New Paul Thread

[layoutshooter]

"Don't know but if it is intel, that can be worked out some other way. The CIA seems to be doing a good job operating where we have no massive amount of troops so I guess it is how we approach the issue and what we have to gain by it that will matter."

Greg, CIA does not do that "kind" of intel. MANY kinds of intel have to be done exactly where we are doing it. There is not other way or place it can be done. You cannot change how radio propagates.

Leo most likely knows how to do propagation predicts for different freq ranges.

What makes you think that the forces in Japan are primarily combat forces? That has not been the case since I was there in '72-72.

Real life experience is important. Don't trust numbers dudes, er, duds. They seldom have a clue.

 

[greg334]

Greg, CIA does not do that "kind" of intel. MANY kinds of intel have to be done exactly where we are doing it. There is not other way or place it can be done. You cannot change how radio propagates.

Well I would agree with you 20 years ago but as of today, I am reading how the CIA and the DoD are working closer now than they ever have been with intel issues. Some critics are worried that the line will be blurred too much where the CIA or the military will be used to spy domestically based on a military need while other critics see more of a problem with the lack of sharing outside of the two organizations.

As for propgation - read on.

Leo most likely knows how to do propagation predicts for different freq ranges.

What?

You seem to forget, he only operates on 2m and maybe 440.

I understand propagation and radio, I also know how it works and what the predictions for band opening are and where.

What makes you think that the forces in Japan are primarily combat forces? That has not been the case since I was there in '72-72.

Don't care what they are. They are there spending money we do not have. If Japan wants us there, like Korea, they need to cover the costs. Our constitution doesn't seem to differentiate between an intel operation, an offensive operation or a defensive operation for the country of Japan. In fact reading some of the founding father's feelings, we need not to worry about a country like Japan or Korea because it is beyond our borders.

Real life experience is important. Don't trust numbers dudes, er, duds. They seldom have a clue.

I don't trust them either but here's the thing, first real life experience is only a part of the equation, knowing what our supreme law is and how we have no choice but to apply it as it is written is the other part.

So ...

Answer one of the two questions here;

Where in our constitution does it say that the military was created to protect say ... Japan?

With our given track record in "conflicts", even with Iraq, what gains have been made for our economy based on the obligation counties have (implied or otherwise) to buy our goods, use our companies and so on?

 

[RLENT]

And his MILITARY experience is?

No idea, don't really care.

I have little doubt he is serious. I have little doubt he has a functioning brain. I was not concerned about his party.

Okey-dokey.

I have NO idea if he as any idea about how to PROPERLY cut military/defense spending. Numbers guys scare me. They seldom have any practical experience.

So it sounds as though you think a "military man" is needed.

Well, hate to ruin in the party and point out that huge frickin' pachyderm that;s sittin' here in the middle of the living room, but ...

THAT TO A LARGE DEGREE IS HOW WE GOT INTO THE SITUATION WE ARE CURRENTLY IN

Just my feelings.

And the above are mine - and they are based on what is broadly known and widely acknowledged by most that have the least clue about what happens with military procurement.

It is a given you would agree with him.

Layout,

I really don't like to be rude, but as was recently pointed out to me: He asks for it ....

Now, about your statement above - it's entirely silly - I have no idea whether I would agree with him - beyond the sentiments he expressed in the short segment (5 minutes) where he discussed generally, our spending problems, and happened to comment that in relation to the military (which is something different than defense)

I am encouraged by his optimistic outlook.

What I do agree with, is the sentiments expressed in the 2:45 video - you know - the one that I took the trouble to post so that you could see the basis of an idea - which you then poo-poo'ed and said you couldn't be bothered to view.

Do you wanna have a conversation - or do you wanna to fight ?

I'm capable of either ... and am fairly good at both.

His ideas are more along the lines of yours.

They are ?

Tell me how that is so ? Expand on it please.

Clearly, you're a better man than I, cause I don't even know that yet - beyond that he's advocating that we need to rise above partisanship and work together to solve our problems.

The more a persons ideas align with those observing the smarter that person is. Whether he has a clue about what he is talking about or not.

Nice premise, but since there hasn't been much alignment between he and I yet, it isn't really valid.

 

[layoutshooter]

"I understand propagation and radio, I also know how it works and what the predictions for band opening are and where. "

Good, then you understand that certain freqs only "land" in certain places. Collection of those signals HAVE to be done in those places. There is NO other way.

Greg, CIA, NSA are "sharing" more info. They have always shared toys. They have very different missions.

I know my experience is 20 years out of date, sort of. Some things never change. Same radios, same freqs, same problem. The only possible change is the signal it self that is being used.

 

[RLENT]

Don't like Hugo, never have. Don't like "sayings" or "slogans". All talk.

You're starting wazz out there buddy - to the point of not making good sense.

I'd say calm down and think about what you just said.

Word when strung together express concepts - multiple concepts collected together form complex ideas - and that is what makes communication possible.

When push comes to shove, if these cutbacks and draw downs are done wrong, MILLIONS will die. Experience is the key. I have yet to see it in anyone you post about.

Great - fear-mongering and hysteria - haven't you yet learned that doesn't work on me ?

In fact, it's quite the reverse.

 

[RLENT]

Ideas and concepts have to be based on reality, not '60's slogans and fluff.

Ahh .... Victor Hugo was from a little further back than the '60's .... unless you were talkin' 1860's ....

I trust no one who has no real life experience. NO ONE!

Well, there isn't a person alive that lacks it.

And I'm not generally in the habit of trusting the dead myself either.

 

[layoutshooter]

So it sounds as though you think a "military man" is needed.

Well, hate to ruin in the party and point out that huge frickin' pachyderm that;s sittin' here in the middle of the living room, but ...

THAT TO A LARGE DEGREE IS HOW WE GOT INTO THE SITUATION WE ARE CURRENTLY IN

I contend that you are incorrect in this statement. Military men, as you call them, have been trying to CUT spending for YEARS. The problem resides with the Congress. THEY force most of the "waste" spending to insure their own reelection. They cut "needed" programs base on votes. They "push" unneeded programs based on votes. I watched it happen almost every day.

As to your "post" of a video, I seldom can get one to load in less than 10 or 15 minutes. I also just don't see any relevance to them.

I am sorry, I don't "trust" video makers. No experience.

 

[RLENT]

I contend that you are incorrect in this statement. Military men, as you call them, have been trying to CUT spending for YEARS. The problem resides with the Congress. THEY force most of the "waste" spending to insure their own reelection. They cut "needed" programs base on votes. They "push" unneeded programs based on votes.

I'm well aware of that - and am I quite sure that there are many good folks there that are seeking to reduce waste.

That's why qualified my statement by saying to a large degree ....

But it ain't only Congress - the Pentagon gets lobbied as well. And there are, as I understand, other institutional/bureaucratic issues as well.

As to your "post" of a video, I seldom can get one to load in less than 10 or 15 minutes.

Fair enough - I'm at home and the thought of limited bandwidth didn't occur to me. Sorry about that.

I also just don't see any relevance to them. I am sorry, I don't "trust" video makers. No experience.

Hey - I resemble that remark

 

[greg334]

Military men seem to think that it is great to come up with an idea, pay for the development of the idea and then pay for the product produced because their freinds are working for those companies who can do all that work and make all that money.

If you look at how the system works from the outside, you can understand where the 40% savings can come from.

BUT with that said, we, the people are being sold a bunch of crap if we are maintaining a large troop level at the same time being told that we are a modern hitech military that doesn't need people in the field to fight. Which is it because it can't be both.

 

[layoutshooter]

I'm well aware of that - and am I quite sure that there are many good folks there that are seeking to reduce waste.

That's why qualified my statement by saying to a large degree ....

But it ain't only Congress - the Pentagon gets lobbied as well.


Fair enough - I'm at home and the thought of limited bandwidth didn't occur to me. Sorry about that.


Hey - I resemble that remark

Everybody gets "lobbied". ONLY the congress spends the money. It always falls on them. They have the power to control things. They don't. The buck does stop with them. 100% of the blame rest with them.

I recall that in October every year the "Wedgewood" shop on base would bring in a large stock of very high end limited edition pieces. Why do you ask? The first week in November many of the members of both the house and senate intel oversight committees would fly over to "visit" our operation. They NEVER spoke to any of us. They seldom even spoke to the Chief of Station,(not that he knew anything). They DID do their Christmas shopping at the Wedgewood shop. On YOUR tax dollar. What a joke.

I AM at home. I don't have any thing better here than on the road. I don't have any kind of "hard connection" here. I use my Verison air card thing here as well. It has been crashing every 15 to 20 minutes today. What fun!

 

[layoutshooter]

Military men seem to think that it is great to come up with an idea, pay for the development of the idea and then pay for the product produced because their freinds are working for those companies who can do all that work and make all that money.

If you look at how the system works from the outside, you can understand where the 40% savings can come from.

BUT with that said, we, the people are being sold a bunch of crap if we are maintaining a large troop level at the same time being told that we are a modern hitech military that doesn't need people in the field to fight. Which is it because it can't be both.

EVERY project I ever worked on STARTED and ENDED in Congress.

NO high tech military will ever replace ground troops, unless you are willing to go all nuke and use them.

By the way, we are in Japan for our work, not Japan's. They defend themselves quite well.

 

[greg334]

So I understand what you are getting at, ...

but ever project had a reason and there were people who lobbied congress for the funding, right?

AND

I'm wondering if we are in japan for obvious reasons, where's China (or the Russians) setup to do the same thing?

 

[layoutshooter]

So I understand what you are getting at, ...

but ever project had a reason and there were people who lobbied congress for the funding, right?

AND

I'm wondering if we are in japan for obvious reasons, where's China (or the Russians) setup to do the same thing?

Congress sets 100% of the missions and priorities. The military has to figure out how to meet those orders. ONLY congress can spend money. It is 100% their fault.

I understand the system is messed up. Start first where the biggest problem lies, the congress.


Several places, although, we don't use the freq ranges that they tend to use. Also, at they change, so do our "sites" to meet the demand, or lack of it. Things are a lot more measured and controlled than many seem to think.

Most of the internal problems came from putting untrained people into positions that they were not ready to handle, no experience. Happened all the time. A 4 year degree in anything was always valued higher than 20 years in the business. Had one guy tell me once that we needed a new system because he did not have time to learn the "basics" and the "machine" should "know" that.