My blown engine story.

billg27

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I would pull the oil pan first, it sounds like you broke a connecting rod.

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I'm leaning towards a broken piston. The fact that it lost compression first before failing. And it still had oil pressure while it was banging and clunking. I will find out! And I've sent off an oil sample from the blown engine for testing to Amsoil. Nothing in the oil visible to the eye. I've used Amsoil since buying the van 240,000 miles ago. It will be interesting to see if they take any responsibility for the failure. Claim has been started with them!
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
I'm leaning towards a broken piston. The fact that it lost compression first before failing. And it still had oil pressure while it was banging and clunking. I will find out! And I've sent off an oil sample from the blown engine for testing to Amsoil. Nothing in the oil visible to the eye. I've used Amsoil since buying the van 240,000 miles ago. It will be interesting to see if they take any responsibility for the failure. Claim has been started with them!

Are you thinking the piston broke causing the rod to drop out of the cylinder and jam the engine up?

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billg27

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Are you thinking the piston broke causing the rod to drop out of the cylinder and jam the engine up?

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Yes, pretty much like that. I think I'll find the piston broken right below the wrist pin, allowing the connecting rod to pull out of the bottom of the piston. When I get time to pull it apart, I'll take a few pictures of the insides of the engine.
 

Murraycroexp

Veteran Expediter
Or do it like Geraldo in the caves.
Get one of those cameras that you shove down the drain pipes.
Imagine the suspense!!!!! ;)
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Yes, pretty much like that. I think I'll find the piston broken right below the wrist pin, allowing the connecting rod to pull out of the bottom of the piston. When I get time to pull it apart, I'll take a few pictures of the insides of the engine.

If you pull the heads I would be interested to see what the cylinders/rings that were still good looked like with that many miles.

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billg27

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If you pull the heads I would be interested to see what the cylinders/rings that were still good looked like with that many miles.

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I didn't get home this weekend. Got to make up some lost revenue and some cash outlay. But I'll pull the heads and measure the ridge and cylinder taper next weekend. And I'll take pictures!
 

billg27

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Update on my engine swap. I drove the van with the "parts recyclers" engine over 3,000 miles this week. Great oil pressure and running temp. Had no engine leaks of any kind. Idles smoother then the old engine and has more torque and power. Stays locked in OD better now, probably because of the torque increase. Used a half quart of oil possibly because the block was tipped over and completely drained. Put in 6 quarts and it was a half quart down before I started the week. Added a full quart today.

Fuel milage increased! Got very high 16's and low 17 mpg. Worst tank was driving down to Texas at 75+ mph for hundreds of miles. That high speed tank was at 16.5+ a bit. I know, slow down and make more money! LOL

The engine I installed was from a pickup truck. Not sure if the cams are any different. Used all my old van electronics, so it still has the CV tune. Surprisingly the oil pan and exhaust manifolds were the same and didn't need to be swapped over. The intake was different because the van uses a cable and the pu uses throttle by wire. Simple swap. All sensors were exactly the same. Bolted right in.
 

billg27

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
That swap ended up being a great deal!

Cash came from my maintenance account. Sure didn't help with the lost revenue. But CIS doesn't offer lost income insurance for vans. I checked with them a long time ago. Only for straights and TT owners.
 

Murraycroexp

Veteran Expediter
Cash came from my maintenance account. Sure didn't help with the lost revenue. But CIS doesn't offer lost income insurance for vans. I checked with them a long time ago. Only for straights and TT owners.

We vanners are obviously the red-headed step-children of transportation!!
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
From reading this thread, I also agree it looks like a good deal. Something to keep in mind for other drivers, as an option, if they find themselves in a similar situation.
 

MLTransCorp

Rookie Expediter
I have two cube vans with the 6.0L vs in them. One is a 2007, the other a 2005. While out in Portland Oregon the 2007 started a lifter tick. We started driving this van as company driver in November, 20011 with 118,000 on it. We purchased it through a lease purchase agreement in June, 2012, and had it paid off in September, 2012. When the lifter tick developed, it had just a little over 425,000. After it was paid for I switched to synthetic oil. Mainly Walmart. The second unit (2005) was purchased with known oil pressure issues. I first replaced the oil pumps with the same as original at approximately 350,000 on both units, after some research, I found out that oil pressure is an issue with all these series engines, the 4.8, 6.0L. The second replacement, approximately 100,000 miles later was with the M365 higher pressure, (60#) and 33% more flow than oem. The lifter tick did not go away, so I purchased a spare engine (6.0L) from a 2004 van with 242,000 on it. Took engine home and disassembled it for inspection. The ring end gap was .024 factory spec max .020. The 2007 end gap .023. The cross hatch pattern in cylinder was just barely visible. Removed the cam, and cam bearings to check for wear. On 2007, 2nd cam bearing, #2 ( the cam bearing between the middle (#3), and the back of engine bearing, second (#1)bearing, fell out of the block. Metal outside retaining ring only thing there, all bearing material gone.
On the 2004 engine, the second #2 bearing, ( cam bearings are numbered 12321 from front of engine to back and the 3 bearings are different sizes for those who do not know) was showing wear, and needed to be replaced, cam bearings are driven into place and thus not reusable, so this part was a destructive inspection, however the bearings come in a set for approximately 40.00. The time is the biggest factor, because the engine has to be removed to do this task.
On the 2007, the intake lifter for cylinder #6 was broken, these are roller lifters, the bearings for the roller were gone, and the side support on one side was gone. The bad lifter wore off the lobe on the camshaft, making it concave, and wore the lobe on the approache, and landing sides. New camshaft 365.00 new roller lifters 120.00, new rings 120.00 new mains and rods 90.00 new oil pump (M365) 90.00, new timing set 45.00 complete gasket set 160.00. Took 16 hours to remove the engine from inside the van, removed the doghouse, and both seats. The 900.00 labor for the R&R was worth every penny you paid. There is less than 6" clearance to remove engine. Both manifolds were cracked, used the manifolds from the 2004 engine. Have pics of the camshaft, if @anyone wants to see. My son is Mechanic for Valley Transportation covered Wagon healing steel, rebuilds engines, transmission, rear ends, Sister company to Abers Truck Center in Ashland. They have been seeing a lot of cam failures around 350,000 miles in the service trucks using this engine series. I am Journeyman maintenance 1979, with ASEE in electronic engineering 1974. GM has always been known for soft camshafts, that is why I only own two gm vehicles, just could not pass up the deals I got. But knew this would probably happen. One reason that I changed to synthetic oil. Would recommend anyone to run mobile 1 15-50 in any gm product, or just straight 50 weight synthetic. I got an extra 100,000 miles in mine because of the synthetic, as for the rest of the engine, the 2004 engine had 1/2 the miles, had more sludge throughout the engine, and had Moe piston end gap wear than the 2007 with the synthetic. .024 for the 2004 with 242,000; .023 for the 2007 with 425,000.
Any questions, please ask
Ken

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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I gather from your post that you don't have an issue with changing to synthetic even if the engine has been running on conventional the whole time? The changing of oils won't make the engine wear differently and premature?
 

MLTransCorp

Rookie Expediter
I have been following synthetic oils since i was in high school, graduated in 1972. Used Klotz in my 2 cycle Yamaha in 1976, at 10.00 a quart back then. Have had five tractors on the road, 1994, 1995, Volvos with the 425 Volvo D12 in them used synthetic in them also. They originally went 12,000 miles on a filter change, and 24,000 on oil change using Rotella, and Volvo extended life oil filters, on those trucks there is three oil filters. On the cube vans, I use bosch filters, 11.00 ea. And go 12,000 miles on the filter change, and at 24,000 Chang the oil and filter, when it starts to use oil, the oil is breaking down, time to change it. The 2007 is the second engine that I used synthetic for the breakin, the first was MY 1995 Volvo, 16,000.00 for the complete in frame overhaul. Engine had 1 Million miles with Rotella, could still see the cross hatch in the liners, in all but the sixth hole, that was the dead hole, piston rings carboned into rings, liner scored badly, could have just replaced just the one liner, but the holes were only 365.00 ea. At the time, new liner, piston, and rings. Back in 1971, they ran an engine on only synthetic oil 100,000 miles, no oil change, just filters, and had documented wear of less than .001 on bearings, and I think .010 on the ring end gap.
If you read the entire post,
The 2007 had less ring end gap than the 2004. And the 2007 ran about 180,000 before switching to synthetic. So I think the end gap wear after changing was nil.at teardown, the 2007 had about 440,000 miles on it. I had replaced the rod and main bearings in both the 2005, and 2007, around 350,000 and plasticgaged the rods and mains at .003 wear. Because of the lifter parts going through the engine, there was no point on plastic gaging the bearings, but there was minimal wear, they actually looked better than the 350,000 with the exception of the metalic grooves from the lifter.
The synthetic oils today are much better than back in 1971.
Now days most manufacturers are putting synthetic oils in the engines they use. Most transmissions and differentials have synthetic in them. They just don't break down. And you usually get better fuel milage. In an older engine with some milage on it, I would use a heavier oil, 15-50, or straight 50 weight. Synthetic will leak where conventional oil won't. Would change by doing oil change with a cheap filter, use diesel fuel to wash, start engine, turn off, and drain diesel fuel, let drain overnight, then change filter to a good high quality filter, and fill with synthetic. Can't do an engine harm. Don't drive vehicle with just diesel fuel in crankcase, just use it to flush. Diesel is a lubricant, and a solvent, but Don't have the viscosity to properly protect an engine.
Any other questions just ask
Have rebuilt auto, manual, transmissions, rear ends, diesel, and gasoline engines, hydraulics, pneumatics, and ladder tree control panels, steel stamping presses, and injection molding machines. Even designed custom controls for industry specific machinery.
Ken



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billg27

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Update on my blown 4.8 GM engine. As you can see in the pictures, the valve train is very clean. The oil pickup screen is very clean. But in the engine picture you can see a good connecting rod and a good shiny wrist pin. But no piston attached. The piston in cylinder #4 is completely broken off the rod and pin. Dozens of large pieces of piston and rings were found above the windage tray, preventing the engine from turning over. Have no idea why this piston decided to fail. Never even lost oil pressure. At 409,000 you would think any defects would have shown up long ago. But, the new junkyard engine lives on and I believe the van will run another 400K without any issues. Still running original transmission, rear end and almost all original front end components. Wish me luck!
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