As do many of today's adults. Come to think of it, it's been going on for years. You paint a broad brush with your condemnation of everything.
Nearly 35,000 Ford workers sign grievance over pay
- Thread starter clcooper
- Start date
As do many of today's adults. Come to think of it, it's been going on for years. You paint a broad brush with your condemnation of everything.
bobwg
Expert Expediter
Too many people of all ages choosing lazy with their hands out looking for the govt to give them something
clcooper
Expert Expediter
yes these type of people dont need that . but what about the people like me that is not afraid to work. yes the union people have gotten lasy and what little work for more money .
greg334
Veteran Expediter
It isn't just people expecting to get something from the government, it is a lot of them expecting things from everyone.
One example is somewhat sad. A kid graduates with a computer science degree from a university with crappy grades. He has an interview at Compuware four months after he graduates. He has no connections to depend on nor does he have the grades to carry him. The university isn't known for their computer science degrees, to be exact it is one of the best civil engineering schools around. In the interview, he is asked a bunch of questions about situations which he answers the same way, "I would have them work it out" or "I would work it out with that person". He goes through the computer skills test and has little problems with that but when he was asked what he expected to make, he replies "I want to start out at $70,000 and than get a raise to $80,000" He didn't get the job.
Another example is my wife's friend has a daughter who is in a desperate need of a job to help pay the rent. Every time I set her up for an interview, she blows it by asking for money that more than they are willing to pay. The last time she went for an interview at a friends place, she asked for $12 an hour as a presser. She expects the money and we all explained to her she isn't going to get it unless she works her way up to it.
clcooper
Expert Expediter
how were the slaves treated . the worked in the field all day . got a roof over their head and food . did they pay for any of it NO . today we get paid to work we pay for the roof and our food . what else is left over ???
remember when it was only DAD who had to go out to work and MOM was able to stay home with the kids . yes one person was able to have more then 1 kid at that time . what happened that MOMs had to go to work . to keep after the bill too . but now with 2 people working they cant make do any more .
just like what you said about the pit bulls .
witness23
Veteran Expediter
Are you advacating they quit?
Sure sounds like it.
Now you say they are lazy?
Now i'm totally confused.
Are you supporting the workers or not?
clcooper
Expert Expediter
i agree work your way up prove you are worth more . nobody should have any connections to depend on to get any type of job . only get the job if you are able to do it . not because you blew somebody to get it . you would not hire a welder to fix your roof would you . just because the welder slept with you ???
witness23
Veteran Expediter
Did you possibly think greg meant that his wifes friend actually was blowing people to get a job when he said this:
And I'm not even sure how to respond to the whole sleeping with a welder to fix your roof thing
Yeah, slaves got a roof over their head, and food. <snort>
Unsanitary conditions, inadequate nutrition and unrelenting hard labor made slaves highly susceptible to disease. Illnesses were generally not treated adequately, if at all, and slaves were often forced to work even when sick. The rice plantations were the most deadly. Black people had to stand in water for hours at a time in the sweltering sun. Malaria was rampant. Child mortality was extremely high on these plantations, generally between 66% on the low end, and as high as 90% on the high end. Slapping a bumper on pickup truck this was not.
Women slaves had to endure the threat and the common practice of brutal sexual exploitation, of being sexually stalked, harassed, or raped, or to be used as long-term concubines by masters and overseers alike. The abuse was widespread, as the men with authority took advantage of their situation. She had no choice. She was property. Slave men were powerless to protect the women they loved.
Even the bestest most goodest master could incur a financial loss or other personal crisis, which often meant one or more slaves were sold for cash or other considerations. And although the economic self-interest on the part of the owners generally encouraged keeping mothers and children and sometimes fathers together, these norms were not always followed, as immediate families were often separated. If they were kept together, they were almost always sold away from their extended families. Grandparents, sisters, brothers, and cousins could all find themselves forcibly scattered, never to see each other again. Even if they or their loved ones were never sold, slaves had to live with the constant threat that they could be. I've never heard of Ford selling someone's child or sister to Chrysler or GM.
Slaves were considered property, not people, and were treated as such. Slaves could not testify in court against a white, make contracts, leave the plantation without permission, strike a white, even in self-defense, buy and sell goods, own firearms, possess any anti-slavery literature, or visit the homes of whites or free blacks. The killing of a slave was not considered to be murder, and the rape of slave women by a white was treated as a mild form of trespassing.
Slaves were punished for not working fast enough, for being late getting to the fields, for defying authority, for running away, and for a number of other reasons. They weren't docked a day's pay or suspended for a week, or heaven forbid, "written up" or anything as harsh as that. The punishments included whippings, torture, mutilation, imprisonment, and being sold away from the plantation. Sometimes they were just murdered.
So, when you say, "kind of sounds like being treated like a slave," I say, no, not even close to being treated like a slave.
Did you possibly think greg meant that his wifes friend actually was blowing people to get a job when he said this:
And I'm not even sure how to respond to the whole sleeping with a welder to fix your roof thing
I'm not convinced he knows where he stands on any issue.
clcooper
Expert Expediter
ok so i am off by 10% off being treated like slaves . was the slaves treated fair . are people being treated fair today
and what does KIND OF sounds like mean to you .does it mean 100% sounds like . or do you think it means close to.
because slavery will never happen agian because it only happens in fairy tale land
SO WITH ALL OF THAT I GUESS WE ARNT BEING TREAT LIKE SLAVES TODAY so next time dispatch calls you with aload paying 75 cents a loaded mile . with 100 DH to a dead area
Turtle think of this the same way you think about the pit bulls
clcooper
Expert Expediter
Did you possibly think greg meant that his wifes friend actually was blowing people to get a job when he said this:
And I'm not even sure how to respond to the whole sleeping with a welder to fix your roof thing
ok i will make this a little easier for you to read . if you need me to slow down even more let me know
nobody should have any connections to depend on to get any type of job .
only get the job if you are able to do it .
not because you blew somebody to get it .
you would not HIRE a welder to FIX your roof would you . just because the welder slept with you ???
Did you possibly think greg meant that his wifes friend actually was blowing people to get a job when he said this:
And I'm not even sure how to respond to the whole sleeping with a welder to fix your roof thing
What kind of nonsense is this?
Its not anyore like pit bulls than it is slavery. The examples you gave above aren't even remotely close to slavery, either. "Forced" to work when sick? Not even. They have a choice. Yes, its a real shame that we don't live under Marxism where everybody is just as rich as everyone else, but because we don't doesn't mean its kinda like, or even remotely like slavery.
clcooper
Expert Expediter
I'm not convinced he knows where he stands on any issue.
and that is what i see of you . you are easily confused
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out." - Richard Dawkins
i think too many are so open-minded that their brains droped out
we are humans and all put our pants on the same way . why should one type be treat poorly because they are not just like you or have the money like you .
if the companies want to treat the worker like **** the i say let the companies do their own work then .
what is the right way to treat another person ??? what if they are differant then you ??? what if they dont have as much money as you do ??? what if they had a bad life ?? so if they are differant then you treat them like **** . if they dont have as much money as you treat them like **** ??
clcooper
Expert Expediter
and what you said about slavery was just the slavery in the USA . is that the only slavery ever ??? oh and show me proof that the slaves were treated the way you say they were .
because i dont believe that the USA government would ever let something like that ever to happen here . because people treat other people better then that people never rape other people or whipped other people either . i have never seen a person with a whiped up back . so it must never happened .
i think slaves build the wall of china . oh that right if they wanted to keep the land they already owned the had to work on the wall for a few years to keep it . and what did the use back in that time to fight their wars . slaves . darn who do we send to fight the wars now . the ones that were born with the spoon in their mouth or their a$$s. and how are they being treated today . didnt i just read that a 86 year old WWll Vet had to find a job to pay his bills . AND YOU SAY THAT SLAVERY IS NOT HAPPENING TODAY . just because we arent being whipped or our wifes arent being rape today doesnt mean it isnt slavery
so workers are treated 100% better since slavery was made illegal . so you saying we dont need OSHA anymore because all companies are doing every thing safe . and when the companies hire a worker and say i will pay you this and also pay this . and then after a few years the company can come back and say that we cant pay for this stuff any more .
boy so glad things are 100% better and there is no such thing of slavery today . like i said tell the coal miners that died that .
so if they miss a day of work and not get paid how are they to pay their bills . if you dont come in to work today you wont have a job is not being forced . or if you dont come in we will just replace you with somebody else that is not being forced either . oh they have a choice to sell their house and a family of 4 could live in a single room apartment . good choice.
dont worry about it now because it is not happening to you . and you choose not to see it either .
it is more like this
who is losing their jobs ?? is it the management of the banks, of the big 3 autos . it seems they are getting handed the money we paid in for taxes to bail them out. and it is still the working people who is losing their jobs .
my son has been putting the car in gear before i am in the car. i told him to leave it in park untill i am in . and i asked him why i would say that . he said some time i may not be in and the car may move because he had it in gear and i could get hurt . i said right . it is a very little thing . but it could be a very big thing some time . so why not do things to keep the odds down on seeing the big thing happening .
sorry i know some are not able to think and use this way of think with anything else .
oh that would be common sense . and it is outlawed today nobody is aloud to have any common sense .
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out." - Richard Dawkins
clcooper
Expert Expediter
"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out." - Richard Dawkins
should the working people be exterminated ?????
"""The dispute began in 2010 when Ford reinstated merit pay raises and 401(k) matches for its salaried workers, but not hourly workers""
so if you look at it this way the white got reinstated merit pay raises and 401(k) matches. but the black slaves didnt . but i guess it still is not close enough to call it slavery because nobody got whipped or raped .
here is a update
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011110622021
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No, it wasn't.
Go to any high school of your choice, ask them to borrow a text book about US History, and then open it up and read it. You can also look in the archives of the newspapers of the day, read letters from both slaves and slave owners (including the letters of Thomas Jefferson) about conditions during the times of slavery. You can also visit the First National Bank in Huntsville, Alabama, built in the 1830s, and see the slave quarters in the rear of the building with a basement level for the detention of slave property in case of mortgage default. You'll see where slaves were thrown into a dank basement vault, held as collateral, to be sold off, if their owners defaulted on a mortgage.
Yeah, that's why this country passed laws, not to mention fought a Civil War to abolish slavery.
Now you're just being either stupid or ignorant. The latter can be fixed.
Just because someone racked up bills they can't pay for doesn't mean it is, either.
No, overall I'd say workers are treated either about the same, or maybe slightly better than workers were treated back when slavery was legal. I'd say that workers today are treated 1000% better than slaves were, tho.
No, I don't believe I said anything of the sort. But I will say that an unsafe workplace does not equal slavery. If it did, then everybody on "Deadliest Catch", including the boat owner/captains would be slaves, 'cause that's one dangerous workplace. If you work someplace that's unsafe, you know what you can do? QUIT. As a slave, do you know what you can do about an unsafe workplace? Nothing.
Again, not slavery. If you don't like it, you can always quit.
Nobody forced a coal miner into applying for and accepting a job as a coal miner.
Perhaps I'm moving too fast and assuming too much. Do you even know what the definition of a slave is? A slave is a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another, or is entirely (meaning 100%) under the domination of some influence or person. If you can quit a job, you're not a slave. If you choose to stay in a job that you don't like, you're not a slave, either.
By better managing their money and living within their means. Or, they simply don't pay their bills. If a caveman is sick and cannot go out and kill something and drag it home, they don't eat, either, unless they have prepared for such a thing and have some food saved up somewhere.
No, it's not. If you don't come in to work today you will be beaten, tortured or killed, that's being forced.
Correct. As Layout aptly noted, business are in business to make products and money. They are not in the business of ensuring that someone has a job, or to ensure that others have the life they THINK they deserve. The jobs that are developed from the business are there only to meet the goals of the business, not the goals, hopes and dreams workers. To suggest otherwise is pure Marxism.
Key word - CHOICE. They probably shouldn't have bought that house in the first place.
It happens to me every day. It's called life, and I see it just fine.
Not fair, perhaps, but not slavery, either.
Ah, Richard Dawkins, "Darwin's Rotweiler", a favorite of Christians everywhere. <snort> Most people who use that quote really don't even understand what it means. More often than not people who use the quote try to use it to say that "you should be open minded and believe what I believe in, and if you don't, then you have no brains."
But he said that in a lecture in the context of science and evolutionary biology and of the paranormal (Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder, 1996, BBC Television), and was discussing the need to be open-minded to new ideas, but not so open-minded that critical thinking and reasoning should give way to blind faith and simple parroting of an idea simply because it already fits a preconceived notion or belief.
You mean like someone else said about pit bulls? No, working people shouldn't be exterminated any more than the pit bull breed should be exterminated.
Well, if you look at it that way, it's still not close enough to call it slavery, but not because nobody got whipped or raped, but rather because the "black slaves" as you call them can just quit their job if they don't like it. No one, and I mean no one, is being forced against their will to work for Ford, especially when you consider that this grievance is over a dispute with the contract between Ford and the UAW, and slaves cannot enter into a contract.
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