Mainstream Muslims and Radical Jihadists

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Continuing from another thread:
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Originally Posted by Turtle

You claim that these radical Muslims "are simply accepted or tolerated by Islamic governments, religious leaders and mainstream Muslims," yet now you want to restrict my response to that significant examples from high level Muslims leaders, and not only that, but those who are speaking or writing for the international mainstream media? That's a pretty tall task, don't you think? A Muslim cleric gives a speech in a Mosque deploring terrorism, but because he wasn't speaking for the MSM it doesn't count? Is that how it works? A Muslim is asked a question by a mainstream reporter about Islamic radicals and they respond with condemnation for the radical, and that's not good enough? OK then. You asked for examples, plural, so I need to know the exact number of examples which will satisfy you, keeping in mind that several such examples have been posted to these boards in the past in response to the very same assertion that Muslim leaders fail denounce radical Mulsims. Once you arrive at a number, as long as it's a reasonable number, I'll be happy to oblige you. I have a feeling, however, you aren't gonna like the examples I already have at the ready, because they directly and resoundingly refute your assertion. It might not be a thread you want to tug.


It's not a "tall order" at all. You made an unsubstantiated claim and all I'm asking for is substantiation. I'm not going to play this silly numbers game, but perhaps some clarification is necessary to make my point. A quote from the following article does a pretty good job of doing just that:
Shouldn't Muslims be more worried about all the jihadi groups that have sprung up in the Arab and Islamic countries in recent years and whose members are imposing a reign of terror and intimidation on moderate and peaceful Muslims?
When was the last time Muslims took to the streets to protest against suicide bombings that have killed thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan?
When did Muslims ever stage demonstrations to protest against Al-Qaeda's 9/11 attacks, in which nearly 3,000 civilians were killed in the name of Islam? Perhaps because many Muslims do not believe that Muslims carried out 9/11, or because they believe it is alright to kill infidels.
Why aren't Muslims demonstrating in the streets of Cairo and Benghazi over the daily massacres that are being perpetrated in Syria by Muslim jihadis and the regime?
What happened to those Western-educated liberal Muslims who reportedly triggered the "Arab Spring" protests in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt? How come they haven't taken to the streets to demand an end to the violence and crimes that are being perpetrated every day in the name of Islam?
What are Muslims doing to protect the rights of women in Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iran, Somalia and the Gaza Strip?
What have Muslims done to stop the phenomenon of young Syrian girls who are being sold for "pleasure marriages" to wealthy men from the Gulf?
Where are the street protests against human rights and media violations in the Arab and Islamic countries? Aren't most of these violations and abuses being committed in the name of Islam?

Where Are the Muslim Protests for... ?


One other issue to watch in the coming days since we've been discussing the topic of Sharia barbarism and women's abuse. Let's see how moderate Muslims in Sudan and around the world react and if they come to the rescue of this pregnant Christian woman who is about to be tortured and hanged for being a Christian.

A 27-year-old pregnant Sudanese mother was sentenced to death by hanging for being a Christian, but not until after she receives a flogging of 100 lashes for committing adultery (with her Christian husband)...

Congressman Trent Franks, AZ-8, had this to say after the sentencing today:
“We have learned that Meriam Yahia Ibraham Ishag – a Sudanese Christian woman – has been sentenced to death by hanging after being accused of apostasy by a court that gave her ‘three days to recant’ and ‘return to Islam.’ Ms. Ishag, who is married to an American citizen, was raised as an Orthodox Christian by her mother, thus making a ‘return’ to Islam fundamentally impossible. She is also eight months pregnant.

Pregnant Sudan Christian Mother Sentenced to Hang to Death - Joanne Moudy - Page 1





 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Continuing from another thread:

It's not a "tall order" at all. You made an unsubstantiated claim and all I'm asking for is substantiation. I'm not going to play this silly numbers game, but perhaps some clarification is necessary to make my point.
I'm just trying to stave off any pedantic objections later on. My claim was that, "I heard and read plenty of comments from mainstream Muslims denouncing Islamic radicals and terrorists actions." I didn't claim that I read or heard any of that from high level Muslims, or from those who were speaking or writing for the mainstream media. The conditions of high level Muslims and those who actually speak for, or write for, the mainstream media were conditions you introduced. You're not asking for substantial of my claim, you're asking for substantiation for something which I did not claim. Therefore, I will substantiate what I claimed. Do with it what you will.

Here is a list of fatwahs condemning terrorism perpetrated by Muslims, issued by high clerics such as Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez Aal ash-Shaykh, the Grand Mufti of the Saudi Arabia Kingdom. In one of them (several of them, actually) he condemns Al-Qaeda as enemies of Islam, and instructs Muslims to fight along side of Christians and others in Afghanistan against Al-Qaeda.

In another fatwah regarding the suicide bombings in Riyadh and Yanbu, Dr. Osama Khayyat, an Imam at al-Masjid al-Haraam in Mecca, slammed those who carried out the attacks as being stooges of Muslim extremists, and thus stooges of the enemies of Islam. Not only that, but such acts of terror only bolster the resolve of those who want to kill Muslims. He and other Muslims recognize that such acts of terror isn't exactly the best way to win friends and influence people. Khayyat calls this a "grave danger" to Islam and to Muslims, and instructs Muslims to reject and denounce the violence.

Here is list of Muslims Americans who condemn Muslim terrorism:
IslamiCity.com - Muslim Americans Condemn Attack

Here is another one:
Islamic Statements Against Terrorism ? Charles Kurzman

From the AP:
Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood Condemns Boston Marathon Bombings

From a thread here on EO:
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/soapbox/61332-extreme-cowardice-3.html#post660330

That's a thread and a topic, incidentally, in which you participated, and incorrectly dismissed the examples as being simply from Muslim public relations firms, and saying that Muslims aren't trying hard enough to convince people that they condemn terrorist attacks. That's why I wanted to see if there was a certain number of examples which would satisfy you, and why I balked at your restrictions and limited scope of your request of substantiation, because I feel very confident that you will either ignore the above examples, or dismiss them outright for one reason or another, as they don't fit with your narrative.

You assert that Islamic radicals and terrorists are given a pass by the Muslim community at large, and have even implied that the radicals are supported by the Muslims at large. You assert that, with the exception of Egypt, these radical Islamists are not only tolerated, but accepted by all Islamic governments, religious leaders and mainstream Muslims. Your assertions are patently false, they were false the last time you asserted them, and they will be false the next time you assert them. You won't admit it, because you believe, in the face of the contrary, that you are right. I have a feeling that what you truly believe about Muslims and what their fate should be, you won't even state publicly for the record.

A quote from the following article does a pretty good job of doing just that:
The questions and comments from the article you quoted, some of which are similar to questions you, yourself have have asked here, are questions and comments from someone who believes Muslims should think and behave like Christians, and doesn't understand why they won't. Christians don't understand that it is against Islam for Muslims to condemn other Muslims, unless it is a high cleric or imam doing the condemning (calling another Muslim a kaafir), so most Muslims will remain silent in such matters. But many aren't silent, because just like so many Christians ain't really all that Christian, most Muslims ain't all that Muslim, either.

But it's more than that. The current terrorist episode is fundamentally a civil war, a war of Muslim against Muslim, over the soul and meaning of Islam, which for a variety of reasons has spilled out of the Muslim world and into the rest of it. Wars of this sort lead inevitably to euphemism, reticence, and rationalization intended to paper over the reality of the conflict, that being brother against brother and finding it hard to admit that they really are making war against each other. Frankly, Americans, of all people, ought to stop pretending the incomprehension of it.

One other issue to watch in the coming days since we've been discussing the topic of Sharia barbarism and women's abuse. Let's see how moderate Muslims in Sudan and around the world react and if they come to the rescue of this pregnant Christian woman who is about to be tortured and hanged for being a Christian.
As the verdict was read in the courtroom, a handful of Muslims cheered the decision, but about 50 Sudanese Muslims protested the decision outside the court. As I have noted in the past, religion is about control as anything else, and people have historically used religion in order to carry out all sorts of barbaric acts. Sudanese president Omar Hassan al-Bashir's career has been defined by war and ruthless killing. He came to power in a coup in 1989 and has ruled what was until this year Africa's largest country with an iron fist ever since. Under sharia law, and according to the Qur'an, it is illegal and against God's will to abandon your faith for another. The penalty is death. (The Bible has similar sentiments, and similar punishments.) This is just one more in a long history of examples where someone in power uses persecution and death to keep control of the people, and uses religion as the tool with which to do it.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
That's a thread and a topic, incidentally, in which you participated, and incorrectly dismissed the examples as being simply from Muslim public relations firms, and saying that Muslims aren't trying hard enough to convince people that they condemn terrorist attacks.
It's also a thread where he failed to participate ... when called out to back up his groundless assertions ...

That's why I wanted to see if there was a certain number of examples which would satisfy you, and why I balked at your restrictions and limited scope of your request of substantiation, because I feel very confident that you will either ignore the above examples, or dismiss them outright for one reason or another, as they don't fit with your narrative.
Which would be part of a repeated and continuing long-term pattern of conduct on the part of the individual that you replying to ...

IOW: it would be par for the course ...

Your assertions are patently false, they were false the last time you asserted them, and they will be false the next time you assert them. You won't admit it, because you believe, in the face of the contrary, that you are right.
True believers - of whatever variety - rarely let actual facts get in their way ...

I have a feeling that what you truly believe about Muslims and what their fate should be, you won't even state publicly for the record.
The individual to whom you are replying is on record as apparently being in the "Kill-'em-all-and-let-Allah-sort-them-out" camp ... not specifically with respect to all Muslims (AFAIK), but certain sub-groups (in the particular context that the statement was made in) ... which by definition would include innocents, women, children, and the elderly - since the above statement (which I paraphrased here) was in regard to civilian casualties ...

A statement such as paraphrased above provides insight as to how little regard one might have for innocent human life - apparently a disregard which is based on a perception of what the religion of the parties involved is ...

Of course, the idea that all the folks that would be involved in such a genocidal act are all of a certain, particular religious group - as well as failing to consider that perhaps members of one's own religion might be included as well - only bespeaks of the lack of a real, broad-based knowledge about the facts and circumstances of the particular conflict in question.
 
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