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liftgates and overall length measurements

LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I was talking to another driver who has a truck that is 40' overall not counting his liftgate and platform. He told me the 40' rule applies to the bumper to back of box but the liftgate and platform are not counted in overall length to determine legal length. He says he's been DOT'd and had no problem. I've looked in the rule book and can't find anything on length yet but am still looking. Does anyone know of the reference number that will confirm or refute this?

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
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LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Don, you are a GENIUS! I have just GOT to go back to web searching school for a refresher. Thank you for that link, it covers exactly what I needed.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
davekc

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Great link. Certainly a place to pay attention to if you are building or specing a truck.
Many have failed here and bad things have happened.


Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
 
LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes, my truck came in at 39'5" not counting the rubber bumpers on the ICC bumper. I wanted to be sure to not bump heads with the length limit. I decided after the fact I wanted a liftgate. My builder was unaware of this exemption, as was I, and told me we couldn't do a liftgate. I'm thankful I talked to the other driver and found out about this exception. I'll have the liftgate added next time I'm sitting at home.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I thought about that but I really want one with a deck and steps up the side and that ruling should cover it.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
GUNSLINGER

GUNSLINGER

Expert Expediter
Leo, The reason we insist on trucks we build being no more than 40ft is because different states seem to have different ideas of the length laws. I have had several customers that were not as lucky as the guy you talked to with the platform on the back of his truck. While it should be pretty clear to us as a group what the law says you also know that once you get a ticket somewhere it is a real pain to fight it. I just try to keep it simple.
 
Tennesseahawk

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Leo, are you talking about a liftgate that folds up behind the truck, effectively blocking your doors? I think if you had problems with them freezing, you'd choose differently. And think about if you had a load on board at the time. And what about docking? Will you have to lower it once inside a dock? Many shippers don't like that.
 
D

DANMELISSA_FDCC

Expert Expediter
Thats some interesting stuff to know for when we convert our truck. I'm more partial to the liftgates that hide under the box. But I would hate to see a car hit it, so I may have them make the bumper xtra thick with thicker and more rubber bumpers surrounding the gate inclosure, if its possible without hampering the performance of the gate.
 
LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
No, not one that folds up against the back. I'm thinking of something like this: http://www.leymanlift.com/newsite/Leyman web site/LHSandLLBS.htm
and have the steps at the side of the platform that would let me get up into the dock when I want to as well as get into the box to sweep it out or whatever.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I agree simpler is better and if I'd planned a liftgate from the beginning would have had it factored into the 40' overall. I may still give up the platform and steps I want and go with a full tuck under. That will keep me below 40' as it's 39'5" right now. I'm also going to look for one with maybe a 6" platform. That would be narrow steps but would do the job and still meet 40'. I learn more all the time. If I live long enough and do enough trucks I'll get one perfect eventually. Then within a week someone will invent something or figure out a new way of doing something that will be better and it won't be perfect but boy for that one week I'll have perfection. :+

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
davekc

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Many of the west coast straights have a freight door on the side with a ladder. Ugly but practical and don't affect the length.
They are great in the summer to cool the box when loading or unloading ect.

Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
 
ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
>I was talking to another driver who has a truck that is 40'
>overall not counting his liftgate and platform. He told me
>the 40' rule applies to the bumper to back of box but the
>liftgate and platform are not counted in overall length to
>determine legal length. He says he's been DOT'd and had no
>problem. I've looked in the rule book and can't find
>anything on length yet but am still looking. Does anyone
>know of the reference number that will confirm or refute
>this?


Leo,

This is an issue Diane (an attorney) and I researched in depth. The answer is not as simple as a reference number that will confirm or refute. State rules come into play, specifically, the approach each state takes to certain federal rules. Given the complexity of the issue, this is not something I wish to discuss on line. Contact us privately if you wish. Diane will be happy to visit with you by phone (no charge). Contact us privately for the number. As we researched the issue, we discovered that even in the regulatory community there is some confusion and a misleading blending of opinions regarding straight trucks and trailer length rules.

Our conclusion: Build a truck that is 40' or less in length, bumper to bumper, including all removable components like dock bumpers, lift gates, decorative attachments to front or rear bumpers, etc.

There are dozens of drivers out there driving over-length trucks that will say they've had no problems. They may well be right. However, if strict compliance is of interest, 40' or less with a straight truck is the safe way to go.
 
Tennesseahawk

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Just looked up in the motor carrier's atlas, and two states (Maryland and Minnesota) require that the 40' length include the overhang. Might wanna check that out.
 
davekc

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Gotta go with ATeam on this one. He is correct. State laws will override any federal statute. We found that out in South Carolina. The red KW came in right at 40 ft with their officers out there with a tape measure. They were looking at total length.
When asked if we had a gate or installed larger dock bumpers, we would have failed.
The result....$500.00 fine for not having a overlength permit for SC.

Stay at 40 ft.




Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
 
ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Allow me to add three stories that came to mind when I woke up this morning. It's been a while since we've thought about this issue. Sorry I did not include this info in my first post.

1. I know a driver who was ordered out of California by a scale cop and then physically escorted out of the state by full-grown bears because his truck was over 40 feet long. I can give you his name and phone number in private if you wish.

2. I know a driver who held one end of the tape measure for a scale cop that measured his truck. No problem there since his truck was not over 40 feet long, but it shows that scale cops do sometimes check. I do not recall what state this happened in. I can give you this driver's name and phone number if you wish.

3. One day a TSMT driver in a flat-bed straight truck configured to haul drom boxes called us up on the CB. He said he had just received a ticket for being overlength. Seeing us in a straight truck, he wanted to know what we knew about the overlength regs. I do not have his name and number but it shows that tickets are sometimes issued.

This does not mean that drivers running overlength trucks that say they have had no problems are lying. They are not lying, they are lucky. In these days of compliance databases and improved communications between state/federal and state-to-state officials, it is becomming increasingly risky to run an overlength truck. As regulatory communications improve, an overlength ticket in one state may soon flag you in all others and put you in a difficult position.

The way scale cops measure trucks may also be of interest to readers. It varies from state to state, and perhaps even from cop to cop. Some simply run a tape measure from one end to another. Others use the more-accurate plumb-bob method. A plumb-bob is used to mark on the ground the forward-most and rearward-most points of the truck. A tape is then used to measure the distance on the ground.
 
ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
>I thought about that but I really want one with a deck and
>steps up the side

Lift gates with a deck extention with steps up the side provide distinct advantages over flush-mount lift-gates. If truck-length limits get in the way, you may want to consider a flush-mounted gate, and then add folding steps to the truck similar to those you see going up the front side of some reefer trucks, or similar to the folding steps you see on the back of some delivery trucks. Grab handles can be placed on the body frame to make the steps safer to use. All of this could be accomplished with your current truck length and still keep you under 40 feet overall.
 
LDB

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
This is most likely the course I will pursue.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
Expediters Online.com - The Best is Getting Better!
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
davekc

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
It would be easier to carry a small step ladder for the few times that you can't use the lift to get into the box. I would keep it low level.





Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
 
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