Measles - Coming To A School Near You?

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It appears that California's "anything goes" attitudes have once again caught up with its population in the form of measles, a highly contagious disease that was considered eradicated in the USA in 2000. Who knows if this latest outbreak is due to the anti-vaccination crowd, the recent massive influx of illegal alien children, exposure from unvaccinated foreign visitors or a combination of the above. The bottom line is that people who get their kids immunized don't have to worry about their nasty little classmates or their nutty parents that still believe certain vaccines cause autism or other related maladies.

On the other hand, should the state or local govts have the right to mandate these vaccines? Apparently yes, so long as they dictate the terms for kids who attend public schools, and it certainly makes sense. However, one can't help but wonder how all these illegal alien children being absorbed into the nations' school systems are being screened since most of them have probably never even seen a doctor, to say nothing of being immunized for contagious diseases.

What to know - CNN.com

Measles outbreak: How bad is it? - CNN.com
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
More will die. People forget what is was like, we have had it far too good for far too long. Measles is not a "safe" illness, it kills.

Closing the borders would help, for sure, "forcing" vaccination, is another issue, much more clouded. No one should be "FORCED" into ANY kind of medical care they don't want, need, or believe in. That is always wrong, at all levels. People, however, have to be responsible, if they choose not to vaccinate, they should segregate themselves from everyone else. They have no right to endanger others.

There is no easy answer.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It appears that California's "anything goes" attitudes have once again caught up with its population in the form of measles, a highly contagious disease that was considered eradicated in the USA in 2000. Who knows if this latest outbreak is due to the anti-vaccination crowd, the recent massive influx of illegal alien children, exposure from unvaccinated foreign visitors or a combination of the above.
A couple of Congressmen have blamed it on illegal aliens, and so has Ben Carson. Carson took the Rand Paul tact and said, "It's a fact that people are entering the country illegally without being screened for measles." Uhm, if they haven't been screened, how do you know? When asked to prove just one example of an illegal alien with measles who wasn't screened for measles, he couldn't do it. He responded with, "Let me put it this way, if I found you somebody who came in from another country who had not been vaccinated and caused a problem, would that convince you? No." (rand Paul stated, There are many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines." Yet when asked to provide just one example of this, he walked that back and said he didn't necessarily say there was a causality between the two. That's like saying there are many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after having worn disposable diapers as an infant.)

Playing the "illegal alien" card on measles is nothing more than a dangerous and irresponsible flirtation with politically expedient misdirection.

It's almost certainly not from the influx of illegal alien children. For several reasons. One is, genetic testing of the Disneyland-linked virus shows too similarities to strains of the measles found in Dubai, Qatar, Azerbaijan, and Indonesia to be any other than one of those strains. The most likely explanation is that a tourist legally in the US brought measles to the country while visiting, or that a US citizen visited a foreign country and brought it back with them (which is how the 2014 measles outbreak began in Ohio, after an Amish missionary returned to Ohio from the Philippines, and the Amish in Ohio have a low vaccination rate).

Another reason is, all these illegal alien children pouring across the porous border that we're freaking out about all have higher measles vaccination rates than we do. The U.S. has a measles vaccination rate of 92 percent (down from 98 percent just a few years ago), while Mexico and Nicaragua have 99 percent vaccination rates and Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador each have 93 percent vaccination rates. If anything, those countries should be concerned about Americans coming down to visit.

The bottom line is that people who get their kids immunized don't have to worry about their nasty little classmates or their nutty parents that still believe certain vaccines cause autism or other related maladies.
Maybe, maybe not. It actually depends on how many nasty classmates and nutty parents there are. The vaccination rate need to be above a certain percentage in order for it to be effective. For measles it needs to be above 90 percent for what is called "herd immunity" to kick in. If you have a room with 10 kids and 9 are vaccinated, the chances are that none of them will get the measles. If only 7 of them are vaccinated, the chances are that at least 5 of them will get it. So just getting vaccinated isn't necessarily enough to ensure you won't get it, it depends on everyone else. Even though the US has a 92 percent rate overall, there are clusters (like in CA, or in some Amish communities) where the rate is 70, 60, 50 or even lower. In those clusters kids who have not been vaccinated and kids who have can both get it, and then it spreads to other areas and states where unvaccinated kids will get it.

In 17 states, the vaccination rate is less than 90 percent. Despite California's "anything goes" attitudes, they're not one of the 17. California is 92.3 percent. The lowest is Colorado (81.7). (Vaccination Coverage Among Children in Kindergarten | United States, 2013-14 School Year - CDC) In those 17 states the average is 86 percent. Mississippi has the highest rate at 99.7 percent. Mississippi and West Virginia are the only two states which permit neither religious nor philosophical exemptions to its vaccination program. Only children with medical conditions that would be exacerbated by vaccines may enroll in the schools there, and even at that once the medical condition warrants it, they have to get the vaccines to stay in school.

On the other hand, should the state or local govts have the right to mandate these vaccines? Apparently yes, so long as they dictate the terms for kids who attend public schools, and it certainly makes sense. However, one can't help but wonder how all these illegal alien children being absorbed into the nations' school systems are being screened since most of them have probably never even seen a doctor, to say nothing of being immunized for contagious diseases.
Most have probably never seen a doctor? Where do you think these illegal alien children are coming from, Panama in the 1890s? They're coming from modern countries with concentrated population centers and rural areas just like we have. Mexico and most Central American countries have way faster broadband than we have.

Contrary to popular belief, smoking doesn't cause every illness and death known to man, and illegal alien children aren't the cause of every political and social ill in society. :D
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Most have probably never seen a doctor? Where do you think these illegal alien children are coming from, Panama in the 1890s? They're coming from modern countries with concentrated population centers and rural areas just like we have. Mexico and most Central American countries have way faster broadband than we have.
"...modern countries with concentrated population centers and rural areas just like we have"??
Surely you're not implying that these supposedly severely disadvantaged children escaping Central America have had access to health care anywhere near the level of that in the US? There's also reason for some skepticism about their record keeping as well. I'm sure I'm not the only one reading this that's been to Mexico and all these Central American countries (excluding El Salvador, myself) and they dam sure don't have "concentrated population centers and rural areas" just like ours. There are large pockets of miserable poverty is these countries that most Americans can't even imagine, and I'll bet a steak dinner that the kids in these areas haven't been vaccinated for anything - much less measles.

Public Schools Face Health Threat from Illegal Aliens

That being said, it's entirely possible one of the children of the Jenny McCarthy anti-vaccine crowd in CA or some tourists from France could have brought the measles to Disneyland. Those parents who have had their children vaccinated for measles and the other usual contagious diseases have very little to worry about.

One other thought entered my mind as I finished that last paragraph and listened to whatever news channel that was playing in the background: don't think for a minute that muslim terrorists somewhere aren't noticing how easy it is to spread airborne contagions in these crowded environments we have in our country - especially those involving our children. Everyone is worried about nuclear weapons right now and the situation in Iran that's going unnoticed. There are types of biological weapons that would be just as dangerous in this country, and perhaps more effective.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
In the link provided by Pilgrim, several officials warn about infectious diseases brought by illegal immigrants:

JD Hayworth, former state rep from AZ, mentions tuberculosis, leprosy, and polio.

The DHS Inspector General describes respiratory illnesses, tuberculosis, chicken pox, scabies, and lice.

A Border Patrol agent says staph infections, chicken pox, and MRSA [also a staph infection: Methycillen Resistant Staph Aureus], which is resistant to everything except intravenous Vancomycin - a powerful antibiotic [with nasty side effects, like severe diarrhea] that is given in a hospital setting. [This info may be outdated, it was current when I was working in the hospital - there may be newer antibiotics since then.]

All the mentioned communicable diseases are nasty, but there are 2 points to make: measles wasn't mentioned by anyone, and none of them pose the risk of fatality that measles does.
So no, we can't blame the measles on illegal immigrants. We can blame the deluded people who trust Jenny McCarthy and Rand Paul for medical advice.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"...modern countries with concentrated population centers and rural areas just like we have"??
Surely you're not implying that these supposedly severely disadvantaged children escaping Central America have had access to health care anywhere near the level of that in the US?
No, I'm implying that we have cities and towns and they have cities and towns, and that we have sparsely populated rural areas and they have sparsely populated rural areas.

There's also reason for some skepticism about their record keeping as well.
The record keeping comes from the World Health Organization, the same place that coordinates with the CDC to give us our own 92 percent vaccination rate.

I'm sure I'm not the only one reading this that's been to Mexico and all these Central American countries (excluding El Salvador, myself) and they dam sure don't have "concentrated population centers and rural areas" just like ours.
I didn't say their "concentrated population centers and rural areas" were just like ours, I said they have them just like we have them. A lot of people believe Mexico and Central America is little more than a combination of Arnold Schwarzenegger movies and Sally Struthers countries. They're not.

There are large pockets of miserable poverty is these countries that most Americans can't even imagine, and I'll bet a steak dinner that the kids in these areas haven't been vaccinated for anything - much less measles.
Thee are large pockets of miserable poverty in America that most Americans can't even imagine. And those kids get vaccinated.

So you found a special interest Blog that shares and supports your beliefs that illegal aliens are like the worst thing ever. Good job. But there is no evidence of any hot zone along the southern border of a measles outbreak (or any another outbreak), yet there certainly should be, since all these unvaccinated kids and adults have been streaming across the border for decades.

That being said, it's entirely possible one of the children of the Jenny McCarthy anti-vaccine crowd in CA or some tourists from France could have brought the measles to Disneyland. Those parents who have had their children vaccinated for measles and the other usual contagious diseases have very little to worry about.
That's mostly true, but like I said earlier, it depends on whether or not others around you have also been vaccinated. Of the 34 initial cases of measles from Disneyland, 28 had not been vaccinated at all, 1 had just the first dose (which is only about 50 percent effective) and 5 had been fully vaccinated with both doses. So 5 people who should have been immune got it anyway, because they are from a low-vaccination cluster where the rate is like 70 percent.

One other thought entered my mind as I finished that last paragraph and listened to whatever news channel that was playing in the background: don't think for a minute that muslim terrorists somewhere aren't noticing how easy it is to spread airborne contagions in these crowded environments we have in our country - especially those involving our children. Everyone is worried about nuclear weapons right now and the situation in Iran that's going unnoticed. There are types of biological weapons that would be just as dangerous in this country, and perhaps more effective.
I suppose just the thought of "illegal alien Muslim terrorist children" must make you head just explode. :D

Yes, unless the Muslim terrorists have been living in a cave somewhere, I'm sure they're noticed how easy it is to spread airborne contagions. I'm also quite sure that water borne contagions are not lost on them, either. People have been using contagious diseases and other biological weapons ever since the Hittites (modern day Turkey and a large surrounding area) invented it about 1500 B.C. when they sent large numbers of people who were infected with Rabbit Fever (Tulameria) into enemy lands to cause an epidemic. It worked. Native Americans were given "gifts" of blankets and handkerchiefs slathered with Smallpox to hasten their demise. And today among the stockpiles of various and sundry biological weapons, the US has in its arsenal weaponized hemorrhagic fevers (including Ebola) and smallpox.

Smallpox has been eradicated. No cases on the entire planet since 1979, and vaccinations haven't been given since the late 80s. Yet Russia and the United States still keep the virus around, for "research purposes," and, for use as a possible weapon, despite calls from every health organization in the world to go ahead and destroy the stockpiled samples in case of an accidental infection (as no one born after the mid 80s is vaccinated). But oh, no, that couldn't happen. The virus is kept in Biolevel 5 containment. Except that in 2014 dozens of vials of Smallpox were discovered in unmarked boxes in an unsecured storage room at a Food and Drug Administration laboratory at the National Institutes of Health location in Bethesda, Maryland. Are you kidding me?

I'm more worried about my own government's incompetence than I am about terrorists.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I suppose just the thought of "illegal alien Muslim terrorist children" must make you head just explode. :D
No, it's the thought of adult muslim terrorists being cultivated in and around Syria, Iraq and Iran that give pause for concern. I guess by now everyone has seen the pictures of the Jordanian pilot being burned alive - that could have just as easily been an American hostage. However, muslim terrorist children with bomb vests strapped to them are worth consideration.
I'm more worried about my own government's incompetence than I am about terrorists.
Personally, I'm more worried about my own government's incompetence in dealing with these muslim terrorists and our Commander In Chief who refuses to recognize the threats posed by ISIS and their brothers in arms. There's also the rarely mentioned matter of the "talks" - which would be more appropriately termed "concessions" - being conducted by the Obama administration with Iran which allow them to progress on schedule with their nuclear arms development. Obama's incompetence will haunt our country for generations to come.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
In reference to the Jordanian pilot being burned alive, anyone ever heard of Jesse Washington? Sam Hose?
 
Last edited:
Top