need advice from the seasoned vets

gsmacker · Mar 30, 2009

So last wed nite I got a call from my father asking if I would be interested in a job back on the farm. I told him that I wanted to sit down and put something down on paper and talk things out before any decisions were made. Also I let my owner/co driver know so that incase I decided to take the job he had about 2 weeks to try and find another driver. Well the meeting today went well and I took the offer(I called and let the co driver/owner know and now he is trying to say that I owe him for the extra milage on the truck for where "we met in the middle" to go out on the road and some and I me only a few, for dropping me off at my personal truck so I could go home. I mean I have proof that I was the co driver on the last few hauls and what not but if there is no real contract wrote down than I am pretty much SOL on my last two pay periods arent I??? Is this common??

Slo-Ride · Mar 30, 2009

I aint no Judge in a court of law,,but if you worked for that owner and he owes you 2 weeks wages he has to pay it...In Michigan(I assume your in mich) he or she has to pay all wages due to you I beleive,,contract or no contract....Any proplems,, Bro send me
private message and I can but you direct touch with a guy at the Fed. Labor Adm.. Worst comes to worst it will cost him or her way more then your 2 weeks wages trying to defend himself...Wont cost you a dime to have the case heard...

You do have proof of working,,,log books,,B/ladings etc etc save em all...You may not be SOL unless you give in to him,,which propley is what the owner is hoping ya do..
Sounds like your better off on the farm with DAd anyways..I cant see how he can charge you for travel,,,like ya said,,no concract,you dont owe him nothing....
Call the FEDS

,,,,Like I said it will only cost him

gjmcclain · Mar 30, 2009

My thought, yes, your out of luck without details spilled out in a contract laying out such cases.

Its to bad in your case since you even gave the notice, but, its' a common mistake many of us have done in the past - working without a contract agreement with our owner.

Thats why drivers shouldn't work for any owner without a contract, afterall an owner wouldn't work with a carrier without the same.

My feeling is, if an owner doesn't want to sign a contract with a driver, walk away.......you have no one to blame for a problem if you drive without one.

BUT, like the other post before me said, you have nothing to lose by going to the feds......if nothing else, give it one good solid shot!

aristotle · Mar 30, 2009

gsmacker said:
So last wed nite I got a call from my father asking if I would be interested in a job back on the farm. I told him that I wanted to sit down and put something down on paper and talk things out before any decisions were made. Also I let my owner/co driver know so that incase I decided to take the job he had about 2 weeks to try and find another driver. Well the meeting today went well and I took the offer(I called and let the co driver/owner know and now he is trying to say that I owe him for the extra milage on the truck for where "we met in the middle" to go out on the road and some and I me only a few, for dropping me off at my personal truck so I could go home. I mean I have proof that I was the co driver on the last few hauls and what not but if there is no real contract wrote down than I am pretty much SOL on my last two pay periods arent I??? Is this common??

grannysmacker... I hate to be the bearer of bad news. I have heard this same story before. No positive outcome.. The guy intends to keep your wages.

greg334 · Mar 30, 2009

Make sure you have your logs, make sure you have receipts and other proof before continuing. It may cost you more money to get it out of the person and you may have to claim it as a loss on your taxes but one thing as mentioned, do not ever work without a contract.

wellarmed · Mar 30, 2009

Sounds to me someone has lost a good partener and this is his way of lashing out,if I were him I would not burn a bridge you may need to go back across,working with family sounds better than it is sometimes.Good luck,hope the family thing works out.

OntarioVanMan · Mar 30, 2009

Can't he make a claim in small claims court? Do you have that here?

greg334 · Mar 30, 2009

OntarioVanMan said:
Can't he make a claim in small claims court? Do you have that here?

Yea he can but it depends on the state and what records he has. It may be also a hassle seeing the other guy is making a claim against him.

OntarioVanMan · Mar 30, 2009

greg334 said:
Yea he can but it depends on the state and what records he has. It may be also a hassle seeing the other guy is making a claim against him.

I must have missed where he said the other guy was making a claim? Where did you read that?

You don't need a lawyer to do that down here do you?
Or just go and make out a statement of claim and pay a fee..

Slo-Ride · Mar 30, 2009

OntarioVanMan said:
I must have missed where he said the other guy was making a claim? Where did you read that?

Thinking it was referring to where owner is going to charge him for travel to pick him up and drop him off???

Federal labor board will never charge ya for a case they agree to take on..its free if they feel you where done wrong by an employer..they will look at the case and advise ya right off the bat..

davekc · Mar 30, 2009

If he is a independent contractor, I don't see the Federal Labor Board getting involved. Their function is employees. If the lead driver was paying his SS and other employee costs, then it might apply. As a contract driver, small claims is your route if you have the appropriate documentation. It is always better to have a contract, but if you don't, then it would be up to the individual judge hearing your case. Lot of variables at that point.

pjjjjj · Mar 31, 2009

Not being a fleet owner, perhaps I'm being unfair to imagine this, but you hire a new co-driver, you travel x number of miles to go and meet him half-way; the new co changes his mind fairly quickly, wants to see about going to work back at home with his family, needs to be dropped off to his truck after x amount of time put in with you.

Not sure if co is giving any notice, or the required notice that was agreed to beforehand.

Now the owner is no longer a team, is back to being a solo, and has racked up a pile of miles going to pick up this guy in the first place, and then dropping him off maybe less than 2 months later. Should the driver not reimburse the owner for that fuel?

Sounds like the owner was willing to spend that fuel money, wear and tear, and time, to have the benefit of a team, but it didn't work out. Same as when you leave a carrier before a certain length of time, some carriers will expect to be reimbursed for some of their costs (decals, QC install, etc?).

Sure, it should have all been spelled out in a contract, ie, you get this much, 20%, and no, you don't get paid if the truck isn't getting paid, even if you have to drive deadhead miles to get loads; and yes, if I drive half way across the country to be nice and meet you half way so that 'you' can save the fuel money, and then you end up quitting in less than 6 mos, you can reimburse me for meeting half way; and yes, if I am nice enough to drive you back to your truck when you quit in less than 6 months, instead of making you take a bus, then yes, you can also reimburse me for that.

I don't know about anyone else, and maybe I'm just an ogre in disguise, but I can't really see a lot wrong with that. So there's no contract, people can still be fair.

Oilerman1957 · Mar 31, 2009

davekc said:
If he is a independent contractor, I don't see the Federal Labor Board getting involved. Their function is employees. If the lead driver was paying his SS and other employee costs, then it might apply. As a contract driver, small claims is your route if you have the appropriate documentation. It is always better to have a contract, but if you don't, then it would be up to the individual judge hearing your case. Lot of variables at that point.

A contract driver that has no contract, interesting. I would think there would have to be a contract to even be a Independent Contractor.

davekc · Mar 31, 2009

Oilerman1957 said:
A contract driver that has no contract, interesting. I would think there would have to be a contract to even be a Independent Contractor.

If there is nothing on paper, then it would be a verbal one.

Oilerman1957 · Mar 31, 2009

And is a verbal one worth anything {really, just asking}

Slo-Ride · Mar 31, 2009

Oilerman1957 said:
And is a verbal one worth anything {really, just asking}

I'm thinking a verbal agreement can be legal,,especailly if there are witnesss,others that will testify,,past practices,,all these would enter into proving a case...

highway star · Mar 31, 2009

Gs says he can prove he was co-driver on the "last few hauls". That makes it sound like he didn't stay with the guy very long at all. If that's the case, I'm with Pj. The owner should recoup costs involved with putting this guy on. And, without question, listen up newbs. Get it in WRITING!!!

x06col · Mar 31, 2009

Oilerman1957 said:
And is a verbal one worth anything {really, just asking}

Why, Oilerman, Isn't yer word worth anything?? (really, just asking)

All good tings seem to come to an end, it seems. If your owner is that cheezy to charge you for transportation, then seems he's THAT cheezy. It's jes too bad the way some squeze the nickel till the buffalo craps. Ain't fair an ain't good business. Buttt... seems i'd prolly see what I DON'T get, before I cry bout the spilled milk, THEN negotiate with the MAN, not the folks on here. Sides, what we talk'in here- - a grand or so...edmucation costs, i'd chalk it up to edumacation an go farming.

MentalGiant · Mar 31, 2009

Verbal contracts are considered legal in most states, just harder to prove if you go to court. That is where the judge will hear both sides and take any documentations and any witnesses that were there at the time of the agreement. Then the judge will take everything in consideration that has been brought forth and the judge will take the laws that are effective for that certain situation and make a determination. It may not go well for either side, depending on the judge, because the judge may make a determination on they believe who may be in the wrong or right. Which they have the right to do so, since it was a verbal agreement and they have to decide on who is telling the truth or not. That is why its always best to have a signed contract.

My only thoughts on this certain situation is, did you and the owner agree that you will drive for a certain amount of time? That will be the big issue. If not, then you might have something that will work for you, but it would be hard for you to give proof of that, especially if the owner claims that is what you and him/her agreed upon.

Slo-Ride · Mar 31, 2009

I may have missed spoke on the Federal labor board after reading a bit I found they will not help a person that quite his job voluntarily,,,
So here is a copy and paste that I found on another site that may help guide him,,,allot of reading ahead of ya bro,,
G/Luck

Recordkeeping & Reporting
Question: I didn't get my last paycheck. What can I do?

Answer: Employers are not required by federal law to give former employees their final paycheck immediately. Some states, however, may require immediate payment. If the regular payday for the last pay period an employee worked has passed and the employee has not been paid, contact the Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division or the state labor department. DOL also has mechanisms in place for the recovery of back wages.

United States Department of Labor: Frequently Asked Questions