New Hours of Service Regs

RichM · Sep 16, 2003

In January the new hours of Service rules will take effect. I thought all along that it was no big deal and I would gain one more hour to drive,loose one hour of on duty and have 2 more hours of off duty time.
I read where Walmart is fighting these changes and I can see why. The new regulations would put a major hit on single drivers as once you go on duty the clock starts and after 14 hours later you are done. It does not matter what you have done during that 14 hours,the time is consecutive from when you first start up in an on duty/driving mode.
Example 1: You have driven and arrived at a delivery location at 2100. The next morning you go on duty at 0700 to make the delivery,you are on duty 30 minutes. The rest of the day,you are logged off duty but the clock is running.You can get another run and as long as it doesn!t take you past 2100 you are OK. If you sat around all day doing nothing and your Company wanted to dispatch a run picking up at 1900 delivering at 0100 the next morning you couldn!t do it as your clock stopped at 2100.\
Example 2. You are home and your company calls at 0800 for a short trip to an airport. You do it and are back home by 1000,only used 2 hours, Now you can run go on duty but at 2200 that night you stop,will your company call you for a 2100 Pick up,of course not as you can!t do it.
I thought teams would be exempt but no,at the Expo show I spent some time with the Michigan DOT guy, right now my wife and I run team using the usual 5 on/5 off. According to the DOT this will no longer work,the first 5 hours in the sleeper will NOT COUNT as sleeper time,you must put in 11 hours driving to have the first sleeper break count. Than the co driver puts in 11 hours (lots of fun),you now have 11 hours off duty but need 3 more to continue so you stop.
Walmart has quoted that they will need over 500 more drivers and 375 more trucks to handle their delivery schedules just in the NorthEast.

I may be wrong and if I am please correct me,I know that the management of some of the expediting companies look at this site and I hope that they are aware of the 14 hour consecutive rule and how it will affect their operations. Wer could all be looking at a huge decline in revenue.

RichM · Sep 16, 2003

I forgot to add that the real crazys at CRASH and PATT want this to go even further.Lets say your company calls you at 1600 for an 0700 pickup the next day.They want you to go on duty as of 1600,but you will have no hours in the AM,so forget about planning and pre dispatching.Why do they pick on us,we need some real representation in Washington. OOIDA does agood job but it!s not enough.If we all do E mails to our local Reps,things might happen in our favor.

dieseldiva · Sep 16, 2003

Will drivers still be able to split the sleeper berth time?

Yes. Drivers may split on-duty time by using sleeper berth periods. These drivers may accumulate the equivalent of 10 consecutive hours off-duty by taking 2 periods of rest in the sleeper berth, provided: Neither period is less than 2 hours; driving time in the period immediately before and after each rest period when added together does not exceed 11 hours; and the on-duty time in the period immediately before and after each rest period when added together does not include any driving after the 14th hour.

http://ooida.com/at_issue/HOS/FAQ_HOS.html

Weave · Sep 17, 2003

Rich, contact Nick Bjorklund, the creator of Driver's Daily Log. www.driversdailylog.com
This guy is a log guru who makes that program, and he is well aware of all the new rule changes. His e-mail is on the site.
-Weave-

RichM · Sep 17, 2003

Today I talked to one of the Safety folks at FDX CC,the Illustrious PAT G and she confirmed what I thought was going to happen. They are having a HOS meeting on these changes this Friday,she invited me to come but we will be in Kentucky on Friday and can!t make it.
She agreeded that single drivers will have their hours sucked out like crazy.It would be possible that a single driver only works 1 hour a day but after 5 days ,he or she would be out of hours. Then that person would need to be off 34 hours to restart the clock.
So you could easily wind up in Dry Gulp Kansas on a Friday night and be shut down. After 34 hours you could deadhead to Kansas City( 4 hours) and loose another 10 of your new 70.
As far as teams go she did not think the Michigan DOT guy was correct in that your first 5 hours in the sleeper would not count.So teams will be the only way to go.
She also said that Walmart!s appeal was denied,and the ATA representing Yellow,Roadway JB etc likes the new rules as they can get 11 hours straight out of a driver,of course they can!t log off to eat,use a bathroom and so on,but who are we to demand these functions
I have been contemplating getting out of expediting for some time noe,I have 16 years in and am burned out slightly .So If the new HOS rules crimp my income i will probably get back into the (SHUDDER) real world.

teacel · Sep 17, 2003

[font color="blue" size="2"]The new [font color="red" size="2"]HOS![/font] [font color="blue" size="2"]from the[/font] [font color="red" size="2"]DOT![/font] [font color="blue" size="2"]may be the very thing that puts the[/font] [font color="red" size="2"]VANS!!![/font] [font color="blue" size="2"]right back in the swing. [/font] [font color="purple" size="2"]I see the van drivers being able to run, at will.[/font] [font color="blue" size="2"]Maybe the[/font] [font color="red" size="2"](let your mind run wild) dispatchers![/font] [font color="blue" size="2"]that have been giving all the van work to the "D" units will start thinking more wisely! [/font] I know if I were a van driver for one of those companies that overlooked my van for a "D" unit,[font color="red" size="2"] would be paying me "D" rates[/font] to run a load that can’t get covered [font color="red" size="2"]because of the new HOS!!![/font] :+ :+ :+

Weave · Sep 17, 2003

You are probably right about the vans Tony if this new nonsense goes through. Rest assured, that ruling will be changed when solo truck drivers, who represent the vast majority of all truck drivers, walk off their jobs because they can no longer make a living at this and there will not be enough trucks running. Trucking companies are always aching for drivers, and this ruling will make absolutely nobody want to become a future truck driver. Those big companies have been trying for years to dumb truck driving down into a six dollar an hour job. Nobobdy is going to do the job for peanuts with all the time away from home and all the responsibility associated with it. If we are going to be screwed by the government and their rules, they can just take truck driving and shove it- we will find other jobs. Seems to be the way Rich and I look at it, so I'm sure everyone else doing this feels the same way. Just give it a few more months to see how the government feels about it when there aren't any more trucks running.
-Weave-

Dreamer · Sep 17, 2003

I mentioned this fact several months ago when the new HOS regs were first posted, and got laughed off a couple 'big truck' forums. Noone believed my interpretation that the 14 hours were consecutive from the FIRST time you log on... like was said previously... if you log on for 30 minutes at 6:00am to deliver that run... at 8:00pm you are DONE! No matter where or what you run. SO... you have 13.5 hrs to accept, pick up, and deliver another run. Kill the single driver? You bet! This rule will work for regular route drivers ONLY.

And, as Teacel said, I have discussed this fact with several recruiters, about vans taking off. The way I see it, the van is going to be the only way to go for a single driver, and so... that is exactly what I'm planning for my new unit. I wanted to come back in a truck....but... I've looked at it from every angle, and all I can see is LESS runs for the single driver in a truck.

I can't see a D or E unit driver wanting to waste their precious 14 hours for a low paying, short B load...so they will refuse more of them.. throwing them back to the van, who will be able to run all he wants.

Just my opinion!

Dreamer

Weave · Sep 18, 2003

Like I said, it ain't going to happen, or if it does, it won't last too long. By contrast, it would take 6 regular cargo vans to haul what I can put in my 24 footer, not to mention if the solo 53 footers disappear. This new dumbass rule, made up by yet another old foagy dumbass politician, simply will not work with the industry starved for trucks as it is with the old rules.
-Weave-

Dreamer · Sep 18, 2003

I couldn't agree with you more Weave. What I don't understand, is why the expedite companies haven't realized what's going to happen, and jumped on the wagon with Walmart, etc... this is going to CRIPPLE expediting, as a major portion of every company is single drivers.

Another example, that we've all seen, similar to the other one.

We've all gotten those runs with plenty of time that don't deliver to a plant, warehouse etc..til 6:00am the following morning. Now, I alway liked to run in early, see if I could park on or near the lot, sleep, get up and unload. Suppose, I run up there to the warehouse, get in at 10:00pm, 6:00am the guard is sayin go on in... I'm sayin.. sorry... I can't unload for 2 more hours.... wake me up at 8:00, OK?????

NOT!

Like I said in my previous post, this new HOS ruling may work for a regular route driver, ie Kroger, BP, but no way is it going to work for expediters, and the companies need to jump in, or they're going to wake up Jan 4 and discover they can't move freight. So, what will they do... double the amount of drivers? Have 'day' and 'night' drivers.. or more likely, require all teams in trucks....

How many single drivers just from our little group HERE would be screwed.. let alone all the others....

Dreamer

geo · Sep 18, 2003

again people write law's and have no ideal how it's going to work
did they test it out to see what they were doing don't think so

rules as they are now are ok, all they have to do is
enforce the rules driver's drive, shipper load the truck with
driver tell them how he wants the loaded
and rec'er off load's the truck and not the driver
and thing's will work out time to write letter's and
plan a shut down before jan 4 04
and let everybody know were not going to take it any more

OntarioVanMan · Sep 18, 2003

Tony

I absolutely agree with you! We van drivers may get our single skids back. Dispatchers will have to save thier big loads for the right truck just not give a skid away to keep the big guys happy. Smarter dispatchers gee what a novelty!
This mess will eventually get straightened out but MAYBE, Tony our slow period won't be quite so slow this winter ( since politicians move so slow ) JuJu and I will be out there lapping up the gravey till the bowl is empty!
I am not bashing the big guys ( not wishing bad fortune on anyone ) but sometimes its nice to get a windfall, should it come about.

Dreamer, Weave, Rich we wish you luck on this issue!

dieseldiva · Sep 18, 2003

You guys got me thinking about this one so I went back in our "archives" to check out our stats. In the last 14 months we are showing 294 runs offered, 28 of those being 2 sizes down, and out of that 28, only 8 that we accepted. It's not something (accepting) that we normally give consideration to, only if the circumstances dictate, as of course we prefer those "D" runs. Don't know if these figures are close to what others have. We understand, as a lot of "D" units see the "E" units dispatched fast and wonder just how man "D" loads they're carrying. These new HOS are difficult to wrap your mind around, don't know why they can't write this stuff so common person can get a clearer understanding! Hoping that things stay strong and that we ALL prosper. DD

lostroamer · Sep 18, 2003

You guys also understand the the 'Big Rig' guys just do not believe this will have a big impact on them and thats exactly what they are telling thier dispatchers and companies, I have heard as much. They are willing to throw the dice and work the books to stay on the road instead of fighting this ruling and get it right. My point..it dosen't take a geninus to figure out you drive 250 miles over your 14 hours if they look at your dispacth and bills, with the fines and loss time due to parking it..well need to say more?
DOT cops are going to be all over this money machine for the first 6 months at least I believe.

Lawrence · Sep 18, 2003

Tony Mon,

I think you may be on to something with this swing back to cargo vans.
They're not regulated like the 10K+ units.

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com

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Weave · Sep 18, 2003

I'm all for a shutdown over this issue just to set the record straight with this rediculous DOT and their silly rules, that simply will NOT reduce the number of truck accidents, and they know that. It will just give them better opportunities to make money, and drivers more creative ways to cheat their logs, possibly making things even more dangerous. I don't really see anyone benefiting from this- it will just raise shipping costs so much across the board, that companies won't even think about expediting, as far as the quantities of freight that go in a D or E unit. To be honest Tony, I have done a few shipments in the past year that would have fit into a cargo van, but I did those only because there were no cargo vans around in the areas I was at or a dock high was required. I can't see a place paying 6 cargo vans $1.00/mi each to expedite 12 pallets. Nobody wins with this nonsense.
-Weave-

lostroamer · Sep 19, 2003

Weave hit the nail on the head..this will have NO impact whatsoever on reducing accidents..those PROFESSIONAL drivers who are doing it their way now will continue to do so.
I to have carried small loads in my fl70 and I agree weave!

KandS2 · Sep 19, 2003

My husband is selling his truck so we can buy another van. He doesn't see any way to make it as a single in a truck when the new rules go into effect. Even taking sleeper berth time in the middle of the "on the clock time" won't help much, especially as most runs are straight through.

As for vans hauling D freight: we think that shippers will send enough freight on one or two vans to hold the receiver, then send the rest of the freight by LTL or some slower method.

Let's hope and pray someone comes to their senses and changes the rules back to the old way. The old rules aren't perfect, but we can live with them.

Stay safe out there!

highway star · Sep 19, 2003

That 30 minute morning delivery won't be a big deal because everyone will just log it like they delivered when they got there. Creative logging will continue as it always has. The talk of vans having to log someday has been going on since I've been in this business and now that the feds are actually doing something with HOS, maybe we'll actually have to start logging. I was in semis for 15 years and I really like the freedom of the van. But if I have to log, I'll be back in a bigger unit.

davekc · Sep 20, 2003

wife and I have been in expediting for a little while. Companies are going to start requiring team only trucks. They have no choice. Van business might increase alittle but the majority of the freight we haul isn't going on a van. In addition, I don't think customers are going to be willing to pay double or triple the tariff for the same load to go on a van. Bottom line is that if they don't change these "new" rules, you are screwed as a single driver in expediting. Might do alright with the right dedicated run and the hours are position correctly. The other problem I see is that if a majority of drivers go out and get vans, what do you have? Too many vans. For some reason this is starting to seem like a reason to bring in $5.00 an hour Mexican drivers since they won't be able to find others.