers that are considerate. How do you know how many people in a restaurant or lounge actually smoke? Many smokers never smoke inside, do not smoke around others or in other such similar instances. Some never smoke in public at all. You have no way of ever knowing if the majority of smokers are doing something inconsiderate.

OntarioVanMan · Mar 10, 2009

LDB said:
The problem with any public smoking is fluid dynamics. Smoke isn't a fluid, I know. Gases behave basically the same as liquids relative to fluid dynamics. Take a cake pan or any other container about 9x12 inches, pyrex or other clear material if possible. Put about an inch of water in the bottom. Choose a section that will be your "smoking" section. Into that section pour a couple ounces of red food coloring. Let it sit a while and then take a look.

No matter how considerate you may be of others, and a minority of smokers are actually very considerate, fluid dynamics defeats any argument that can be made to justify smoking "areas" in public places.

Would that be like having a peeing section only in the pool?

Thats effective....

greg334 · Mar 10, 2009

Leo, air is considered a fluid.

Anywho,
here is the problem I see, the rights of the individual are superseded by the supposed rights of a group. I mean that I have a right to do what ever I should want to do unless it directly harms another person. Direct means immediate and a clear cause of effect.

For example - if I get into my truck tomorrow drunk and run over a bunch of children, there is a direct action upon another with an immediate effect.

Another example - if a kid who just got his license decided to drag race his buddy and crashed into my car, it is a direct action upon another.

But I am eating peanuts and someone has an allergic reaction, I did not cause that person's problems nor intended to cause them a reaction. That person needs to understand that it is their responsiblity to ensure their safety, not mine because I am ignorant of their problems.

If I decide to take up the habit and I walk around, I am not doing harm to others because it take LONG direct exposure to cause damage. I how ever am just being an inconvenience to others who are too think skinned over the issue.

But on the other hand, we drive a truck and we are exposed to a lot of chemicals that are more harmful in the short term, some while we are driving in areas that we may have to in order to do our job.

I should be offended when someone dumps a bottle of P*ss out the window or thorw garbage on the ground but it really doesn't affect me.

You all see where I am going with this?

The group that I speak about are the people think that they are doing good by having studies and making people feel rotten for what they do. Some even consider it child abuse to expose a stranger's kid to it but in reality it starts to open doors for other things.

The one thing that I fear is social engineering through studies. Studies are just studies and actually don't conclude anything unless it is done on a massive scale. Kinsey I think is a good example for this, he took years to study the sexuality of people and he concluded that people in deed have sex. but I know first hand that a certain Pharma company paid to have a study done and they told the university who they paid what outcome they wanted and everyone believed that the study was legitimate and independent.

The other thing is taking more of our rights away in other areas. It is not the right of the government to tell a business owner what they can or can not do, from the ADA to this ban of smoking. This opened the door for people having to be told that they can't do this or that in their house and in fact there was a case, Lawrence v. Texas where the court held up the rights of the individual "the intimate, adult consensual conduct at issue here was part of the liberty protected by the substantive component of the Fourteenth Amendment's due process protections." where I can see that the consensual conduct in the case includes what others deem not right and does no direct harm to others around them, smoking.

But here is the real problem that a lot of others don't see, litigation and money is really the driving factor in most of this, not health.

Poorboy · Mar 10, 2009

routejumper said:
Non-smokers,
I smoke, I pay a fortune to do so and I risk good health in the process. I enjoy it. That's me.

State and local governments become more and more restrictive every year about where I can smoke. I understand, and I obey the law. I've never been issued a ticket or even a warning.

However, when I am smoking in my tiny, allocated, legally permitted to smoke area, would you please be so considerate and NOT make rude comments, pretend you are choking, and otherwise put on a public display as if your rights have been violated by my criminal act. I am not a criminal. Smoking isn't illegal.

Now, just because you have the right to make rude comments, pretend you are choking, and put on a public display of assinine behavior, would you please be considerate of me and go somewhere else to act assinine? I would really appreciate it. After all, I am in the smoking section and your anti-social behavior is offensive and unnecessary.

After all, I'm a human being, and a law-abiding citizen, and I have rights,

JUST LIKE YOU!

Thank you to all those non smokers who have shown consideration for smokers in the past, it is sincerely appreciated![/QUOTE
Ya Know, I Read the Thread Lastnight from The "Non" Smokers and got thouroughly Disgusted as to How they Think that they are Better than the "Smokers"!! Sure, They have so-called rights to enter any establishment they desire, BUT, Just because they (Non Smokers) don't like the Smoke then they have the Option to leave or stay put and deal with it. There isn't any Need or Purpose of saying anything to the One's Smoking because they are Allowed to Smoke if they Desire. There have been Numerous Places that I Have went in to and found that I couldn't enjoy my God Given Right to Light up so I Left, Even Though I had the Right to stay as Long as I Didn't light up. I Live in Toledo Ohio where these "Non" Smokers successfully Campaigned for a No Smoking Law (Even Though all you have is word of Mouth that 2nd hand smoke is Bad). There have been Scientific Studies that have Said that 2nd hand smoke is Bad for you and There have been Scientific Studies that have proven that 2nd hand smoke doesn't do anything, with the latest one done by Michigan University that doesn't prove that 2nd hand smoke causes Cancer. All they can do is surmise that it does But No Actual Proof. If the Govt. Didn't have this report Hidden somewhere then Look it up for yourself But the way they are Suing the Tobacco Companies I'll just Bet No-one can find it. Now guess what that has done to Ohioans? Or in the Toledo Area? So far these "Non smoking Do gooders have cost many,many Businesses to close, Loss of Employment, And a Loss of the Tax Dollars, More people on Unemployment, And More People on Welfare because Obviously without the Businesses and Employment then there Isn't any Tax Dollars. I and others (A Whole Lot of Others) Travel the 10 minutes to Michigan and enjoy our Meals, and or Drinks where we Can't be bothered by these "Non Smoking Cry Babies". A-Lot of times I, Like Others Buy our Gasoline, Groceries and whatever else we want while we are in Michigan. Normally I am a very Considerate smoker and Choose where I Light Up so as not to Offend anyone, But You Know what? It doesn't do any good because you will always have Someone Crying about it.. Now you can send me all the Hate Mail you want But it's Not going to Change anything that I Have Just Said.... If you don't like my Cigarette smoke then Leave bacause I'm getting a Little tired of "Not Offending You.... Nuff Said!!

Pilgrim · Mar 10, 2009

I think the whole issue boils down to good judgement and common sense. Reminds me of an old quote supposedly from Steve Martin. He was sitting at a dinner table with a guest that asked "Do you mind if I smoke?" Martin replied "Of course not - do you mind if I fart?"

routejumper · Mar 11, 2009

Pilgrim,
You need to read the 1st response to the other blog titled, "Smokers, for your consid....

I told you I would sign your petition to create your own little area called the "burp, fart and pick your nose area."

I'm all for it, honestly.

But don't let your fart cross that line in the sand...

Or you may have to answer to someone...

Like you.

Pilgrim · Mar 11, 2009

routejumper said:
Pilgrim,
You need to read the 1st response to the other blog titled, "Smokers, for your consid....

I told you I would sign your petition to create your own little area called the "burp, fart and pick your nose area."

I'm all for it, honestly.

But don't let your fart cross that line in the sand...

Or you may have to answer to someone...

Like you.

Sorry - I'm not the one creating polls on the subject, and you've obviously missed the point of that one small post.

(1)If you read it again, notice I started by suggesting the use of COMMON SENSE AND GOOD JUDGEMENT; this should apply to those that smoke and those that don't. I have no problem with smokers using their designated areas; if the Non-smokers don't like the atmosphere of their designated area their beef should be with the owners of the establishment, not the smokers.

(2)The little scene took place at the DINNER TABLE with Steve Martin - a notorious anti-smoking nazi. For the smoker to have even asked to light up was crass at best, thus the crude response.

You make the incorrect assumption from this one post that I also am an anti-smoking fanatic. I quit the cigarette habit in 1976, but I did take up cigars about 10 years ago. However, I only smoke them outdoors or in a cigar bar where the place is filled with smokers anyway. Just takes a little common sense and/or good judgement to figure out where to light one up.

Tennesseahawk · Mar 11, 2009

Pilgrim said:
Just takes a little common sense and/or good judgement to figure out where to light one up.

Like where the proprietor puts an ashtray?

Turtle · Mar 11, 2009

Just a quick note about the comparison of fluid dynamics of water and food coloring in a cake pan, to that of smoking in public. In order for that to be a valid comparison, then "public smoking" must be considered as the entire planet contained within the confines of the Mesosphere and lower, all the way down to the Upper Mantle of the Earth's Crust. And then you'd have to remove weather patterns and other phenomena that might trap, clean, break down or otherwise render any harmful smoking particles as harmless or inert.

If you want to compare the fluid dynamics of a cake pan to that of an enclosed room or building, then the room of building must be completely sealed and devoid of any HVAC system so as to approximate the conditions within the cake pan and the surface tension of the water.

In order to make a comparison with a normal room or a building that utilizes an HVAC system to that of a cake pan, a suitable membrane barrier must be employed in the cake pan to contain the food coloring. The permeability of the membrane would need to be scaled as appropriate to match the permeability of the HVAC system insofar as how much of the food coloring can "escape" its confines and pollute the otherwise pristine water.