New Strategy

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
And vanners, do not be fooled into thinking you can run as many hours as you choose to run. A sharp DOT officer will, and they have, ask to see your QC. He can easy determine how many hours you have been behind the wheel. And yes, you, and the carrier, can both be fined!




And since you seem to think it important, otherwise..why bring it up...my comment regarding my personal life was in response to the attempted "dig" regarding my purchase of several trucks and my transition to a different carrier. I never interjected that into the original discussion.

And what would the fines be for? Vans aren't subject to HOS. Can you cite a specific example of a vanner being busted for HOS violations?

And the "dig" came from personal info that you've put out there. Like I said, if you don't want people discussing it, don't put it out there.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
This last post makes more sense there bud. Y'all remember, dispatchers OR customers like nothing more than to hear "YES" on the other end of the line when looking fo a truck. Keeps your phone ringing. Course da price gotta be right, and not a stewpid demand from the truck.
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
And like I said, I really don't care..but I will respond to innuendo.

Nuff said. Let's move on to helping those who choose to operate legally. Uh, you do remember the law, don't you?

It has nothing to do with HOS regs.

It has everything to do with the officer determining if you are fit to drive.

The provision falls under Reckless Operation:


(2) No person may endanger the safety of any person or property by the negligent operation of a vehicle.
I was hoping the driver who was cited would post regarding his experience.

But if you have any doubts just ask a DOT officer, or any police officer for that matter, what they would do if they pulled you for weaving, or left-of-center, or erratically speeding up then slowing down(common during fatigue) and they looked at the QC and determined that you had been driving for 16 hours.

Here is memo posted to a Police Officer's web site.



When tired, a driver will have a hard time concentrating on your driving. This should be no great revelation. When we are tired, we have a hard time concentrating on anything we do. Moving in a 4500 pound object going 60 feet a second (40 MPH) is not a time to have a lapse in concentration.

When fatigued, we tend to take more risks. Drivers may do things while fatigued they would never think of doing when well-rested. Simply put - fatigue dulls the mind.

When tired, drivers have a tough time keeping their cars in the proper lane. They may weave and appear drunk, but they're not. They're just very tired. The results are the same though; it's a dangerous, accident-producing situation. A fatigued driver often speeds up and slows down erratically.

If a fatigued driver ignores these early warning signals and continues to drive, vision deteriorates and it gradually becomes very difficult to see. Attention focuses forward. The driver will begin to miss signals of signs in the peripheral vision area. In other words, the driver develops "tunnel vision." If a driver does not have peripheral vision they will have a difficult time seeing cars coming from an intersection. This accounts, in part, for many of the accidents that occur near the end of a long shift.

Many of the time honored cures for fatigue simply won't work, like drinking coffee to stay awake is only a stopgap, temporary measure. The caffeine can bring you up fast, but as the kidneys eliminate it from the body, it will also bring a person down-fast. The solution to fatigue is rest. (Gee, there's a novel idea)


REACTION TIME
Without a doubt the biggest problem fatigue can create is it's the affect on reaction time. Due to fatigue, there can be as much as a half second added to the time it takes to react to an emergency. That may not sound like much but at 60 MPH a half second delay in reacting to an incident is 45 feet, and at 40 mph a half a second is 30 feet. That could be the difference between the scenario being an emergency and not being an emergency.


"So often our safety message focuses on drunk driving or the importance of wearing seat belts. Both of these are extremely important," Illinois State Police Director Sam W. Nolen said, "but motorists should also obey other traffic laws. Think of how many lives could be saved if everyone obeyed traffic laws."

And to that I'll add, "Or just used common sense."
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Chappy, maybe you should look into getting into the biz of police work, then you could add Cop to your love me line.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
If you mean Police Officer, I'd be proud to serve my local, state or federal governments.

But that is not my calling.

As a Christian and a citizen of this great nation I am compelled to abide by its laws.

But you make a great case for the behavioral problems so prevalent today. You know, when the kids were riding in the back and looking over the seat at the speedo and one of them says, "Dad, the sign says 65mph, but you are driving at 75mph." And then comes the justification, "When son, they allow cars to go over the posted limit by such and such before they will ticket you." What did we just teach them?

rebel

n. [L. rebellis]

1. One who revolts from the government to which he owes allegiance, either by openly renouncing the authority of that government, or by openly opposing it. A rebel differs from an enemy, as the latter is one who does not owe allegiance to the government which he attacks. Num. 17.


2. One who willfully violates a law.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
If the men of influence in "this great country" in the mid 1700's had been pompous, hypocritical, sanctimonious bullies, we'd still be compelled to sing "God Save The Queen" (and I can barely SAY that with a straight face!) but to our everlasting good fortune, they were not - they were REBELS. And they commanded respect, because they understood the difference between commanding respect, and simply draping one's self in a mantle of authority in order to demand it.
Tyrants thrive on blind obedience, but America needs all the rebels we can muster.

 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I was hoping the driver who was cited would post regarding his experience.

I was hoping the same thing! Maybe Paul Harvey will cover it next week, because I sure would like to hear the rest of the story.

What kind of shape was this driver in that a D.O.T. officer would pull him/her over? Was the driver involved in an accident? Did the ticket and fine wake him/her up sufficiently to continue to motor down the road safely? Was the driver's mouth working overtime to prompt the ticket? Was the ticket contested in court? If so what was the outcome? Does accessing information from a qualcomm unit in a van without a search warrant constitute an illegal search? Do I ask too many questions?
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
But if you have any doubts just ask a DOT officer, or any police officer for that matter, what they would do if they pulled you for weaving, or left-of-center, or erratically speeding up then slowing down(common during fatigue) and they looked at the QC and determined that you had been driving for 16 hours.

Of course a driver would be stopped and cited for obvious drowsey driving. But, that's not what you were talking about. Now you say it has nothing to do with HOS. Previously, you said that a vanner could be cited simply for working a lot of hours. I'm still puzzled as to what that ticket would be for, given no HOS to comply with.
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
The huge difference lies in the fact that in the 1700's this nation was attempting to gain its independence.

In 2008 we have long had our independence; therefore, it isn't even remotely a valid comparison. It is not within the context of the discussion.

Hence, a rebellious attitude (disrespect for the laws of this nation) today is cause for concern. And that is why we have a system which permits persons to enforce those laws.

The continual flippant attitude of drivers in regards to the breaking of traffic laws is blatantly apparant to any person who spends any amount of time on the highway.

Once again, as I previously stated:

It has nothing to do with HOS regs.

It has everything to do with the officer determining if you are fit to drive.

The provision falls under Reckless Operation:

(2) No person may endanger the safety of any person or property by the negligent operation of a vehicle.

Invasion of privacy?

Driving is not a right.
 

The Enemy

Veteran Expediter
The huge difference lies in the fact that in the 1700's this nation was attempting to gain its independence.

In 2008 we have long had our independence; therefore, it isn't even remotely a valid comparison. It is not within the context of the discussion.

Hence, a rebellious attitude (disrespect for the laws of this nation) today is cause for concern. And that is why we have a system which permits persons to enforce those laws.

The continual flippant attitude of drivers in regards to the breaking of traffic laws is blatantly apparant to any person who spends any amount of time on the highway.

.

So what you are suggesting is everyone should fall in line and do everything what the government tells you to do.

I grew up in a Communist country......Hence the reason my family came to America. I for one do not follow all the rules, don't do what one is "supposed to do". If I wanted to have my life dictated by someone else I wouldn't have come here.

Furthermore, without people doing different out of the norm things everyone would be mindless government controlled zombies. Since it seems you have time on your hands, try to find a movie called Metropolis. Its a silent film made in the 1920's. It will prove my point.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
Back to expediting. Why would C and D units O/O and drivers want the van banned? Doesn't add up to me. Do you think they are going to get rid of their vans and get an e unit? No they are going to get a C or D unit then you will have more trucks in you same category to compete with. I'm really starting to wonder how long it will be before some companies start putting hiring freezes on C and D units. I guess they won't since they don't care if ICs are sitting as long as their freight is getting covered.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
No Joe! That couldn't happen because of the excessive requirements to drive a straight truck. Why, all dat logging an other foolish tings i hafta put up with? I "don't wanna".

pretty simple. i'd imagine if "ban da van" gets it's way, they'll go away.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
But you make a great case for the behavioral problems so prevalent today. You know, when the kids were riding in the back and looking over the seat at the speedo and one of them says, "Dad, the sign says 65mph, but you are driving at 75mph." And then comes the justification, "When son, they allow cars to go over the posted limit by such and such before they will ticket you." What did we just teach them?

That dear ol Dad ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer....:rolleyes:
His facts are wrong - officers can & do ticket drivers for going just a little over the limit. His rationale is wrong too, because feeling safe in 'not getting caught' is never sufficient justification for breaking the law.
Safety, though, IS sufficient reason for breaking the law, IMO. If you throw on a sudden burst of speed to avoid a vehicle that's swerved in too close behind you, you're speeding, for a moment, but it's ok, right? Because you prevented a collision by doing so. The same logic applies, on a smaller scale, to the issue of driving with the flow of traffic: it flows smoothest when nearly all vehicles travel at the same speed, reducing the need & incentive to change lanes.
As a responsible parent, I'd ask my inquisitive child to observe the traffic closely, for a period of 5 minutes, and note how many vehicles are passing ours, how many we are passing, and how many lane changes he/she sees in the immediate area, while I'm driving 75mph. Then I'd slow down to 65 and repeat the process. The results would be a lesson in both observation and independent reasoning that I'd be happy to have the opportunity to demonstrate. (That being a responsible parent's job, IMO)
Of course, I'd explain that exceeding the posted limit is risking a citation, and if I am cited, I will accept the consequences (a financial penalty) because I broke the law.

Reverend, your argument that laws must always be obeyed without question is one I will never agree with. Unjust laws exist today, just as they did in the 1700's, and must be questioned and opposed by thinking, reasoning persons, in exactly the same manner. THAT is the freedom granted in "this great country", and if you decline to participate, that's your choice. It's not the choice I've made.
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
And vanners, do not be fooled into thinking you can run as many hours as you choose to run. A sharp DOT officer will, and they have, ask to see your QC. He can easy determine how many hours you have been behind the wheel. And yes, you, and the carrier, can both be fined!

I hate to throw your words back at you, but if you say it has nothing to do with HOS, what are you talking about here?
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
There are no laws governing HOS on vans. One could be cited as mentioned for reckless op, but that would be the result of a accident or observation/film via dashcam for that to stick.
Bottom line.........no current laws restrict the hours on vans unless there is a hazmat load involved.
Any of the other items mean nothing.
Don't complicate the simple.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Be interesting to hear an answer....the driver can be cited for any unsafe behavior witnessed (weaving, erratic speeds), but without being subject to HOS, how can he violate them? And what could the carrier possibly be cited for?
The number of hours driven has little bearing on how 'tired' a driver is, sometimes, as we ALL know very well. (Yesterday, I doubt I drove more than 6 hrs, and felt too tired to keep going. So I didn't.)
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
I have a problem with obeying all laws without question, especially when our founding dads made it clear the the people are in charge of the government and when the government becomes too big for its own good (tyanny) it was the duty of the citizens to "prune the tree of liberty" by whatever means needed including the use of force and armed conflict..........
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
I have a problem with obeying all laws without question, especially when our founding dads made it clear the the people are in charge of the government and when the government becomes too big for its own good (tyanny) it was the duty of the citizens to "prune the tree of liberty" by whatever means needed including the use of force and armed conflict..........

Exactly. Why do you think we as citizens have the right to bear arms? So we can organize take our hunting rifles or whatever they may be and take out tyrants if the need arises.
 
Top