My intent was never to upset the board

[DougTravels]

A now locked thread I started (authority issues) was never intended to upset anyone. It was intended to discuss 3 (I believe it was 3) of the rules of conduct. The only reason I started it was, I actually wanted to talk about someone who was banned for 90 days. I had remembered seeing that this was not allowed. This person I had read many of their posts and sided with most of their views. I had never seen any of their posts(doesn't mean they don't exist) that were out of line or in violation of the rules. So in not being able to talk about their banning I thought a good discussion might be about the rule.

So before I posted I reread the rules and found 2 more that struck me as either unneccessary or extreme (simply my opinion).

After the post I was lambasted by senior members, moderators and administration. With the jist of responses being, don't like it leave, it is their site to do with as they please. That's ok, that is what forums are for. The free exchange of thoughts and ideas.

I defended myself in a manner which I don't believe was out of line and not in violation of any of the rules. I was also attacked by some guy I have never met and do not know near the end of the thread with lies saying that I use the "N" word reguarlly and this is simply not the case.(I believe he was either put up to or is another name used by someone I was arguing with, I have no proof simply my feeling)

Yes, I did change the direction of the thread with my pointing out of a racist remark made by a member and a funny little racist skit made by a moderator. Both of which were not openly condemmed by administration here. The moderator who wrote "the skit" even defended it with something about it was ok because people talk about Mexicans too (please read the thread and his defense for yourself). I guess it wasn't clear and the rule about not discussing a banning tied into why I started the thead, so when I saw uncondemmed remarks it made me wonder what basis this site uses for banning?

I'm looking for feedback here, Not just by the same old people with thousands of posts but by regular readers. My question is do you feel I was out of line, and or in violation of the rules of conduct? Also do you think the rules themselves are something that is allowed to be discussed?

I have not posted for a couple of days I would be in violation if I said why, I'll just say it wasn't by choice.

The 2 threads that led up to my "2 day abscence" were in General Catagory and were Where's greg334 and one about watching cash advances.

I really hope I haven't broken any rules or enraged any members or the board.

Doug

 

[pjjjjj]

I remmmmmember whennnnnnnnnn.. (hear my creaky old voice?)..
Many many years ago, when I first started playing on the internet.. it was all new to me.. and I didn't know how things worked.. and I was much younger then, and I kinda had somewhat of an attitude .. and I was having loads of fun with myself.. hehe
But the chatroom where I was havin all my fun was filled with people who knew how things worked, knew the rules, etc.. and altho 'some' of them were also having fun with me.. some of them were downright nasty.. I had to take it in the ear a few times.
So I asked the question.. "well what do they think they are? do they think they own this place or something? it's the internet!"
And I was told with a resounding YES THEY OWN THE PLACE!
I had no idea that a public place, on the world wide web, had places that people owned and could control. So then I knew!

This obviously isn't the same, but the point is, yes, someone owns this place, has control, can do what they want, the rules aren't up for grabs, and of course, you can stay or leave. As was mentioned before, you are certainly welcome to create your own forum and website and have whatever rules or lack of them you wish.

I don't think all of the members here would ever all agree about every issue, or what's allowed, or who overstepped the line, but obviously your pal did overstep the line, in the owner-of-this-site's opinion. So get over it. Ninety days will zoom by.

You aren't going to change anything by rehashing and rehashing this.. even if you were able to obtain a few supporters. It isn't their site. Period.

As for your other concern.. sometimes in life things go on in a certain industry.. and the people who aren't in the industry wouldn't know a thing about them.. but they might be talked about and witnessed by a whole pile of those who are actually dealing with it.. and there might become a stereotyped image made of the situation.. and jokes might fly, to make light of the situation.. and it might not necessarily be talked about openly in a public forum..
Life is full of prejudices, for one reason or another.. and altho nobody likes to admit they have any of their own prejudices, everyone does have them, and has their own reasons for them. Something else we have to get over sometimes. A joke was made, politically incorrect, nobody was singled out to be the brunt of that joke, nobody was personally hurt as an individual. As you can see from many posts on this site, there are a LOT of prejudices out there, and these people are allowed to speak freely, in a certain forum, up to a point.
Oh, and while I'm at it.. would you really like to have what you felt to be confidential and personal correspondence with someone, anyone, moderator, member, or whoever, only to find out they had forwarded your information to others? How would you feel then?

 

[DougTravels]

I've read your response 3 times and still wonder if you answered my questions, I think you are saying that no the rules are not to be discussed and yes I was out of line for talking about them, and racist comments are ok as long as you don't name the people specifically. Is that right?

 

[pjjjjj]

I'm saying you can discuss the rules til the cows come home and it isn't going to matter, you don't own the site.
I'm saying, you've stated your point, you're not going to get your way, deal with it.
I'm saying, call it racist if you like, but there are many prejudices here and everywhere, amongst everyone. If a problematic behavior is most often seen in a certain sex, or race, or religion, or hair color, or shoe size, it's still problem behavior, and depending on your personal dealings with the problematic behavior, you might start to become prejudiced yourself, by kind of starting to relate the behavior to the long hair, or whatever it is you feel is causing your grief.
There are lots of things here and everywhere which are the brunt of jokes, like sexual orientation, political affiliations, race, social status, gender, size of truck, you name it. I haven't seen you commenting on those threads. The owner of the site has put several moderators in the position to decide what's acceptable, and I guess we should let them do that.
And guess what? Sometimes there are even jokes made about Canadians, and I can still laugh.

 

[dabluzman1]

Doug, I haven't read your post or I don't remember it as being out of line.
As far as questioning things around here.......eheheheheheheheh.

Some of those who are supposed to guide and direct us often can be found in the middle of
a controversial blog. Their ball, their rules.
No-one said life was fair.

Milk toast......thats how we like it.

Always ask yourself, "What would Grammy think if she read this".

Dont want your ear pulled now do you?

 

[DougTravels]

Hope you are not angry pjj, but the fact is. I'm still asking do you or anyone see a post from me where I stepped over the line? I was banned either for talking about the rules or for pointing out a racist comment. If saying a politically incorrect comment is ok. Is responding to one ok too?

By the way none of my posts were taken down and I did not receive a PM explaining my violation.

 

[pjjjjj]

Me angry? Nope.
You seem to me to be argumentative and unwilling to accept an answer you were given by the powers that be. Kinda like one of those dogs who nips at your ankle and won't let go.
A thread was locked, and yet you have brought the issues up again. Why? Because you don't like the responses you were given.
It doesn't matter what I think, or what anyone else thinks, but personally, I found your posts fairly sarcastic, having definite power/control issues, pushing the limits, annoying in that you wouldn't let it go, and demanding that others answer you. You aren't in a position to be making demands. The powers that be don't have to give you reasons, especially concerning decisions made regarding others.
This seems kinda silly, to keep it going like this. We don't all agree all the time and that's just ok. When you create your own site with your own members and your own rules, you can make the big decisions.

 

[highway star]

I think Pj's got a good handle on things here.

I didn't see the post that caused the banning that started your rant, but being familiar with that posters repeated personal attacks on Greg, I have no doubt that it was warranted. Then a guy that's only been around a couple of months, with a handful of posts, stirs the pot with cries of censorship. A guy that agreed to the rules of the house. It's happened before, and the simple fact is that the rules are the rules. So, maybe there was a bit of heavy handedness with you to stop something that's unproductive and potentially divisive.

When EO started, there was one other expediting website and it wasn't moderated. The amount of crap you had to read to get to anything with any kind of substance was unbelievable. That site's no longer around. The rules, IMHO, are good. It's like societal structure, it's what makes us civilized. As time goes on, you'll see that this kind of controversy is very rare. A big reason for that is that the Mods do allow a very fair amount of latitude. It's not always the "letter of the law".

In closing, (the gallery erupts in cheers of joy), there's not going to be total freedom here. But hopefully you'll hang around and see that that isn't so bad.

 

[cheri1122]

Pjjjj & Highway Star are talking sense, Doug - they 'get it', and it looks like you don't. Or you just don't want to. Either way, the decision of the Mods is final, and you don't get an appeal, ok? If that's a condition that you cannot abide by, then this site will have to get along without you. We'd like you to continue, but it's your call. The Mods here do an excellent job for the most part, balancing our right to express opinions with the need for civility. If you disagree with their decisions, then you can deal with it, or retire - as Pjjjjjj said, arguing your point won't help at all.
I hope you'll decide to stay.

 

[Jefferson3000]

Hey Doug.

You were never "lambasted" by mods and senior members. You said there and here that you wanted to "discuss" the issues. Is it only discussion if everyone agrees with your view, but lambasting if they don't? You will see many senior members that are protective of this board (as are others) simply because we do "get it", as Cheri pointed out. These people you were "lambasted" by were very civil in their disagreement with you, due in part to the Rules of Conduct that you agreed to when you signed up. You certainly wouldn't have gotten such generous conduct from an unmoderated site. As for wishing to discuss the Rules, you sure don't get to discuss the rules at MY house when you come over. You either comply, or don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya! I suspect it's very similar here.

So they banned ya, but obviously gave you a second chance. Now you are gonna use your second chance simply to try and defend your actions? How lame!

 

[Lawrence]

I'm almost afraid to post this but....

I'm standing in awe.

And feeling grateful at how far we have come on EO in 9 1/2 years.

What we are seeing here is - industry folks managing the community.

I have a renewed commitment to make your time on this site better and more enjoyable.

Thank you for folks. Thank you.

 

[Turtle]

I agree completely with Pj, even though she's Canadian.

Americans cross the southern border into a backwards country for cheap shopping, gas, & liquor.
Canadians do the same thing.

Especially where she says, "This seems kinda silly, to keep it going like this," which is the very reason the other thread got locked. And Dreamer even said as much. He said give it a rest (because it was unproductive, was going anywhere or accomplishing anything), and you wouldn't.

To maybe help answer your questions, you state: "I defended myself in a manner which I don't believe was out of line and not in violation of any of the rules."
But when you posted, "Keep up the good work Moderators!" which was dripping with sarcasm, that's gonna be viewed, every time, as challenging the moderators and their decisions, and the Code of Conduct says you can't do that. If you wanna challenge a moderator or one of their decisions, that's what PM's and e-mails are for. I know I've certainly been a PITA via PM's a time or two.

Another comment that I'll make on something that obviously set you off on this was you commenting on a racist remark and a racist 'skit', of which neither were racist. Just because you mention someone of another race, doesn't make it racist, even if it's mentioned in humor. Fact is, the whole notion of a coos-coos taco is hilarious, and the reason it's funny is the same reason that anything is funny, because it's close to the truth. The closer a joke is to the truth, the funnier it is, and this industry certainly has more than it's share of a recent influx of people who eat coos-coos and people who eat tacos. But that doesn't make it racist if you joke about it. Sheesh.

The concept of coos coos tacos is a particularly funny one, at least coming from a food perspective, since coos coos is essentially pasta (coarsely ground semolina wheat) and is usually served in the same way rice is, with meat and/or vegetables under or over the coos coos. From a culinary standpoint, coos coos is used in the same manner as a taco shell, which is to accompany the meat and vegetables. So a coos coos taco is like a pasta-filled taco. Yum. <blech>

But the coos coos is from the Middle East and the Taco is from Mexico, both foreign lands, and the combination of the two, used with humor, is a great way to illustrate the ignorant, bumbling, fish-out-of-water situation that many foreigners are faced with. And it's funny.

The post that Hawk was responding to was funny. Granted, it was funnier because he spelled it turbine instead of turban, as that created a whole nuther mental image, but all he did was use the imagery of the time-wasting activities of a driver leaving a truck ON the fuel island, then having dinner, then a shower, then re-wrapping his turban, and if that wasn't enough, he then stops on the way out to talk camels (might be that he's a smoker, you don't know) and such to some of his friends. Then, the "skit" poses the question of, if a driver does that, is he discourteous to his fellow drivers?

Well, obviously, the answer is yes, and it doesn't matter if he was wearing a turban or a turbine, or what he was talking about with his friends, the time wasted was the issue. But, the brilliantly added comment at the end is what, absolutely, make the entire thing way-not racist. The comment was, "You Americans are so uptight." And that's a comment that perfectly illustrates the differences in cultures and the problem that foreigners sometimes have when coming here.

If you think about it, if anything, the "You Americans are so uptight," comment would be racist if it actually had it come from a foreigner. But the whole thing was merely an absurd example to illustrate a very real problem at truck stops these days. No one here actually believes that coos-coos taco eating drivers are the only ones who dawdle at the fuel islands, but that and its use of humor did well to illustrate the problem. You found it racist, but if you deconstruct Wally's and Hawks posts together, it's brilliantly comedic. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging and even pointing out the differences between peoples and cultures. It only becomes wrong when doing so does damage, and in this case, it didn't even come close.

The reason ethnic jokes are funny, again, is because they are by and large true, or are based on a stereotype, which are also based in the truth, and the point out the differences between groups. Simply acknowledging the differences between groups, even if you do it with humor, isn't racist. It's over-the-top politically correct, yes, but it ain't racist.

Human nature, human reactions, social structure, it's pretty fascinating, no?


A Saudi, a Russian, a North Korean, and a New Yorker were all walking down the street in New York City, when a reporter comes running up and says, "Excuse me, what is your opinion about the meat shortage?"

The Saudi says, "What's a shortage?"

The Russian says, "What's meat?"

The North Korean says, "What's an opinion?"

The New Yorker, says, "Excuse me?? What's excuse me?"


Mexico doesn't have an Olympic team. All the Mexicans who could run, jump or swim are in the United States.

 

[DougTravels]

You guys are right, I don't "get it" I asked a couple of simple questions where did I make a post worthy of a Banishing, and is it against the rules to discuss the rules. You ppl have made it perfectly clear if I don't like it here then leave. Without an official answer.

Sorry those questions are so tough maybe about 20 more posts can tell me not to let the door hit me.

 

[buckeyewildman]

You guys are right, I don't "get it" I asked a couple of simple questions where did I make a post worthy of a Banishing, and is it against the rules to discuss the rules. You ppl have made it perfectly clear if I don't like it here then leave. Without an official answer.

Sorry those questions are so tough maybe about 20 more posts can tell me not to let the door hit me.

no offense MR Doug you only seem to get it when it suits you and its a discussion as long as everyone agrees with you but let one person not agree and its just not fair and rules are rules i don,t agree with all of them but they are here for a reason and so what if the powers that be want to change them in mid stream they have there web site so i will abide by them whether i agree or disagree so if the rules are that unfair why not just leave
just my humble opinion

 

[davekc]

Doug

I believe your question was answered. It has nothing to do with whether a specific post was pulled or not.
With being here just a couple of months you might be well served to go back and reread some of your last posts.
Sometimes it isn't what you say, it is how you say it. Or, how the message is implied.
It is obvious based on posts from the other members as to how they were percieved.

 

[Tempest]

I am kinda new here too Doug and there are parts of the rules I wasnt clear on. But, a quick PM to a Mod now and then gets a response explaining. Did you try this approach or shoot straight to the open forum? I have read over your posts and while it may or may not have been your intention, sarcasm and challange are the way they come across to me. As Dave said, It's not the what it is the how. Turtle, Pj and many others have tried to explain this a dozen different ways but you still dont, or wont get it. We have been here about the same time, you and I, so this isnt coming from old members or Mods or Admins just another "average joe". The rules are there to keep this site INFORMATIVE and FRIENDLY. I dont like EVERY post here but I learn a little something from most of them. I saw a member loose their posting privilages for 90 days and thought it a little extreme (then i went and looked at previous posts and thought it should have been longer.) so I cant believe the Mods are being to tough. I do know that I read the TOS and agreed to them when I signed up so I must conduct myself accordingly, leave, or be banned, Those are the only REAL options available to us and I kinda like it here, I hope you do as well and will just let this drop.


Joe

 

[wallytrucker1]

Have read all the posts; must have missed the parts that had anything to do with expediting. I guess we should go all political, then we can disagree about something Impotent...

 

[chefdennis]

Wow! When i seen the old post, the Locked one, "Authority Issues, I know I have them", I didn't even read it cause i thought it had to do with a "DOT Authority" and since i am a lowly van driver, i didn't feel the need to even open it. Imagine a thread on the Expediting forum with the word "Authority" in the title and it being about the Mods and Admins of the forum!!

Anyhow, I still haven't read it and probably won't since i got the jest here. Doug, I feel for you cause I too "enjoy" creating issues on some forums and have been banned completely not just for 2 or 90 days. But you know what, the Mods and Admins can do as they feel, without explanation at all. Hell if they want to toss anyone just because they are having a bad day thats the way it is. As was said, you come to my house, follow the rules or don't stay. And you might not even know you screwed up when i boot you, ask a few of the guys that have come to visit my daughters!!

So I guess it is, live withit, let it go, or waste your time and 2nd chance on pizzin people off again, or leave. Its your call.

Oh and as a semi retired chef, it is "Cous Cous!", with a "U" not an "O"!! And it is **** tasty when you add some scallions, and diced bell peppers. Oh and use chicken broth instead of water, it also adds flavor!! And for a dessert side, instead of chicken broth and veggies, us cider and raisins!!

LOL, and i did enjoy the "Turbine" instead of "turban!" LOL, a hell of a "mental picture there!"

 

[Turtle]

I guess we should go all political, then we can disagree about something Impotent...

That's the most brilliant typo I have ever seen. It dwarfs the turbine incident.

 

[nightcreacher]

Now Thats Funny