New fuel program in Panther

[LDB]

An offer of .12fsc was most likely Ford, GM or Chrysler. If I ran a van at 20mpg I'd accept .12fsc as a minimum level. In my straight truck .33fsc is my standard. If I were running a tractor I'd look for .44fsc as a reasonable baseline. In my truck I'd ask for a bonus equal to 21cpm times the 1200 or so miles of the run and if they wouldn't pay it the freight would sit. In a tractor it would have to be 32cpm times the loaded miles. The only time I'd run a .12fsc would be on a full rate load delivering 20-30 miles from home after being out a month or so.

 

[TwoMotherTrkrs]

Leo:

Can Driver Council get us some accurate information on what Panther is considering re: a new FSC program? Would they like some input from us drivers before they impliment their ideas, or would they prefer to let it 'slip' out via Driver Handlers who are only given partial info at best? Let's be proactive here and put the focus on "The Year of Communications". Otherwise this has the potential to create another one of those downward spirals we have experienced in the past because of innuendo and rumor.

 

[Fr8 Shaker]

I am investigating this new program now myself once I get the info ill run 2 data bases to see which way is the best way for me. By the way I have had loads paying fsc of .71 per mile over a year ago my top fsc was $1.68 per mile on 130 miles got to love that one just wish it was a 1000 mile load lol. But then there has been .10 fsc load offers also my adv is around .50 fsc. Which is why I don’t do the big 3 anymore they think you should be happy to pay to pull their loads and I wont pull a load where I cant make a profit. Maybe I am greedy but I won’t haul for fuel costs. It’s the people that do that, that keep rates low on backhauls. Brokers are thieves plain and simple I read a recent report that Landstar makes an adv of $1600.00 per load that’s the brokerage not the trucks. It’s the trucks that bear the brunt of the costs to move the freight. Got to love the reports saying costs at the store are up because of higher transportation costs. Well have any of you called any brokers lately you are lucky if you get much over $1.10 per mile for a 45000 lbs load. They pocket the money that should be going to us because we let them. We let them because we take those loads if we let freight sit on the dock those thieves would have to pay us more. Sorry I got off topic but I hate brokers they are what keeps whale crap off of the bottom of the ocean.

Scuba, I couldn't agree with you more !!!

 

[Falligator]

.12 cents per mile?! That sounds like a van fsc.

 

[LDB]

As I understand it, the potential program is an option to stay exactly as is or switch to a weekly fsc based on the national avg price of diesel adjusted to $1.25 a gallon and 10mpg in a straight truck. There isn't anything really to give input on since they aren't looking for a variety of options to vote on or anything. It will be a single option available by choice or the status quo. I believe it is a point in their favor that it will be optional and not a fleet change like some other companies have done. Under the optional system, at $3.81/gal., the fsc for the week would be 3.81-1.25=2.56/10=25.6cpm or perhaps rounded to 26cpm. The 12cpm job would be paid 26cpm. The 43cpm job would also be paid 26cpm. If it's a loaded mile, it's 26cpm fsc for the week. As I understand, it is being tested first in the t/t fleet and if it seems to be good there it will be offered to everyone else. I'll be staying with the current system.

 

[alborada]

How you get this formula and whay you going in $1.25/galon? Can you explening this formula for a futcher estimation? Thank you .

 

[LDB]

Most companies believe the truck owner should pay $1.25 per gallon. The current price of fuel is $3.81 - $1.25 leaves $2.56 that the fsc needs to cover since that's how much is over the $1.25 the owner is expected to pay. They expect a straight truck to get 10mpg. I believe they expect 6mpg for tractors and 15mpg for vans but I don't own those and don't know for sure. The $2.56 is divided by whichever mpg is appropriate and that gives the fsc. For my straight trucks it's 10mpg so $2.56/10 is 25.6cpm. I don't know if it will be rounded off to the nearest penny or paid exact.

 

[TwoMotherTrkrs]

Gee whizz! My D unit doesn't get 10mpg. I know this because in the 4 1/2 years I've been paying for quarterly fuel tax reports from Panther, I've NEVER averaged 10mpg for any quarter. I realize that I have extra weight with my liftgate and tag axle, not to mention all my Elite Services equipment, but this is special equipment that Panther values. How many D units do average 10mpg per quarter? How 'bout typical C units? Do they average 10mpg? B units? Do Sprinters and Cargo Vans get comparable mileage? Panther has the data for EVERY unit, so why don't they use the data they have compiled to pay based on actual facts?

Panther has always said that the Fuel Surcharge (FSC) is voluntary for the entity that is paying for the load, unless it is a customer who has signed a contract, ie. GM @ $0.179/mi. Soooo, are they gonna tell the customers who voluntarily pay $0.449/mi that they don't want the extra money? If not, how does the law that says he/she who pays for the fuel gets the FSC apply?

 

[alborada]

Thnak's LDB in my case I have to divaded in 6 for a big TT. I have now clue what is the formula .......Thank tou so much .......

 

[LDB]

Keep in mind I do not know positively what numbers are going to be used. I have given an example to show how it would work and how it is different from the current system but the numbers could change if/when it is implemented. The customers will pay fsc the same as they have been. If the customer pays 45cpm and the truck accepting the load is on the fixed rate program the extra will go in the pool that's dipped into when the customer is only paying 12cpm and you are getting the 26cpm or whatever the fixed rate is. Drivers who stay on the current plan would get the full 45cpm.

 

[TwoMotherTrkrs]

Thanks for going after the information, Leo. Also, I appreciate the work that Driver Council is doing and realize that there is a narrow 'sweet spot' where what's good for fleet owners, owner/operators and drivers meets what is good for Panther. We have CHOSEN Panther and are proud to fly Panther's 'colors'.

Please keep us posted.

 

[greg334]

I am wondering about something;

if you get a contracted load with a low or unrealistic FSC, how much do you actually get?

Like $1.30 a mile?

The second wonder is;

Why are you even tolerating low FSCs?

and the third wonder is;

has the acceptance rate for these loads dropped at all or is panther brokering them out to off load them to make money?

 

[TwoMotherTrkrs]

Panther Folks, please help by correcting or clarifying my post if you see this differently!

In answer to Greg’s questions…

We get our contracted rate + FSC (which varies on each load). Because FSCs fluctuate pretty wildly (remember, they are voluntary for the customer), we must make the best business decision we can make in determining a load to be profitable, just making expenses, or a real loser, and then accept or refuse accordingly. When we refuse a load it affects our Acceptance stats.

If we are the only truck in an area, and they really want the load ‘covered’, and if it is more profitable for Panther to pay a bonus to us rather than pay deadhead to bring in another truck from farther out, they will sometimes offer a bonus or ask “What would it take to get you to take this load”?

If multiple trucks are in the same area, no bonus is offered to the first truck and that truck drops from ‘first out’ to the bottom of the list. Panther then goes down the list until they find a truck to accept the load. Trucks that refuse the load drop to the bottom of the list in succession.

As they go deeper into the list, they begin to ‘sweeten’ the offer, but in our experience, they never go back to the original truck to offer them the ‘sweetener’. I see this as a problem because the original truck would perhaps have accepted the load if the same ‘sweetener’ had been offered! Now you’ve got a truck at the bottom of the list, Acceptance stats have been affected negatively, and the truck has to work its way back up to ‘first out’ before another load is offered. Talk about ‘dwell time’!

If Panther reaches the bottom of the list without finding a Panther truck to accept the load, as a last resort, they could decide to broker the load. In my opinion Panther does not broker for profit, but some Customer Service reps write loads that just can’t be covered by Panther contractors.

Last I knew, dispatchers had, as part of their ratings things like: load refusals, load acceptance, gross profit, etc.

I can’t tell you how this has affected the fleet's Acceptance rate. I can tell you that ours suffers because we want to keep our business viable, and that requires that we not take unprofitable loads.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Gee whizz! My D unit doesn't get 10mpg. I know this because in the 4 1/2 years I've been paying for quarterly fuel tax reports from Panther, I've NEVER averaged 10mpg for any quarter. I realize that I have extra weight with my liftgate and tag axle, not to mention all my Elite Services equipment, but this is special equipment that Panther values. How many D units do average 10mpg per quarter? How 'bout typical C units? Do they average 10mpg? B units? Do Sprinters and Cargo Vans get comparable mileage? Panther has the data for EVERY unit, so why don't they use the data they have compiled to pay based on actual facts?

Panther has always said that the Fuel Surcharge (FSC) is voluntary for the entity that is paying for the load, unless it is a customer who has signed a contract, ie. GM @ $0.179/mi. Soooo, are they gonna tell the customers who voluntarily pay $0.449/mi that they don't want the extra money? If not, how does the law that says he/she who pays for the fuel gets the FSC apply?

I have to believe the Sprinter class is the most profitable at this moment in time. If you figure we average about 22-26 mpg's and base rate of $1.00/m. The FSC this week for us is sitting at .18 and straights at .27. At my average mpg's my break point was $3.03 per gallon. At this point I have to pay for the fuel.

 

[charlee]

Ok the low down on the TEST FSC program is as follows:


Panther will pay a flat rate FSC to get your cost for a gallon of diesel fuel down to 1.20 a gallon.


The mpg set up as of right now are


6 mpg tractor

9 mpg for strait truck

11 mpg cargo van


This program is OPTIONAL, noone will be forced into this.

As far as how the heck you get .12 fsc as having anything to do whatsoever with the TEST FSC program is beyond me. You got offered a NLM big 3 load that was not even a E unit load. Simply a bad load...not a conspiracy.We all get offered them at one time or another because there are drivers out there that will run them...if everyone refuses to run them, they will have to change, until then, we reap what we sow.


-charlee

 

[LDB]

I'm confused. You say 22-26mpg and .18fsc. 22*18 is $3.96 so where does the $3.03 come in?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Sorry Leo...it's a floating number as prices fluctuate.

Example: 500m. x22mpg = 22.72 gallons

22.72 x 3.95 = $89.74

FSC .18 x 500 = $90.00....I would pocket .26.

If I get 24mpg. It would cost $82.27 for fuel, hence netting me $7.73!

If I take this profit and apply it to some of the cheap NLM loads it helps offset the per mile cost.

I'll add my 2 cents..I think P2 knows these numbers and thats why there is no upgrade to a Sprinter rate....they wouldn't want Turtle making too much money!!

 

[greg334]

Two Mother Truckers Thanks,
Well I am still puzzled by how they expect you to make money or do they?

We get our contracted rate + FSC (which varies on each load). Because FSCs fluctuate pretty wildly (remember, they are voluntary for the customer), we must make the best business decision we can make in determining a load to be profitable, just making expenses, or a real loser, and then accept or refuse accordingly. When we refuse a load it affects our Acceptance stats.

OK, I understand that many of the customers have voluntary FSC but in reality this does nothing for the company, the industry and actually hurts the customers in the long run. I know that Panther is aggressive in their sales; I wish FedEx was as just a small percentage of aggressive but that another thread. I think that they maybe just waking up to the fact that a blanket FSC would be better than none at all – like FedEx.

If we are the only truck in an area, and they really want the load ‘covered’, and if it is more profitable for Panther to pay a bonus to us rather than pay deadhead to bring in another truck from farther out, they will sometimes offer a bonus or ask “What would it take to get you to take this load”?

If multiple trucks are in the same area, no bonus is offered to the first truck and that truck drops from ‘first out’ to the bottom of the list. Panther then goes down the list until they find a truck to accept the load. Trucks that refuse the load drop to the bottom of the list in succession.

I’m sorry; the word bonus has to be a joke because you are contractors, right? There is no bonus because that is an employee incentive thing but I understand the purpose, it is just funny to hear.

OK to me their dispatching is not the best, it seems to me, an outsider that punishing someone for refusing something that is not a business feasible is just wrong.

As they go deeper into the list, they begin to ‘sweeten’ the offer, but in our experience, they never go back to the original truck to offer them the ‘sweetener’. I see this as a problem because the original truck would perhaps have accepted the load if the same ‘sweetener’ had been offered! Now you’ve got a truck at the bottom of the list, Acceptance stats have been affected negatively, and the truck has to work its way back up to ‘first out’ before another load is offered. Talk about ‘dwell time’!

If Panther reaches the bottom of the list without finding a Panther truck to accept the load, as a last resort, they could decide to broker the load. In my opinion Panther does not broker for profit, but some Customer Service reps write loads that just can’t be covered by Panther contractors.

It sounds like what appears is that dispatchers have the privilege to judge which trucks can get loads, Leo don’t bother to justify the hard working dispatchers. If the system was such as you can go back the original truck and give them some incentive, then I can see the fairness but…..

I think that Panther makes money regardless where the load lands.

Last I knew, dispatchers had, as part of their ratings things like: load refusals, load acceptance, gross profit, etc.

I can’t tell you how this has affected the fleet's Acceptance rate. I can tell you that ours suffers because we want to keep our business viable, and that requires that we not take unprofitable loads.

So I assume that you mean rating, the truck or owner stats, right?

If the dispatcher has access to gross profits of the trucks, that is a very bad system. It can be used to play games with trucks and should not be there to determine who gets an offer.

But back to my wonderings;

How many Panther trucks out there without FSC or overall $1.3 a mile on loads they take?

 

[davekc]

How many Panther trucks out there without FSC or overall $1.3 a mile on loads they take

None that I am aware of if you are talking about straights or tractors.
No clue on what the vans are doing.

 

[Moot]

When Con-Way Now sold to Panther I had the option of staying with my original contract or going with a new Panther contract. I am still running under my Con-Way contract with the fixed weekly f.s.c. based on the weekly national average price of diesel fuel published by the D.O.E. In theory this keeps my fuel cost at $1.25 based on I believe a 12 mpg figure. I run a gasser and average over 16 mpg. With the disparity between diesel and gas recently I come out ahead.

This week all loads pay my van .19/mi. f.s.c. If the customer is charged .12/mi. I still get .19. If the customer pays .38/mi. I still get .19.

My contract also pays me .80/mi. loaded. This coupled with my f.s.c. keeps me in the ballpark with the few Panther van drivers I have talked with and who I trust with their honest and accurate numbers.

Having a known fixed f.s.c. for the week eliminates one more variable in the decision making process for load acceptance. I think Con-Way may have gone this route because drivers were refusing low f.s.c. loads and they couldn't cover them.