Legal or NOT?

[davekc]

We were offered .40 a mile dead head for 333 miles, $233.10 Empty Move and a $75.00 Layover pay for driving to Iowa from Missouri to pick up a load and take it to Illinois and then pick up a load in Illinios and take it to Alabama. They told us we'd get the Empty move number when we unloaded the 2nd load...which we did.
Then, 2 days later, they send a message saying they were NOT going to pay us the Empty Move.
When we asked "Why"?, they claimed it was a dispatcher error and it was illegal to do because it would take away from the truck owner.
They made the deal...then took it away AFTER we done what we agreed to do!
Don't know how to explain it any clearer!

Seem to be some holes here and you have to understand what your offer actually was that you failed to do. First you said you weren't paid for the actual load, and then follow that with you weren't paid for the empty move. Panther does not pay for a empty move and deadhead on the same traveled miles to pick up a load. Deadhead is slightly higher, so that is what they paid you per their contract. The distance between both loads would also be deadhead rather than a empty move. Not the two together. Probably something you fleet owner could have explained to you.
In the future, it might be advisable to get said monies in the form of a bonus, verses empty moves or deadhead.

 

[mjmsprt40]

One other thought: Negative posts on an open forum are poison for your future prospects. These things are wide open and the company owners read them, too. So, legal or not, this might not have been one of the better ideas.

 

[jjoerger]

One other thought: Negative posts on an open forum are poison for your future prospects. These things are wide open and the company owners read them, too. So, legal or not, this might not have been one of the better ideas.

I don't think there is anything wrong with posting something negative as long as the story is true, all facts are presented and you've gone through the proper channels trying to get the situation corrected.
Unfortunately it is rare that you will you find someone calling out a carrier or owner for doing something good. (Except in the Load 1 forum) Human nature, such that it is, prevents people from posting about all of the good things that happen. (Except in the Load 1 forum) With the thousands of people involved in the expedite community it is amazing that there are so few negative posts to begin with.

 

[ATeam]

"Holes?"
No holes in this story!
We have photos of the QC messages and they will be turned over to an attorney to be figured out!

Getting an attorney would be a very good thing. He or she will help you sort through the details to determine the actual nature of your case. If you have a case, you will be well prepared to demand what is rightfully yours. If you do not have a case, you will have figured that out too and know your next best move.

I can't tell you how many times people have approached Diane and me with a carrier complaint or fleet owner complaint only to find out they can't back it up. There is no question they feel cheated but that does not mean they actually were.

Sitting in an office with an attorney, instead of trading licks on an open forum, will bring cooler heads and clearer insight to the issues.

 

[usafk9]

Or, it could result in an attorney soaking him/her for a retainer fee for a case they know they can't win.

I like DaveKC's advice best. How about moving up the food chain first, and exhausting all remedies at the carrier before jumping to an attorney? Then, after he/she has done so, and still doesn't feel satisfied, they can either get clarification from their carrier on exactly what each party is responsible to do per their written agreement, or seek counsel from the lawyer to help them understand what those pieces of paper they signed really mean.

While the OP may feel a tad jilted, they may be incorrect and jumped to a conclusion. Take it up the chain of command first, then seek outside relief if they believe they were legitimately shortchanged.

Oh, and lastly, don't crap where you eat. Airing your beef in public before moving it up the chain may have just shortened you lifespan at your carrier.

 

[davekc]

Or, it could result in an attorney soaking him/her for a retainer fee for a case they know they can't win.

I like DaveKC's advice best. How about moving up the food chain first, and exhausting all remedies at the carrier before jumping to an attorney? Then, after he/she has done so, and still doesn't feel satisfied, they can either get clarification from their carrier on exactly what each party is responsible to do per their written agreement, or seek counsel from the lawyer to help them understand what those pieces of paper they signed really mean.

While the OP may feel a tad jilted, they may be incorrect and jumped to a conclusion. Take it up the chain of command first, then seek outside relief if they believe they were legitimately shortchanged.

Oh, and lastly, don't crap where you eat. Airing your beef in public before moving it up the chain may have just shortened you lifespan at your carrier.

I would agree. The answers he is looking for are right in their contract. I would advise reading it carefully, and consult the ACTUAL fleet owner you are driving for since the contract is in his/her name. The fleet owner should be addressing your issue.
Save your money and forget the attorney in this case.

 

[ATeam]

When people have serious grievences against their carrier, I often suggest they get an attorney. Before that can happen, they have to assemble the details of their case and get their story straight so they can explain to the attorney what the problem actually is.

Almost always, that activity neutralizes the rage and the agrieved contractors find out they have little to be aggrieved about at all. They don't need legal advice to fight their carrier. They need legal advice to understand what they are actually talking about.

It's a lot easier to raise a stink than to do your homework. Suggesting an attorney forces them down the homework path and, in every instance I have seen, quiets the grievence.

They never actually go to an attorney. The attorney suggestion brings them face to face with the need to do their homework and that ends things.

rlmnjm played the attorney card in post 16. I encouraged him to follow through, expecting that he will no longer feel the need once his homework is done.

 

[greg334]

Well I think this is a good place to vent and get advice on how to handle it, not whining at all.

Reading your posts leaves one question that may solve some of your problem, it comes down to this;

they claimed it was a dispatcher error and it was illegal to do because it would take away from the truck owner.

The first thing that comes to mind is that dispatcher error or not, the company's representative made the deal and they should stand by it but the other and maybe more important thing is that this tells me that you are driving for someone who owns the truck and they need to be involved with this issue directly with Panther, not you. I don't know what the illegal part is, there isn't anything illegal I can see. BUT If it is true, the chances that a lawyer would consider taking a case would only to rectify the problem by pursuing it with the owner, not Panther because you have no contract with Panther.

 

[vanman10]

This is a *"drive by poster" venting about something that happened with his/her carrier and wanting us on EO to take a stand with him/her on information that is full of holes.

Deal with your carrier on this issue then maybe an attorney, but I am sure an attorney will want MUCH more information then you provided on these post and more $$$ then you may want to pay.

Showing up on a public forum and blasting your carrier is certainly not the way to solve your problem.

*Term borrowed from Bruno (Thanks)

 

[jelliott]

I would try talking with your carrier's chain of command. You may get a satisfactory result without the expense of an attorney and possibly ruining what could possibly be a good long term relationship with Panther. I think if an attorney is needed, it should be the last result, not the first.

 

[chefdennis]

Ahhhh...I have to ask, what is your owners position on this?? I mean, it is he who will or won't be paid and it is he that will pay you...so where is he in all of this?? As for going to a lawyer, i'd be talking to the owner 1st...remember, you drive for him, not Panther....

 

[Turtle]

From the Code of Conduct (you've all read that, right?):

6. Drive by posting (DBP) is prohibited.
A drive by posting (DBP)is when a new or newer member who has a personal issue or dispute with a carrier, dealer, manufacturer, fleet owner, fleet driver or any other entity and makes their first post as a negative attack or public scathing. Posts of this nature are disruptive and serve no purpose and subject to immediate removal. New members are required to have a minimum of ten (10) posts before they can make a controversial post on any topic.

This is, indeed a drive-by, and as with most drive-by posters who post their rant and then move on, never to be heard from again, I'll be surprised if rlmnjm hangs around long enough to make 10 posts, much less hangs around for the long term and ends up actually contributing to EO. Be that as it may, despite this being a clear drive-by, the evolution of the hen's teeth pulling of information and the responses generated should be beneficial to others, which is why I think the thread should remain, at least for now, unless it takes a turn for the surreal, which can also happen with drive-by posters.

It may help others to know that there is a difference between something being illegal (against the law - a criminal matter) and a civil dispute. Even a breach of contract is not against the law in most cases, and such a dispute is a civil matter.

It sounds like one of two things, that the driver misunderstood what he was told, and thought he would be getting empty move pay and deadhead pay for the same miles, or he was told that in error by a dispatcher. I know the latter certainly happened to me on several occasions when I was there. Greg brings up the important point that as a representative of the carrier, the dispatcher and the carrier, error or not, should stand by what they said. In many cases with me, they did not. It usually required several phone calls, first calmly stating the situation, and later becoming more irate, to resolve the situation. More often than not I was able to resolve the situation, usually by making a stink to the point of having someone pull the recorded conversation that backed up my claim. Most drivers will go, "Oh, OK" and resign to be screwed over by underpaid and overworked office personnel. I never did that. If there's a problem, hold their feet to the fire, and hold them to it right now. The longer you wait, the less likely you are to resolve it satisfactorily.

I once was told via phone and via a demanded QC message confirming it, that I would be paid both detention and layover pay for the same hours. When it came settlement time for them to pay it, it became a case of "dispatch error" and they weren't gonna pay.

They ended up paying it.

But they didn't pay it because I came onto EO and whined about it, that's for sure.

 

[UncleTed]

We were offered .40 a mile dead head for 333 miles, $233.10 Empty Move and a $75.00 Layover pay for driving to Iowa from Missouri to pick up a load and take it to Illinois and then pick up a load in Illinios and take it to Alabama. They told us we'd get the Empty move number when we unloaded the 2nd load...which we did.
Then, 2 days later, they send a message saying they were NOT going to pay us the Empty Move.
When we asked "Why"?, they claimed it was a dispatcher error and it was illegal to do because it would take away from the truck owner.
They made the deal...then took it away AFTER we done what we agreed to do!
Don't know how to explain it any clearer!

I detect an unusually large accumulation of bovine excrement.
Illegal? LOL. Better call the freight police!

 

[Bruno]

Ahhhh...I have to ask, what is your owners position on this?? I mean, it is he who will or won't be paid and it is he that will pay you...so where is he in all of this?? As for going to a lawyer, i'd be talking to the owner 1st...remember, you drive for him, not Panther....

Good point Dennis. When our drivers have a problem with a dispatcher at Panther (which I can count on one hand since we been there) we call driver relations. If the driver was on a empty move then was offered a load when they was 200 miles into it. The empty move stops at 200 miles and the deadhead starts from mile one after the load is accepted. The deadhead miles pay more per mile than a empty move, so where is Panther cheating them out of money. It seems to me that this driver assumed they was getting paid for a empty move and deadhead for the same miles. If your a driver for someone at Panther and you pay the fuel, your only getting 60% of the deadhead pay anyways. Some owners may do it different I don't know as we pay our drivers different.

Just looks like this is the case.

 

[Turtle]

Most carriers (except Load 1, of course) will screw you over at every opportunity. That's just the way it is. If it's to their benefit, which is of couse why you are leased on with them in the first place, then they'll do it. Panther is no different, and they will absolutely screw you over. However, Panther will only screw you over by the rules. They won't try and cheat you, but they'll use the rules, mostly their rules, to their advantage. It's to your advantage to know those rules and how to use them to your advantage.

Load offer, accept it, pick it up and deliver it, get paid. Anything outside of that simple scenario, anything unusual with a load that can affect your pay needs to have your full and devoted attention, by the rules. Anything unusual in your pay, if not taken care of immediately, will be looked at later, and if the rules so allow, they will disallow it and you will not get paid. Get it on the Qualcomm. One of the rules is, if it ain't on the QC, it didn't happen. Get it on the Qualcomm. Don't move until you get it on the Qualcomm.

If you ask for a bonus on a load because it takes you to a place where you'll have a lot of deadhead after delivery, don't ask for deadhead or empty move money, ask for a bonus, and tell them in plain and unambiguous fashion that it's not for deadhead, it's not for empty moves, it's a bonus amount of money that it will take for you to accept and run the load. If you ask for and get deadhead or empty move money, and after you deliver you then get a load, they will not pay that money, by the rules, because you didn't incur the deadhead. If you mention deadhead or bonus, and the dispatcher enters it into the system as such, then that's what it's for. If it's in there as a bonus and not specifically for deadhead, you'll get it, by the rules. If the dispatcher incorrectly enters it as deadhead or empty move, despite you saying specifically that it wasn't for that, and your voice was recorded saying as much, and their voice was recorded agreeing to it, and you have it over the Qualcomm stating "BONUS", then you'll get it, even if they try not to pay it at settlement time. You'll have to hold their feet to the fire, but you've got it in writing and on the recoding, by the rules. Know the rules.

 

[greg334]

I think the entire thing can be summed up by asking who pays the person. I mean if the owner pays them, that's the owner's problem. If they own the truck, then that's a different issue altogether.

 

[beachbum]

When we asked "Why"?, they claimed it was a dispatcher error and it was illegal to do because it would take away from the truck owner.

Did I miss something, do you own the vehicle or do you drive for someone.

Even if you talk to a lawyer its only 233 bucks, sometimes its just better to take a small loss then to **** off a dispatcher or a company. Most of the time if your smart you do as others have suggested and go up the food chain to see if anything can be done.

 

[cheri1122]

When we asked "Why"?, they claimed it was a dispatcher error and it was illegal to do because it would take away from the truck owner.

If it's illegal to "take away from the truck owner", there's a whole bunch of carriers and drivers running illegal [except Load One] lol.

Funniest driveby ever, but the advice is spot on, whatever the dispute.

Did I miss something, do you own the vehicle or do you drive for someone.

Even if you talk to a lawyer its only 233 bucks, sometimes its just better to take a small loss then to **** off a dispatcher or a company. Most of the time if your smart you do as others have suggested and go up the food chain to see if anything can be done.

 

[turritrans]

Like anything else, need to get things in writing..or in this case the agreed pay sent over the QC.

Simple, just goto driver relations and say so and so dispatcher forgot to send over the DH pay.

Issue now is....they will be waiting for you after this thread!

 

[CharlesD]

One other thought: Negative posts on an open forum are poison for your future prospects. These things are wide open and the company owners read them, too. So, legal or not, this might not have been one of the better ideas.

Words of wisdom there.