Liberal News' Biases and Double Standards.

paullud · Mar 4, 2015

cheri1122 said:
Oh no it doesn't. There are some companies [Costco, Trader Joe's] who do not pay the CEO in billions, while treating those at the lower end as disposable, and they make enough profit to satisfy themselves, every single year.

Oh yes it does. Each company operates the way it wants to and what works for their business plan. There are only a couple of ways to push Wal-Mart into paying their employees and about the only free market way is for customers to spend their money somewhere else.

When the CEO made 100 times the lowest wage in his company, no one cared, because back then, even the lowest wage could support a single person in a modest way. But since no one complained, the CEOs kept finding ways to give more to themselves and less to everyone they didn't care about, because hey "There's more where they came from." Now, a CEO makes more than 850 times as much, and the people on the other end don't get a raise for years [and are told to be glad they have a job!]

The times have changed and if someone is trying to raise a family in a low income they should change their situation or maybe not have a family when they weren't ready. I guess blaming greedy CEO's is easier than pushing personal responsibility because getting mad at them is easier than telling friends or family members the truth.

The number of ways corporations have found to minimize the cost of labor is just mind boggling, from outsourcing, to using temporary workers, replacing full time workers with part time [no benefits = more profit], contract & seasonal workers, and let's not forget independent contractors, either. Somewhere, I have a list with at least 15 more ways than I can think of off hand, to lower the cost of workers.

Reducing costs is the way corporations stay in business. If Kmart doesn't keep it's prices low enough Wal-Mart gets the business and it works the other way too. That is a result of what the people wanted.

And is anyone seriously suggesting that the CEOs aren't taking in ridiculous amounts of money, year after year?

The CEO doesn't just makeup their pay. They are paid based on the value that the corporation feels that they provide.

And what kind of value does a venture capital outfit actually add to the economy? ZERO. They simply find a company that's in trouble, [but has a solid credit rating], offer to 'rescue' them, bribe the 'key' people with big bonuses for staying on, then give them a [boilerplate] plan that lays off half the workers, requires the rest to make up for it, [which they do, because they still have a job, at least], pays the big bonuses with money borrowed against the good credit, pay themselves a hefty fee for fixing everything, and then sell the company and go find another to work their magic on. Lather, rinse, repeat. These vultures add a lot to their own bank accounts [offshore, of course, you won't catch them paying taxes on it], but they leave a lot of misery behind for all the workers who had a job, many for decades.

I guess if you are one of the people that have a job because of venture capital you would see value. They can either be happy with the value provided or leave since they aren't in a forced work camp. The idea that you only mention this as your idea of what venture capital does makes me think that you really don't understand what they do.

When they can't get another, they get called lazy and entitled, like they chose to be unemployable and scared, right?
I don't know what the answer is, because it means changing the "I got mine, sucks to be you" culture of selfish greed - but telling people to "be more valuable" [while education is priced out of their reach] is just adding insult to injury.

You couldn't be more wrong. Education is incredibly cheap and many of the lower income people get paid to get their education. If someone lost a job they get all sorts of benefits and help to gain new skills or schooling. People like making up excuses on their own for why they can't so you don't need to make up BS for them.

Saying "become a shareholder" is a prime example of the problem: totally out of touch with the reality working people face, a real Mitt Romney/Marie Antoinette attitude, dripping with condescension for those who just want to earn enough to raise a family, buy a house, take a whole week or 2 vacation every year, and still save to send the kids to college.

Well since we have plenty of examples of people investing for retirement and blue collar workers that retire millionaires you're completely wrong. They may WANT to have all that stuff but they aren't willing to put in the work to earn it. You can't constantly have people that work their way up to earn a good living and then claim it's too hard or difficult.

Whatever "free market" "capitalism" "supply & demand" excuses you make, the truth is that working hard isn't enough anymore, and our society is falling apart because of it.

Our society is falling apart because we use debt constantly to buy wants instead of working for them and make ourselves poorer. We have too many people that want things that they can't afford so the way to fix it is to force others to pay or borrow and put themselves in a worse position. If people lived within their means instead of trying to outdo their neighbors they wouldn't be so broke. Does it mean that they will have to make "sacrifices"? Yup.

LDB · Mar 4, 2015

Which companies are the ones paying their employees in billions?

davekc · Mar 4, 2015

cheri1122 said:
Oh no it doesn't. There are some companies [Costco, Trader Joe's] who do not pay the CEO in billions, while treating those at the lower end as disposable, and they make enough profit to satisfy themselves, every single year.
When the CEO made 100 times the lowest wage in his company, no one cared, because back then, even the lowest wage could support a single person in a modest way. But since no one complained, the CEOs kept finding ways to give more to themselves and less to everyone they didn't care about, because hey "There's more where they came from." Now, a CEO makes more than 850 times as much, and the people on the other end don't get a raise for years [and are told to be glad they have a job!]
The number of ways corporations have found to minimize the cost of labor is just mind boggling, from outsourcing, to using temporary workers, replacing full time workers with part time [no benefits = more profit], contract & seasonal workers, and let's not forget independent contractors, either. Somewhere, I have a list with at least 15 more ways than I can think of off hand, to lower the cost of workers. And is anyone seriously suggesting that the CEOs aren't taking in ridiculous amounts of money, year after year? And what kind of value does a venture capital outfit actually add to the economy? ZERO. They simply find a company that's in trouble, [but has a solid credit rating], offer to 'rescue' them, bribe the 'key' people with big bonuses for staying on, then give them a [boilerplate] plan that lays off half the workers, requires the rest to make up for it, [which they do, because they still have a job, at least], pays the big bonuses with money borrowed against the good credit, pay themselves a hefty fee for fixing everything, and then sell the company and go find another to work their magic on. Lather, rinse, repeat. These vultures add a lot to their own bank accounts [offshore, of course, you won't catch them paying taxes on it], but they leave a lot of misery behind for all the workers who had a job, many for decades. When they can't get another, they get called lazy and entitled, like they chose to be unemployable and scared, right?
I don't know what the answer is, because it means changing the "I got mine, sucks to be you" culture of selfish greed - but telling people to "be more valuable" [while education is priced out of their reach] is just adding insult to injury. Saying "become a shareholder" is a prime example of the problem: totally out of touch with the reality working people face, a real Mitt Romney/Marie Antoinette attitude, dripping with condescension for those who just want to earn enough to raise a family, buy a house, take a whole week or 2 vacation every year, and still save to send the kids to college.
Whatever "free market" "capitalism" "supply & demand" excuses you make, the truth is that working hard isn't enough anymore, and our society is falling apart because of it.

Your solution is communist/Marxist based. You want the government to control income and take from one to give to someone else. Or, am I not understanding you solution?
I would recommend looking up venture capitalism. Just based on your post, I'm not sure you understand what they do and don't do.

cheri1122 · Mar 5, 2015

I most definitely do not want the government to control income - but taking from Peter to give to Paul is what taxes are for [and insurance premiums, too].
My description of what a venture capital company does is based upon the explanation/description provided back when Mitt Romney was a candidate, and venture capital [like Bain] was a happening topic. I might be able to find it again, but if I can't, how about high speed commodity traders? What value do they add to our economy, for the big money they rake in?
As for "education is incredibly cheap": HAHAHAHA [not funny, actually - just funny that anyone would say that.]. And even if it were free, what good is it to someone on the wrong side of 50, or 60, when companies simply won't hire them?
"Employees who lose jobs get all kinds of help"? Been there, personally, have any of you? I know from personal experience how it works, and how all the "help" and "benefits" is exactly like looking for a job in the classified newspaper ads: it's almost entirely empty promises. I was lucky to qualify for nursing school when the factory closed it's doors, but I paid for it myself, no help available. I tried the "help" first, learned how to write a resume, and what to wear to a job interview [both of which I already knew], and "tips" like "check the bulletin boards at the laundromat".
Bottom line: corporate profits are greater than they've been in 8 decades, while wages have gained less for the past 6. If you can't see the problem with that, it's because you don't want to.

paullud · Mar 5, 2015

cheri1122 said:
My description of what a venture capital company does is based upon the explanation/description provided back when Mitt Romney was a candidate, and venture capital [like Bain] was a happening topic.

Well that's far from all they do. Venture capitalists invest in small businesses or even just ideas for a portion of the company or product so they want to grow the business and create jobs so that the company has more value and makes them more money.

I might be able to find it again, but if I can't, how about high speed commodity traders? What value do they add to our economy, for the big money they rake in?

They provide the same benefit that all the guys in the pit screaming and raking in lots money used to provide, money for lots of people.

As for "education is incredibly cheap": HAHAHAHA [not funny, actually - just funny that anyone would say that.]. And even if it were free, what good is it to someone on the wrong side of 50, or 60, when companies simply won't hire them?

You clearly haven't looked into how much money is available for education today, again you can get paid to go at lower income levels or if you lost your job. How much cheaper do you expect it to get than free and paid to be there? There are plenty of companies that will hire people in their 50's and 60's. The odds are certainly much better if that person has valuable experience and an education, as in more value than a minimum wage worker. My mom will be 66 this year and she still has to turn down job offers.

"Employees who lose jobs get all kinds of help"? Been there, personally, have any of you?

Yes, and it was pretty recent. Was your experience recent? In the last 10 years? Mine is.

I know from personal experience how it works, and how all the "help" and "benefits" is exactly like looking for a job in the classified newspaper ads: it's almost entirely empty promises. I was lucky to qualify for nursing school when the factory closed it's doors, but I paid for it myself, no help available.

That's just not the case anymore. They will certainly help you look for work though and teach you skills to help land the job that you want.

Bottom line: corporate profits are greater than they've been in 8 decades, while wages have gained less for the past 6. If you can't see the problem with that, it's because you don't want to.

Corporate profits are up and guess who that benefits other than the corporation. It helps all the workers and it really helps all the people with an IRA or 401k that end up investing in these huge companies. Those profits will create blue collar millionaires.

RLENT · Mar 5, 2015

davekc said:
Your solution is communist/Marxist based. You want the government to control income and take from one to give to someone else. Or, am I not understanding you solution?

Alex,

I'll go with what's behind Door No. 2 ...

witness23 · Mar 5, 2015

davekc said:
Your solution is communist/Marxist based. You want the government to control income and take from one to give to someone else.

I had no idea the United States was a Communist country in the 50's and 60's.

muttly · Mar 5, 2015

witness23 said:
I had no idea the United States was a Communist country in the 50's and 60's.

From website:
An income tax is the most degrading and totalitarian of all possible taxes. Its implementation wrongly suggests that the government owns the lives and labor of the citizens it is supposed to represent. Tellingly, “a heavy progressive or graduated income tax” is Plank #2 of the Communist Manifesto, which was written by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels and first published in 1848.

No Income Tax

davekc · Mar 5, 2015

Taxes are based on income. Well kind of. All kinds of loop holes for both the poor and corporations. Insurance is based on risk. It is not based on income. Well, until Obamacare.

Sounds pretty socialist to me. Of course we can't call it that so the new phrase is "income redistribution".
As mentioned, these venture capitalists are at the heart of just about every retirement plan. Which means they are loved by those nasty unions.

May want to look up Obama's buddy John Doerr as he is a 3.5 billion dollar venture capitalist.
I laugh when some think it is all republicans. It is both parties.
In fact, he is in the news again.
Venture Capitalist Says He Tried to Prevent Firing of Woman - ABC News