money

samueltp2

Seasoned Expediter
hey there im intrested in becoming an expediter but the guy tha i work with just raise me to 800 a week is there mora than that in expedite after taxes an deductions ?(im home every night work tesday to saturday .. what do i do tell me .. i forgot 2 mention that the 800 is after all deductions
 
Last edited:

panthercub

Seasoned Expediter
hey there im intrested in becoming an expediter but the guy tha i work with just raise me to 800 a week is there mora than that in expedite after taxes an deductions ?(im home every night work tesday to saturday .. what do i do tell me ..

Are you really expecting that easy of an answer? I'll tell you what you should do......Do a whole bunch of homework. Gonna buy a vehicle? Drive for an owner? Look at some of the other posts here. You'll see that the expedite business is very unpredictable. No one can tell you how much you will make. Most of the people who do this, love it. But they know what it takes. You need to make an informed decision, so read up, and good luck!
 

Fr8 Shaker

Veteran Expediter
I agree with LDB stick with what you have, alot of expeditors are going broke. It sounds like you have a pretty good deal. Unless... I can get your job, then I'll sell you my van at good price.
 

redytrk

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
The cost of fuel now eats up about 1/3 of what you earn. I no longer recomend Expediting for anyone. And yes that is even after fuel surcharges have been added.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The cost of fuel now eats up about 1/3 of what you earn. I no longer recomend Expediting for anyone. And yes that is even after fuel surcharges have been added.

This is an intriguing comment and a change from the past, I presume. Can you elaborate?

I spent all day yesterday at the Expedite Expo, attending seminars and visiting with exhibitors and attendees. The seminar rooms are filled with people wanting to know how to finance their first truck and the ins and outs of expediting. It is really interesting to watch some of them move from one seminar to the next and then see their questions evolve as they modify their expectations and their industry knowledge grows.

These same folks, and people like them who may not be at the Expo, would be very interested to hear why you, an expediter, no longer recommend expediting for anyone. Your answer would be part of the decision making process, at least for some of them. They would toss it into the mix with all the other answers they receive, mull things over, and make a decision that hopefully works for them.

So, as a contribution to that mix, can you elaborate? Why is it that you no longer recommend expediting for anyone? If you were sharing your view in a seminar room, someone would reasonably ask why you are still in? Your answer to that question would be helpful too.

Dreamer is working the EO booth at times and has the Open Forum live and on display there. Your answer may be especially meaningful to to some of the show attendees who are here gobbling up every tidbit they can about the expedite opportunity.
 
Last edited:

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
ok here it is,your making 800 bucks a week after taxes,the grass aint greener,especially if your home that much.If your looking for a challenge,then change your profession,but if you want to be a truck driver,better stay where you are.now if that 880 week is before taxes,then you have lots of options,and expediting is one of them,but you must realize,we are in a non directional industry,you just cant say i need a load going home,home is not where you live,but where your suit case is.your actual home is just a stop off place,waiting for you to get back and take care of the grass and weeds.Manny of us make lots of money,but those that do,arent home every night or every weekend,the more your home the less you make.Expedite is a full of reward,as we save many companies from shutting production down on a daily bases,and its a different way of life,but as i stated,if your working for someone,and you clear 800 bucks a week after taxes,and your home that much,just hope you never loose that job
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
The cost of fuel now eats up about 1/3 of what you earn. I no longer recomend Expediting for anyone. And yes that is even after fuel surcharges have been added.
my cost of fuel is not the problem,the industry has slowed down,as the economy has.if I take the surcharge out of my money per mile,my cpm average right now is higher than its ever been,but my acceptance level is down.With so many other companies in the expedite business,the actual amount of freight for each company is down.The longer loads that the expedite teams are use to,have become shorter,and myself,I have tried to be available for the shorter loads,this is why my money per mile is up.I also try to keep myself near express centers so my dead head is down.If your playing football,and the defense figures out your offense,you change your plays,if you want to survive in this business,just step back,look at the overall picture.One thing in my favor though,I'm in tractor and the competition is far less.
 

redytrk

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
This is an intriguing comment and a change from the past, I presume. Can you elaberate?

The change in FSC was intended to spread it all around so that customers who had contracts that would not pay could still get trucks to pick up their stuff.

I went back to my archives to do a little research. When I divide my fuel cost into revenue this is what I come up with.

2001......16.3%
2002......19.9%
2003......13.0%
2004......17.2%
2005......NA
2006......27.1%
2007......27.9%
2008......37.2% (to date)

In 2003 we upgraded to a unit that delivers 20% better fuel mileage or the figures would be much worse.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
This is an intriguing comment and a change from the past, I presume. Can you elaborate?

So, as a contribution to that mix, can you elaborate? Why is it that you no longer recommend expediting for anyone? If you were sharing your view in a seminar room, someone would reasonably ask why you are still in? Your answer to that question would be helpful too.

Phil,
You should not be asking these questions, the writing is on the wall and you could see it if you were not so high up in the clouds. Nothing wrong with you being up there, actually I think it is great but you didn’t get up there by climbing the ladder and you only assume that there is no reason to discourage people who have a stable income to trade it for something unstable.

I have not changed my tune at all, for the past year or so, I have discouraged people from entering this business. When others say “sure the waters fine, come on in” I am telling them not to believe things are so fine and showing what has happened to others who had the faith to make decent money and pay the bills – they failed.

The standard line seems to be this business is easy to learn and only the ones who failed to learn failed, well that’s not true. Actually that is one of the dumbest comments someone can make. This business is not easy to learn and many miss the point that the company determines 90% of the time if you are going to fail, not you. I tell people that they have to learn one basic premise – a company will make or break you. Once you get past that, then other things fall into place. When companies make dumb moves, that are not well thought out or like FedEx’s new dispatch system for the company to capture more revenue, the contractor suffers.

I don’t want to see people fail at the same time I don’t want to see people give up stability for a ‘career’ that is shaky at this point.

My recommendations to anyone who is making stable money stay put for now. Things will shake out in the future but now is not a good time to get into this.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Greg... gotta agree with you on this one. People who get into this biz have to count on the company to take care of them. Matter of fact, so does everyone else. But when the freight goes down hill, who gets it? More often than not, it's not the newb. I'm not saying that there are no exceptions; but would you bet the farm that you'll be an exception?

This is NOT the time for someone to get into expediting, unless they have their own backing. If you have the choice of working at Home Depot or expediting, unless you're single with no expenses, take the job that'll keep you home. You're behind the game out here, and the lessons cost more than what most are willing to pay.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Phil, I found your post interesting. You will concede all the folks at the Expediters Expo have a vested interest in saying all is well in this industry. All the recruiters, vendors and assorted cheerleaders will do their best to convince newbies that everything is fine. Everything is not fine. This is a tough business to make a buck today. Many wide-eyed newcomers will put down their dollars on a truck and take a leap into the unknown. There is a real conflict of interest amongst these promoters. Their livelihoods depend on recruiting and/or selling trucks and truck related goods and services. It is Pollyanish to pretend otherwise. I am glad you are doing well. But, brother, it is tough out here.
 

redytrk

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
If you were sharing your view in a seminar room, someone would reasonably ask why you are still in? Your answer to that question would be helpful too.

I would be the last one ever asked to participate in such a seminar. I would point out that when this business was invented by Roberts Cartage, rates were structured to cover cost, provide a reasonable profit, and most important, a reserve for upgrade and or repairs. This cushion is now gone. Competition and higher fuel/repair cost took care of that.

Why am I still here? Well I passed up my recent usual time to trade/upgrade. I will keep running my present truck until it leaves me beside the road one day. Just throw a few shovelfuls of dirt over me at that point. I will then move over to Expeditors Heaven (or Hell)
 

kwexpress

Veteran Expediter
I would say stay put.there is more to expediting than meets the eye.$800 after taxes isnt bad for the amount of time you are spending at home.

I have owned several different types of units from vans to tractors and I will say if your just gonna do it at least get into a tractor so you know you can get out of expedite without going broke.and your chance of success in expedite will be a little better.
but it sure isnt what it was 10 years ago.
when I first got in expedite I was grossing over 150k per year with a 24' straight thats when fuel was .95 per gallon in MI.and I was running single.

when I got out of trucking 6 months ago I was doing around 4k per week but bringing home less than 2k before taxes,truck payment,insurance

trust me I tried everything to stay in for the last year before I gave up.I am by no means the brightest bulb but I know how to get my own freight and I grossed over $1.75 on all miles not just the loaded ones I dont see how anyone can say that expediting is a good living right now. if you have house payments and 4 kids like me run away if you are single or retired with other income you may like it.but one thing is certain a recruiter will tell you different cause if you fail his company still makes money and no matter what they say your just a truck number to them.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I just tossed out stay where you are. That's my opinion on your question but let me add that it's based on your saying $800 after all deductions. I take that to mean taxes, social security etc. and you have a check for $800 each week to carry to the bank. Add to that you are home every night in your bed. Now, if you said you got $800 a week net but you were on 90% travel and away from home or got $800 a week minus taxes etc. I'd say you should do in depth research into this industry before making a final decision. If you said 90% travel AND $800 MINUS deductions I'd say you should be able to match that provided you thought and worked like a business owner and not just a steering wheel holder. Good luck.
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
Stay where you are. Expediting is like any other business. If you're good at it, there is cash to be made. No easy money here though. If you are netting 800 a week and you halfway enjoy your job, then why change?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The change in FSC was intended to spread it all around so that customers who had contracts that would not pay could still get trucks to pick up their stuff.

I went back to my archives to do a little research. When I divide my fuel cost into revenue this is what I come up with.

2001......16.3%
2002......19.9%
2003......13.0%
2004......17.2%
2005......NA
2006......27.1%
2007......27.9%
2008......37.2% (to date)

In 2003 we upgraded to a unit that delivers 20% better fuel mileage or the figures would be much worse.

In order for those figures to have any real meaning you must remove the FSC from the equation. A surcharge is not revenue, as it is levied to directly offset a cost. Simply put, it's someone else's money, and it's someone else's cost, it merely passes through your hands.

With a FSC, the total fuel surcharge needs to be subtracted from total revenue to get to your actual revenue, and the fuel surcharge needs to be subtracted from the total cost of fuel in order to get at your actual fuel cost.

For example, 100,000 miles at 8 MPG is 12,500 gallons of fuel. At $2.00 a gallon that's $25,000.00 in fuel cost, and $0.25 per mile. For mathematical purposes, let's say revenue is $150,000.00. That makes the fuel cost 16.66% of revenue.

Fast forward to $4.00 a gallon fuel with the same 8 MPG and 100,000 miles, and it's now $50,000.00 in fuel cost. Because the FSC is figured to have the driver paying for fuel at a rate of $1.25 per gallon, for example, (which is even less than the $2.00 you were paying before), $4 per gallon minus $1.25 is $2.75 a gallon, divided by 9 MPG (some carriers use 9, some 10 or 11 for a straight truck) is $0.3055 per gallon FSC. Let's call it 31 cents.

So, you've had an average of $0.31 per mile in fuel surcharge, which totals $31,000.00 in FSC "revenue". If you add the FSC revenue to your $150,000.00 revenue you now have total revenue of $181,000.00. If you divide the $4 per gallon fuel cost of $50,000 into your total revenue, it looks like your fuel costs have jumped to 27.62% of revenue.

But the $31,000.00 FSC revenue isn't really revenue, it's a surcharge to offset the cost of fuel. So, you take that away from the total revenue to get back down to $150,000.00 in revenue, and you subtract the $31,000.000 FSC from the total cost of fuel of $50,000.00 to get $15,000.00 in actual fuel costs.

$15,000.00 in fuel cost divided by the actual revenue of $150,000.00 yields a fuel cost percentage of 10%, so your cost of fuel has actually gone down.


But for those who weren't expediting when fuel was $2 a gallon, and rates per mile were higher than they are now, and got into it when it was $3 gallon, a couple of comparisons to $3 a gallon and $4.80 a gallon fuel should be useful.

Let's say you're driving a diesel cargo van at Panther getting 15 MPG, and you do 75,000 loaded miles, and the revenue at $.77 a mile is $57,750.00 (for the sake of simplicity, I'm not including bonus, Empty Moves, deadhead pay, etc.). 75,000 miles divided by 15 MPG is 5000 gallons of fuel, times $3 a gallon is $15,000 in fuel (that's 20 cents per loaded mile in fuel to move the van). Let's say your FSC was $12,000 (which is an average of $0.16 per mile, times the 75,000 miles is $12,000). If you add the FSC to revenue you get $69,750 in gross revenue. Your $15,000 fuel cost divided by your gross revenue (which includes FSC) is 21.505%. Yikes!

But, keep in mind that it costs you 20 cents a mile to move the van, and the FSC is 16 cents, so you really only paid 4 cents a mile out of your loaded mile revenue to move the van.

Since the cost of fuel is directly offset by the FSC, you need to subtract the FSC from revenue, to get $57,750, and you need to subtract the FSC from your total fuel cost to get $3000 in out-of-pocket fuel cost expenses. In this case, $3000 divided by $57,750 is a fuel cost of 5.195%. Not 21.505% That's more like it.

Now go to $4.80 a gallon where it now costs you $0.32 per mile in fuel to move the van, and the same 75,000 miles and $57,750 revenue, and your total cost of fuel skyrockets to ($4.80 times 5000 gallons) $24,000.00. But your FSC was, say, $22,500 (which is $0.30 per mile). If you add that to the revenue of $57,750 you get $80,250 in gross revenue. $24,000 divided by $80,250 is 29.906% which makes it look like you're losing money, and a lot of it, compared to the 21.505% from last year.

But, when you take the FSC out of the equation (since your didn't earn or pay it), you need to use the loaded mile revenue of $57,750 and your own actual out-of-pocket fuel costs of ($24,000 - $22,500) of $1,500.00. And $1500 divided by $57,750 is 2.596%, which is even less than last year's 5.195%. Now yer talkin'.

The reason it's less is that with $4.80 a gallon fuel and it's costing you .32 per mile to move the van, and the FSC was .30 per mile, giving you out of pocket expenses of .02 per mile. Last year with $3 a gallon fuel it cost .20 per mile to move the van, and with the .16 FSC, your out of pocket was .04 per mile. So while fuel went up from $3.00 to $4.80, your loaded mile revenue stayed the same, and your out-of-pocket fuel costs went down, and you spent $.02 per mile less on fuel.

If you want to include the FSC revenue in the gross revenue, even though it's not revenue that you earned, and if you want to include the FSC in the cost of fuel, even though you didn't pay it, then every time fuel and the fuel surcharge goes up, so will your percentage of revenue. But that's only marginally meaningful to an owner/operator, as it is merely is an indication of just high the cost of fuel is at the pump and how much more customers are having to pay to ship their freight. But, for contractor, what it all comes down to is those few cents per mile that it actually costs you our-of-pocket, or out of loaded mile revenue, to move the van.

Obviously, these are simplistic figures that include loaded miles only, and do not include deadhead miles (the cost of, nor the revenue for), idling fuel usage, other costs and revenues, but they should give you a good idea how things work.

You can see now how a few miles per gallon here and there can really add up. If you are driving, say, a Sprinter getting 22 MPG, at $4.80 per gallon that's .22 per mile in fuel to move the van. If you're getting an average FSC of .32 per mile, there ya go, you're making 10 cents a mile off the FSC money. If you can do that over the course of 75,000 loaded miles that's a lot of money.

You can look at it as getting paid 77 cents a loaded mile plus 32 cents for fuel surcharge, which is $1.09 per mile in revenue, which makes the fuel cost nearly 30% of revenue, which is depressing, or you can look at is as making $0.87 cents a mile with zero out-of-pocket expenses for fuel, which makes fuel costs zero percent of revenue, and let someone else be depressed about the high cost of fuel. Cause either way you look at it, you take home the same.

You can also see why getting every mile per gallon out of the fuel is critical now that fuel is so high. It's not because you want to keep the percentage of fuel cost to revenue down, as that doesn't matter since the FSC covers that, but once the FSC is removed from the equation, the amount of money it costs you in fuel to move your truck either goes into, or comes out of, your pocket. And your pocket could care less about percentages. It's all about how much coin ya got left at the end of the day.

If you can squeeze an MPG here, a MPG there, the FSC is gonna be the same. The difference is your fuel cost, your out of pocket cost. It's the out-of-pocket percentage of revenue that matters. The FSC, well, that's someone else's money, both when you get it and when you spend it. It doesn't matter how much money, or what percentage, the fuel pumps get fed, what matters is how much of YOUR money is being fed into the pumps. And if you can put less of your own money into the fuel pumps, you just might be able to keep some of that FSC money, too.

And all this just deads with loaded miles costs. Actual Cost Per Mile figures and additional revenues will be the real factor in making or losing money out here. But for fuel purposes, all that matters is how much of it you are having to pay for after you take out the surcharge for fuel.

My head hurts.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Mine does too.

Turtle my shelled friend, the problem with some of us who are on percentage is that the FSC is being lumped into the overall rates, and we are told that this is all we can get at the same time the rates to the customer are dropping. In the case of FedEx, they have a specific scale for the trucks and FSC but they do not charge tolls or increase rates to many customers for a reason some here don't get. The rates are lowered to compensate the increase in the FSC in many cases, not all the time but when you think about it, compaines like FedEx use their internal solutions to maintain the same rates as before and cut out that contractor.

OH... my head still hurts from just trying to explain what I'm thinking.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
But the $31,000.00 FSC revenue isn't really revenue, it's a surcharge to offset the cost of fuel. So, you take that away from the total revenue to get back down to $150,000.00 in revenue, and you subtract the $31,000.000 FSC from the total cost of fuel of $50,000.00 to get $15,000.00 in actual fuel costs.

$15,000.00 in fuel cost divided by the actual revenue of $150,000.00 yields a fuel cost percentage of 10%, so your cost of fuel has actually gone down.

Isn't $50k fuel cost minus $31k fsc a balance of $19k with would be 19/150 or 12.67%?
 
Top