Logging Issues

easyrider2697 · Jun 28, 2007

>Sometimes it depends on your carrier. We have gotten
>numerous violations for running the truck to the shop for
>repairs near home when off duty. Then we tried logging just
>who drove the truck to the shop and got violations on the
>other driver not logging on duty not driving. I have figured
>out if you pull the fuse on the QC then you don't have to
>log miles because the satellite can't see your truck to
>track your every movement. Haven't needed to use it yet
>though. Panther uses the QC like a black box already.

2 things here that need to be noted

1. If you were taking truck to the shop, that is on duty driving to the shop and if you wait for it then its on-duty not driving. It was work related so therefore it needs to be logged

2. PANTHER does not allow you to use your own commercial vehicle for personal conveyance under no circumstances......just call and ask safty. (I do not agree with that but its their rules, and they write my check, so I have to follow their rules)

Oh yea btw pulling the fuse will not help, when you plug it back in it will recognize the milage difference on the ECM and back log you, then, you have chanced having your contracts pulled for altereing the qc.

pelicn · Jun 28, 2007

Riverrat, that's the link I was looking for, thanks for posting it.
Our previous company allowed us to log off duty when we used the tractor to go get food. etc. as long as we were not loaded. While with Panther, safety said anytime the truck moved, it was drive time. Once again, it seems, HOS rules are clear as mud, and company policy is what we go by.

fortwayne · Jun 28, 2007

10 and 14 - period.
log when you move - period.
it might not be right, it might not be fair , but it sure the heck will keep you legal.
KABOOOOOOOOOM.

Fort Wayne
Support P.E.T.A. (People Eating Tasty Animals)

TeamCaffee · Jun 28, 2007

If you are using an EOBR with the Qualcomm do you have to log in and what happens if you do not? I am under the impression that if you do not log in the truck is just actually logging the miles. Those of you that are using this what do you do if the mechanic takes your truck for a test drive?

riverrat2000 · Jun 28, 2007

Ok, I got so interested and since i had plenty of time I called fmcsa in Washington and talked to them about it, as stated this rule is as clear as mud, at first he said that the rule was set up for company drivers but after we discussed it and supplying a few examples is conclusion was that if you are under no obligation IE, under a load,dispatched on a load or directed by the company you are leased too it would be permissible to go a short distance to park in a safe place, get something to eat, go shopping ect. his idea was no more than a 20 mile radius. Now having said that i ask him to mail me something to prove to my company that the personal conveyance would be acceptable that is where things went south, he said he was unwilling to do that and then suggested that i write a request to the head of fmcsa asking for clarification of the rule. needless to say that was frustrating. Well I have done part of it but don't feel up too writing out a request to find out, how about someone here that is better at writing things like this giving it a try, from my understanding the question and answer will appear somewhere in the fmcsa website, so heres your chance for some fame, or notoriety lol

pelicn · Jun 28, 2007

We were, and will be again, on electronic logs with Panther. When we had service done on the truck as soon as it was taken into the building the signal dropped and placed us on line 4. I don't know if it applies to all EOBR's, but with ours, line 3 was not able to be edited. Everything else could be edited. As far as a mechanic driving, it counted against the person logged on as the driver. When the truck moved it detected it and there was no way to determine if it was us or the mechanic. I guess you might be able to fight it if you were stopped by having documentation that showed the truck was being serviced, but we were never under such a time constraint that we would have needed to have those few minutes available.

maybe_driving · Jun 28, 2007

if you go to OOIDA and look in their log form they have the personal use ? there

WWW.Packing.org
ooida#811397

slfisher45 · Jun 29, 2007

One reoccuring theme is when the wheels are turning the driver needs to be logging. That is the way to be legal.
A commercial vehicle has DOT numbers on the doors. It has commercial plates (tags) on the vehicle. None of these required identification numbers are supplied by any companies that we drive for. The companies we drive for may have their rules for drivers but none can supercede federal or state regulations.
I log every thing I do while I'm driving my truck, laden or not. Panther doesn't care if I use my truck for personal conveyance. They don't have a say in that. What they have control of is my compliance with hos rules. If I drive my truck to a drive-in movie, it is up to me, but I have to log drive time and fuel time on line 3 and 4 respectfully.
When hauling personal freight one has to cover all the numbers with "Not for hire" signs and a sign on the dash too.

jaminjim · Jun 30, 2007

And if you drive it to the dive-in and sit in the drivers seat to watch the movie, you must log it on line three. On the other hand, if you went to the drive-in for the same reasons that I did as a teenager, you would log it as sleeper birth.

x06col · Jun 30, 2007

There ya go Jim. Now we are getting to the serious stuff. You know, personal time, family stuff, socializing, and such. Make this expediting fun y'all.

Broompilot · Jul 1, 2007

Mich. Has it right!

The answer is SHORT DISTANCES, the exact mileage cold come under a microscope. So I would keep it below 30 miles if in a populated area. So I have been informed.

Yes it is OK to go to Walmart and than Bob Evans, but not accross two counties.

I did this all of the time and never recieved a warning, than again short distances, even took the truck to another small town while in Youngstown to put myself on a bike path one Sunday rode all the way up to Lake Erie and back and than drove back to the Pilot for a shower, after the ride.

jaminjim · Jul 1, 2007

Dang Broom, I did not know a truck would fit on a bike path.

michdpm · Jul 4, 2007

WOW !

This proves my theroy. If you ask four truck drivers what time it is, you will get five different answers.

FMCSR are the minimum standards. No state can pass a law changing the
HOS, but a company can enforce stricter rules. If a company makes you
log ALL movement then they are not allowing you off-duty prevledges.
Some companies will make you sign a form that states that off-duty
time is just that, not company time.

Insurance companies dictate more of the industry than drivers realize.
It is a risk management. If a company has a "problem" then the companies insurance company will "advise" them to change their rules.
ie: All truck movement will be logged.

If a company has a good standing with their insurance carrier then they will let things slide.
ie: You do not have to log going to Wally World in your truck.

Hope this brushes some of the mud off the question.

PS: I was present at a lecture given by two Federal DOT officers about log issues. They got into an argument themselves about the
split-sleeper rule. Makes me proud of our government agencies.
Keep this in mind when you think about national health-care.

KeepOnTrucking !

nobb4u · Jul 4, 2007

And all this discussion just goes to prove what an old trucker told me when I started driving 25 years ago.."You need a frigging lawyer to ride with you".

When I started driving I read an article that stated to drive in all 48 states you need to know 75,000 laws that effected truck drivers. I can only imagine how high that number is now. Because back then at least truckers still got respect for the kind of job they did.

bambam · Jul 5, 2007

Im not sure if it is legal but my dispatchers told me anything within 100 miles of the home office you do not have to log it i have run from cleveland ackron and never loged it for truck repairs then after i deliver if i have to go to the store i never log it even if i have to drive 20 miles one way cause i always endup back where i started i would like to know ifi shouldbe logging or if it is ok ive here both cause we run paper logs

god bless and keep rolling

jaminjim · Jul 6, 2007

you need to read the 100 air mile rule.

jasonsprouse · Jul 6, 2007

Also keep in mind that air miles are not the same as land miles. (100 air miles is 115.08 "statute" miles. See http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/rulesregs/hos/hos-faqs.pdf). And that it is a radius (straight line), not driven miles.

Although even using the air mile rule you STILL have to track your working hours, just not in a traditional log book.

I also suspect the DOT would not be keen on you bouncing between air miles rules and conventional logging.

RLENT · Jul 6, 2007

I also suspect the DOT would not be keen on you bouncing
between air miles rules and conventional logging.

Check out the FAQ on the site - I believe it is permitted.

nightcreacher · Jul 6, 2007

bam that isnt true dont get cought

Crazynuff · Jul 7, 2007

>Im not sure if it is legal but my dispatchers told me
>anything within 100 miles of the home office you do not have
>to log it i have run from cleveland ackron and never loged
>it for truck repairs then after i deliver if i have to go to
>the store i never log it even if i have to drive 20 miles
>one way cause i always endup back where i started i would
>like to know ifi shouldbe logging or if it is ok ive here
>both cause we run paper logs
>
>god bless and keep rolling
And then you get a run beyond 100 miles and you need to log the previous 7 days . 100 mile runs are NOT off duty . Since you know a run requiring logging is coming up it's much simpler to log the short runs while doing them .