New Hours of Service Regs
- Thread starter RichM
- Start date
Beaurocracy (sp)101, with the big trucking companies who have all the lobbyists on their side. They make the OOIDA look like a flea on a great dane. I said this in my posting #6, these big co. guys had the rules bent for the benefit of them, to get people into trucks for less money then a fast food worker gets. That would be fine for me for them to hire drivers for that ligitimately, if they could do it. But could they? Not up until now. Another interesting thing just passed in CA that is along these lines. It allows CA residents without social security cards to get drivers licenses. What for? To allow illegal aliens to drive legally and put them in big trucks for a few tacos a day? I wonder.
One thing I know on a personal level- I am not going to let the government take away what I feel should be the right to work a job! They whine about unemployment levels, yet I want to work hard and make a living at it, and have done so in a more than safe manner for many years and they want to take that away? You teams and van owners can shrug this off saying they are not going after you,
but they will in due time, so better buck up now. I myself have more than supported every expediter of every type on this forum, be you in a van, a truck team, etc, regardless of anything.
Am I going to let this new HOS thing stop me? Nope. I'll just do my job as usual as it is an important one that needs to be done, regardless of how the big companies and Uncle Sam feel about it. If they can bend the rules, so can I.
-Weave-
One thing I know on a personal level- I am not going to let the government take away what I feel should be the right to work a job! They whine about unemployment levels, yet I want to work hard and make a living at it, and have done so in a more than safe manner for many years and they want to take that away? You teams and van owners can shrug this off saying they are not going after you,
but they will in due time, so better buck up now. I myself have more than supported every expediter of every type on this forum, be you in a van, a truck team, etc, regardless of anything.
Am I going to let this new HOS thing stop me? Nope. I'll just do my job as usual as it is an important one that needs to be done, regardless of how the big companies and Uncle Sam feel about it. If they can bend the rules, so can I.
-Weave-
jujubeans
OVM Project Manager
Weave...ATTA BOY! We figure we're all in this together..vans and trucks..and I SURE like your 
! This is what it's going to take..no one can just lay down and let this new ruling put them out of a job!!!After all our great country was founded on the spirit of fighting for what we believe in.
jujubeans
! This is what it's going to take..no one can just lay down and let this new ruling put them out of a job!!!After all our great country was founded on the spirit of fighting for what we believe in. jujubeans
I can understand why the LTL oufits such as Yellow/Roadway?ABF etc like these new rules.Their road drivers go strictly terminal to terminal,they don!t care about on duty time and they will get an extra hour of driving time out of their drivers,wonder how the Teamsters are going to react to that. The full trailer load companies like Werner,JB, Schneider are going to run into the same problems as we are. Their drivers may have to shut down and wait 11 hours after unloading somewhere.Many manufacturing schedules are built around the present log book rules so I believe it will cause such a mess that we may have these new rules rescinded very quickly. But do these companies have their heads in the sand? Possibly,Dave Nemo had a lady on the other day talking about the changes and she said her log book auditor and safety department knew nothing abouth the forthcoming changes.
It certainly is a problem for everyone. Single drivers will get hit the hardest first, however it won't take cheap foriegn labor long to inch into running teams ect. As far as union carriers, what is to stop them from closing up shop and re-opening under another name? Happens alot. Wal-Mart has just tried to appeal the new HOS rules and was rejected. On the upside, it may take a major shutdown to get it corrected. That needs to happen before the Mexicans can get in here in droves and get licenced. When the average family out there suddenly can't get what they want at stores, then there will be changes. What am I thinking? There are too many foriegners here now, but it would take time to replace 3 million drivers.
Well, up here in CanLand we're getting a little innovative. If ya seen those vans at Expo 2003 with the Unix bubble. Some owners are taking on 6,000lbs and then some! AND one guy even upgraded his rear end and taking nearly 8 thou! Taking some loads off the 5T's and getting what we have is a 3T rate plus the versatility of still running van rules cuz it still looks like a van and not a cube. Therefore fluanting the log and scales.
This is probably borderline legal but theres no ruling here that I know of yet. Any takers or good guesses?
This is probably borderline legal but theres no ruling here that I know of yet. Any takers or good guesses?
canadian rules might be a little different but in the US, states are cracking down on commercial vans. If you have no lettering or qualcomm on top I think you could get away with quite a bit. Down here in FL they have been stopping commercial vans for weight and I not sure what else. Seems like they target more out of state vans than ones with FL plates. Just seen a Landstar van with DOT the other day as we came down 95 to the house.
Let me ask if this would work? I have an FL70 which is used for my service business. I can see some problems coming with the HOS changes that could effect my ability to drive from one service call to the next. I also have a 1 ton van and a dual axle trailer with a roll up rear door as well as a double wide side door. That means I can get pallets on the van & trailer. Vans are not expected to be dock high, so the trailer really wouldn't make things any harder, other than the need to drop and re-hook to get the load out of the van. My question is, why don't more vans run with tag trailers? Depending on load weights, you could go to a tri-axle trailer. This van/trailer combination along with the new HOS rules (which don't seem to apply to vans) would make this potentially a lucrative operation. Right? Am I missing something here?
Drive Safe
Drive Safe
Instead of trying to work our ways around the crazy laws by overloading already overloaded cargo vans with an overloaded chintz trailer that the van doesn't have the power to pull, let's get the unrealistic laws illiminated, this new HOS thing would be a grand start. What is a legislator's job? To make laws. What is happening is everything will eventually be outlawed in some shape or form to the point the "law" will consist of maybe one sentence, "The things we ARE allowed to do." Maybe one or two of them? I have always been one who wants to do the right thing, but I don't feel I can be so self reighteous as to accept this new trucking log legislation as being for real, as it has nothing to do with truck safety as I noted before. It's all about who's pockets are going to be lined with green, and I rest assure you it won't be you or I the average American or Canadian truck driver or owner operator. It will be Mr. Chairman Big Co, along with the federal government and local governments.
-Weave-
-Weave-
I agree with you. If you are a single driver I don't think I would venture into expediting unless they change these rules. It will be tough to cheat the system if you are with the bigger companies, or a company that monitors or audits logs. If I was a single driver I would be looking to team with someone or sit on the sidelines until they change something. Certainly will take a large effort as Wal-mart tried and failed, so it will take an industry effort. Previous posts had some good comparisons. I am clueless as to how a single driver is going to survive???
lostroamer
Expert Expediter
It is my understanding that 70% of the professional drivers on the road today are single operators. What happens if 70% of the frieght is no longer delivered in a timely manner..BIG people will start screaming..and not at the driver following the new rules(Law). I would hate to see the already stressed economy and the trucking community suffer further becouse of this rule, but since we are about 120 days from going active with this on 4 Jan, I see bad things ahead for the first 6 months of 04. Hopefully they will expand their exempt list until they get it all straighten out. Me, I will follow the rules and help them as much as I can to repair the damage.
"Roll On!"
"Roll On!"
Weave: I am not going to argue the fact that truck drivers are treated like they are on the bottom of the food chain and that people that write these kinds of regulations do not have a clue nor do they seem to care about the impact the regs will have on the small guy. As far as the big company owners, I personally do not have any experience in dealing with any of them so I cannot comment, other than to say if the company goes out of business, the little guy will also get hurt. If the company cannot turn a profit, nobody gets ahead.
Now, as for my "chinzy" overloaded trailer being towed by an underpowered van. I think that comment was a bit unjustified. These new regs and the impact on drivers clearly an emotional issue. However, I believe that my question about using vans with trailers warrents a bit more of a civil response. Namely, is it illegal? If it is not in violation of the regs, and van/trailer are not "overloaded", can they be used in the moving of freight?
My "chinzy" dual axle tag trailer by Pace, is the same trailer that is used by hundreds of car and race buffs to haul very expensive automobiles to car shows and races. (Different type of drop down rear door on theirs.) I paid as much for that trailer as guys pay for older expeditor trucks!!
As far as changing the regs, I have already written my U.S. representative and suggested that his staff review the comments of truckers regarding the impact of these regs on drivers. At this point, all I can do is wait to hear. (I know I will hear because a member of his family is my next door neighbor.)
I have no intention of just "parking" my rig and waiting 4 or 6 months or whatever to see what happens. That's why I belong to OOIDA and have asked them what can we do. (No comment back yet).
I do not believe sitting on this great web site and complaining to the chior is going to get the job done.
Take care and Drive Safe
Now, as for my "chinzy" overloaded trailer being towed by an underpowered van. I think that comment was a bit unjustified. These new regs and the impact on drivers clearly an emotional issue. However, I believe that my question about using vans with trailers warrents a bit more of a civil response. Namely, is it illegal? If it is not in violation of the regs, and van/trailer are not "overloaded", can they be used in the moving of freight?
My "chinzy" dual axle tag trailer by Pace, is the same trailer that is used by hundreds of car and race buffs to haul very expensive automobiles to car shows and races. (Different type of drop down rear door on theirs.) I paid as much for that trailer as guys pay for older expeditor trucks!!
As far as changing the regs, I have already written my U.S. representative and suggested that his staff review the comments of truckers regarding the impact of these regs on drivers. At this point, all I can do is wait to hear. (I know I will hear because a member of his family is my next door neighbor.)
I have no intention of just "parking" my rig and waiting 4 or 6 months or whatever to see what happens. That's why I belong to OOIDA and have asked them what can we do. (No comment back yet).
I do not believe sitting on this great web site and complaining to the chior is going to get the job done.
Take care and Drive Safe
When Conway Now first started up they were using Vans that would also pull 14-16 foot trailers. This didn!t last long as the transmissions in the vans were not holding up under the torgue needed to pull the loaded van plus the loaded trailer. Ran into a guy on I 70 in Washington Pa one night and he had lost 2 transmissions trying to pull those loads. Transmissions have improved but sooner or later the DOT will be looking at the HOS for ALL Commercial vehicles. Pretty soon your toothpaste at Walmart will cost $5.00 intead of $1.50.. Nuff said. I have also expressed my concerns to my Congressional Rep,but no reply.
On the issue of upgrading van weight limits I was refering to Technically improving the vans capabilities as in heavier trannys and bigger motors even going back to a manual tranny if needed. It's been said necessity is the mother of invention. I am always looking for ways to improve on MY class of vehicle as others here do. Just picture what a dock level van could do for the van sector? Thats the way I think. What if H. Ford or the Wright Bros. had not had any imagination?
I am not trying to break the rules or run unsafely, just guilty of progressive thinking.
As logs and scales are not our concern YET We wish you all good luck in your fight.
Ken and JuJu
I am not trying to break the rules or run unsafely, just guilty of progressive thinking.
As logs and scales are not our concern YET We wish you all good luck in your fight.
Ken and JuJu
Larry and OntarioVanMan,
I will attempt to tackle the question from another point.
I have to admit, it sounds like a grand idea, but the one thing getting in your way is the GCVR, or better known as the gross combined vehicle weight. Taking a van rated at 9600 lbs, I would guess the maximum combined weight allowed at near 16000. Figuring the weight of the trailer, your load would have to be pillows or plastic foam.
The other fly in the ointment; your weight would now make you fair game for DOT and log books. I would not want to go there.
Vernon
I will attempt to tackle the question from another point.
I have to admit, it sounds like a grand idea, but the one thing getting in your way is the GCVR, or better known as the gross combined vehicle weight. Taking a van rated at 9600 lbs, I would guess the maximum combined weight allowed at near 16000. Figuring the weight of the trailer, your load would have to be pillows or plastic foam.
The other fly in the ointment; your weight would now make you fair game for DOT and log books. I would not want to go there.
Vernon
yes the DOT will step in...
NOW for you van dreamers....with all the technolgy out there Dock level vans? A device that will lift to the dock?
We have ground to the truck why not the other way?
NOW for you van dreamers....with all the technolgy out there Dock level vans? A device that will lift to the dock?
We have ground to the truck why not the other way?
If someone already mentioned this, I'm sorry but thats alot of posts to read. Yes i feel sorry for the single drivers, but I see the team expediting industry going crazy with loads coming to them from customers whose former carrier can no longer make it from point a to b in the usual amount of time. Am i seeing something that isnt there or no?