Mi. Bar owners fight back!

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I'm a smoker,,I try to be very respectful to wards ppl around me as far as non smokers go.
I think no matter how big or small a business is,It should be left up to the Property Owner to make these decisions.
Kinda like its My house and Ill do D*** Well as I please.
If I cater to smokers,,so be it.. Cater to Non-Smokers same thing. Any smart business will try to find a way to cater to both.Where and when has anyone gotten the right to tell me what to do with my property.
Would be interesting to know how much enforcing the No-Smoking laws are costing the taxpayers. Laws like these we dont need,,courtesy and respect we need more of.

I am under the impression that they are not really being enforced. Enforcement is handled by State health inspectors, NOT local police. The government has NO business dictating to private business owners. My nieces boyfriend told me last night that clean up is FAR easier now and that he had NO idea just how much smoke "stuck" until there was no smoke in the bar.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
I don't smoke, never have...but i have no right to tell anyone they can't..unless it is in my home or car...you know. "personal/private property rights'...same thing with a business owner, he owns his business, he either owns or rent or leases the building...he has the right to allow what happens in his place of business...it is a "personal/private property right'...today its the bars, soon enough it will be your home...think it won't happen, do the research. it already has started....

And hen they have smoking controlled, whats next?? Salt in your food?? Soda?? Oh wait, they are already after those too...

Keep giving up your rights for "the good of the public"...pretty soon you won't have any...

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
 
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dabluzman1

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Actually I do not smoke in restaurants by choice but I also think it should be the business owners choice. How anyone can argue that because they do not like smoke everywhere they want to eat should be smoke free is beyond me. No one is forcing them to walk in the door.

I can't stand the smell of coffee and the caffeine is bad for people, let's outlaw it in restaurants, sounds kinda stupid doesn't it

The analogy of someone drinking a cup of coffee into their own body vs a person blowing carcinogens into the air others are breathing sound stupid to me, how about you.:cool:
 

milpig

Expert Expediter
The analogy of someone drinking a cup of coffee into their own body vs a person blowing carcinogens into the air others are breathing sound stupid to me, how about you.:cool:

Telling a private property owner what LEGAL activities can take place on their property sounds stupid to me. It is the same. If you don't like smoke go to a no smoking establishment. If you like smoking go to one that allows it. Before this law both could be found.

Do you go to a rock bar if you hate the music? No. So don't go to a smoking bar if you don't like what that bar owner is offering you. If his business plan fails because of what he is offering so be it, that is his choice as a business and property owner.


Posted by a NON SMOKER.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Once an owner applies for a liquor license then certain rules must be followed...IF one of the rules are No Smoking then the the owner must comply or lose it...they don't have much choice really...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Once an owner applies for a liquor license then certain rules must be followed...IF one of the rules are No Smoking then the the owner must comply or lose it...they don't have much choice really...


A liquor license has nothing to do with the smoking ban. The smoking ban is just government controlling private activity on private property. I would go out of my way NOT to spend time around smokers indoors. I have no use for a government that seeks to control EVERYTHING. They are very much out of control.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
A liquor license has nothing to do with the smoking ban. The smoking ban is just government controlling private activity on private property. I would go out of my way NOT to spend time around smokers indoors. I have no use for a government that seeks to control EVERYTHING. They are very much out of control.

If the owners are charged with letting smokers on site they risk losing that license...
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
But the rules were for the most part changed "After" the game started...most of these bar owners were in business long before the law was put in place...

Poorboy will tell you there is a bar owner (on alexis rd) in toledo that has paid thousands of dollars in fines and he has a account setup to continue to pay fines, his customers add to it all the time. He has signs posted saying no smoking, but he will not tell anyone they can't...the customer isn't fined, but the bar owner is...he has been fghting this since it was forced on the bar owners. Has be to Columbus for hearings, has filed more then a few lawsuits and has brought on medical experts to testify on 2nd hand smoke..he is still fighting it and sayes he will until it is turned over or he dies...and he will never tell a customer to stop smoking in his bar....

Oh and the Ohio law does not have a provision to take a liquior licence for smoking violations...well not yet....
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I don't know if that is correct. The fines run from 250-500 bucks. The liquor board is not charged with enforcement, the health department is.

I know it is in Ontario...

In Regina..this one bar got real inventive...in the patio, hockey type glass room with NO ceiling with huge heaters around the top...was pretty neat having a puff in the winter time...the bar owner was in compliance with the law...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I know it is in Ontario...

In Regina..this one bar got real inventive...in the patio, hockey type glass room with NO ceiling with huge heaters around the top...was pretty neat having a puff in the winter time...the bar owner was in compliance with the law...

Michigan is it's own animal. It is not a requirement for things to make sense.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I know it is in Ontario...

In Regina..this one bar got real inventive...in the patio, hockey type glass room with NO ceiling with huge heaters around the top...was pretty neat having a puff in the winter time...the bar owner was in compliance with the law...

Michigan is it's own animal. It is not a requirement for things to make sense.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I find it very scary that neither business owners nor their customers have the right to choose anymore, because the choice has been made for them. Why can't establishments choose to be smoking, or non, and customers likewise? Agree with Chef & LOS: the government has gone too far in controlling we, the people.:mad:
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
I find it very scary that neither business owners nor their customers have the right to choose anymore, because the choice has been made for them. Why can't establishments choose to be smoking, or non, and customers likewise? Agree with Chef & LOS: the government has gone too far in controlling we, the people.:mad:
Couldn't have said it better myself...
 

dabluzman1

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I find it very scary that neither business owners nor their customers have the right to choose anymore, because the choice has been made for them. Why can't establishments choose to be smoking, or non, and customers likewise? Agree with Chef & LOS: the government has gone too far in controlling we, the people.:mad:

On the surface I agree with what you say.
Unfortunately, you and I ( all voting Americans ) empower the government to make decisions on our behalf.
whether as in Mi case via their representatives or as in Oh by majority rule via the ballot.
I can understand those who are addicted to smoking voicing their outrage at not being allowed to pollute their bodies and bemoan the fact their fav place cant aid them in their demise.
But, if the voting USA wasnt a silent majority and if more were involved in local government maybe a different result could be won at the polls.
Ya cant always get what ya want.
WELL, except me in this instance.:D
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I no longer smoke around people, even if those other people smoke. One, it's just a way to cut down a bit, and two I don't want to get into the habit or be at ease with lighting one up around someone, lest I make the cardinal mistake of lighting up near someone who will predictably react in over-the-top Chicken Little fashion because they think the slightest whiff of second hand smoke is far more dangerous than actually smoking, and believe they will drop dead within minutes of being exposed, and they typically react in a manner that suggests they are being doused with jet fuel and mustard gas.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Is it possible that you guys are missing the fact that employees, even if they smoke themselves, can sue everyone if they end up getting cancer and at one time they used to work in a place that allowed smoking? Old customers can probably sue too. It's crazy out there, man!
 

dabluzman1

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I no longer smoke around people, even if those other people smoke. One, it's just a way to cut down a bit, and two I don't want to get into the habit or be at ease with lighting one up around someone, lest I make the cardinal mistake of lighting up near someone who will predictably react in over-the-top Chicken Little fashion because they think the slightest whiff of second hand smoke is far more dangerous than actually smoking, and believe they will drop dead within minutes of being exposed, and they typically react in a manner that suggests they are being doused with jet fuel and mustard gas.

I for one applaud your effort to cut back, no matter what drives you towards smoking less.
However, the chicken little mantra is a smoker thing.
For over 55 years I went into places where smokers fouled the air.
There wasnt a bann of them at that time.
I'd go in by shoice, sometimes having a gig or date and go home sticking from those slightest wiffs you speak of.
The crying by non smokers rarely came up unless a jerk blew smoke in your face.
But now that the shoe is on the other foot, well chicken little indeed has surfaced bemoaning the lost right to smoke.
see me in 55 years and we will flip a coin over the next 55.:D
 
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