LEFT vs RIGHT

[Broompilot]

This could go into a different Topic Heading:

I feel its just to important for most not to view:

How many times have you been in a conversation or over heard (maybee even you believe this) ITS ALL BUSH's fault HE IS GETTING RICH and so are his Oil Buddies:

Do you really BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THE TRUTH?

Fact: Bush is not my favorite President. I use to believe in him but no longer:
I do not believe this oil problem to be all his doing:

Reason? Look back When the Dems were voted into Congress/Senate in the last election Boxer, and Nancy both VOWED to dissrupt any Legislation that Bush would be supporting: The price of fuel started its price rise approx: 6-8 months following those elections:

Thus am I not seeing this correctly but instead of working together for the Benefit of the U.S. people they are Tearing this Country apart Blocking any attempt for us to be self sufficent on our OWN RESOURCES and depending on others. Who can blame another country for telling us: We got what you want and this is OUR PRICE pay it or you do not get it.

But let our Farmers Gouge the Rest of the World so we SUBSIDIZE everythiing to benefit the rest of the World. We let our Enemies who would cut our HEAD OFF have access to our Courts instead of being treated as POWs. We pass laws that hurt our trade, we let illegals have an upperhand in business to undercut our own Citizens ON OUR OWN TURF. We even go as far as to let CHILD RAPEST get the possibility of being RELEASED to do it over again puttiing a family who has suffered this kinda of loss to live it over again.

We import dangerious foods into our Country and hurt all American Farmers (Tomatoes) that now looks like they came from Mexico and if we did the same to another Country? We would now have another loop hole law.

We cannot even run our own Business's for Profits without thinking every single step of the way about Tax Concequences: Example Buy a Truck and decide to go into another business and sell it and wait till you see the Tax Bill. One should be able to decide how one should or could depriciate a business purchase not the Govt. Personally I would rather have 0 depreiciation than get hit with a WHAMMY later and be TAXED for $ I never earned in the first place:

The list of laws goes on and on, just look at the Tax Code its all working against us, just like the majority of our SO CALLED LEADERS in the House, and Congress:

Thank you for letting me rant, my theory is our leaders are out to destroy this Country as we now know it, and its time we start LETTING THEM KNOW.

 

[davekc]

I don't think either party has an answer. I think we are way past the "Let's blame Bush"

 

[layoutshooter]

You are soooo right Dave, none of those guys have the answer. Government should facilitate, not mandate. They should assist not rule. They really need to just get out of the way. Left vs. right? Both parties keep going further left with every election. You see the results. They want to control, they really think that they know what is better for you than you do. I would love to see a change, back to real freedom. Turn loose the American spirit, we can slove any problem out there, if we are allowed too. They like the stalemates and love to have so called un-solvalbe problems. Makes it easier to control you. Layoutshooter

 

[davekc]

Just look at the energy issues. One says drill, which is fine but will take years to have any effect, and the other says "Lets tax the hell out of the oil companies". The oil companies will just past that cost right through the pump. Their profit margin isn't going to change. The most they might do is start posting prices by the half gallon rather than by the gallon in a effort to charge a little more and make us feel good.
With neither having a plan, the best bet is to take the drilling. At least with that there is a payoff at some point.

 

[Suds43]

You hit the nail on the head Broom.........seems like all of the House and Congress are on a big ego trip!! The "look at me" syndrome, and watch how I use my power!!!
In reality, it doesn't matter who's in the White House, Congress controls the money! Period! The Pres. can't spend one single dime without Congress approval. I put most of my attention during elections on our Representatives and Congressmen/women. Their the ones with all the real power.....
This Presidential election won't see my vote for who lives in the White house for the next 4 yrs.
I"ll definitely be voting for Congress and the House though!!!!

Just my .02 worth

 

[layoutshooter]

We should have been drilling all along. It takes time to see the results and we have wasted a lot of it. We need the old style fuels till something new comes along. It is being worked on. Suds is right, it is the congress that spends and taxes. You should vote for pres though, that is the only you have the right to B*TCH!!! That is the main reason I vote. None of them ever even come close to representing my beliefs. Layoutshooter

 

[copdsux]

Have any of you paid any attention to the premise that oil speculators are, for the large part, responsible for the run-up in oil prices?

 

[nightcreacher]

The dollar isnt worth crap.so specuiators have gone to oil.It wont matter if opec gives us more oil,speculators are making the price go up.Weare not in a shortage.Supply and demand.Only way to get the price down,stop buying.Stay home,watch TV,play video games,dont drive your car except when you really need to,and make all your trips in one day.As far as our trucks,well,slow down,if i can do it we all can do it.I'm over 7 mpg for the year.When the retailer isnt selling,the wholesaler will have to drop their price so then the price will come down,and thats the only way it will happen

 

[Turtle]

Supply and demand.Only way to get the price down,stop buying.

Does anybody really think this kind of spike in pricing is a result of an equal spike in demand?

 

[LDB]

In reality, it doesn't matter who's in the White House, Congress controls the money! Period!
This Presidential election won't see my vote for who lives in the White house for the next 4 yrs.
I"ll definitely be voting for Congress and the House though!!!!

Just my .02 worth

BIG mistake. Ever heard of the Supreme Court? Ever heard the word veto? Recently the SC made a correct decision, but only by a 50-4 vote, that even with the ban in place on outside carry the residents of D.C. have the right to have a gun to protect themselves in their homes. Any fool knows Article Two guarantees that so it should have won 9-0. The next president will almost assuredly nominate SC judges. McCain is too liberal for that but heaven help us if Obama makes the nominations.

Which of those two do you think is more likely to veto Pelosi, Kennedy and the other fools up there? It makes a BIG difference who's in the White House. Not voting, or voting for Nader or any other third party at this stage in history, is almost assuredly voting for Obama. Every intelligent American will be voting against him.

 

[RLENT]

Does anybody really think this kind of spike in pricing is a result of an equal spike in demand?

A spike in demand here in the US ...... or rise in demand elsewhere in the world ?

Also remember - a graph showing a rise in consumption wouldn't necessarily have to look identical (same degree of steepness as the price graph) - it would only have to show a rise in demand with a date coincidence, to the point where demand exceeded supply ..... from there, the the bidding up of the price could occur to any level .... depending on how much of a shortfall there was between available supply and the current demand ...... and how bad "consumers' (ie. those buying the oil) wanted it.

..... not that I don't believe speculation is a huge factor in current prices ......

 

[LDB]

Speculation is certainly a factor in the prices. Demand elsewhere in the world is a factor. The third leg on that triangle is the almost 60% rise in prices since Pelosi and the dems took control. Now I'm not saying they have anything to do with demand worldwide. They have no effect on that. They do have an effect, and control of, the ongoing obstructionist position on domestic production. Had Pelosi et al come in and immediately taken a stand that $3 fuel is too high and acted we would be almost ready to start using domestic production fuel. Pelosi, et al, have also had PLENTY of time to pass legislation requiring larger margins on oil speculation. While less effective than domestic production, that would also help moderate fuel prices.

Obama is against all this just as Pelosi and the rest of the democrats are. If you like what you are paying for fuel now, vote Obama. You'll become absolutely ecstatic after he gets in and fuel goes up another dollar or two.

 

[layoutshooter]

The prices we see are being caused by a hugh increase in demand world wide and it is not going to stop. We have to start drilling NOW!! It will take a few years for the product to reach the markets but we have let way too much time pass. We should be making all of our diesel out of coal. It would now be cheaper than oil and we have a 200 year supply, give or take a year or two. Then we need to change our tax system to encorage invention. The private sector will come up with the new ways to do things, not government. Our government uses the tax code for dis-incentives. It should only be used to raise revenue. Layoutshooter

 

[Turtle]

Sure, there has been an increase in demand worldwide, but not to the level that we are seeing which would correlate to the increase in prices. Nor have we had a flat or lagging supply. Over the past two years where the graph has spiked, worldwide supply has pretty much kept up with worldwide demand. Demand in the US and Europe has remained essentially flat over the past two years (while reserves have actually increased to the point where domestic refineries were able to reduce production). Demand has, indeed, risen in China and India, but not to the kind of levels that would indicate a 100% increase in the cost of crude, particularly since suppliers have had no problems in keeping up with the demand.

It reminds me of the MPAA whining about Internet piracy of movies killing the movie industry, while at the same time box office ticket sales are at record levels. Yeah, well.

Cude oil prices is not about supply and demand, not now.

Just some FYI stuff:

The world's top five crude oil-producing countries are:

Saudi Arabia

Russia

United States

Iran

China
31% of the crude oil produced in the United Stated comes from offshore in the Gulf of Mexico.

The top five crude oil-producing states are:
Texas
Alaska
California
Louisiana
Oklahoma

One 42-gallon (US gallon) barrel of crude oil produces about 44 gallons of petroleum products. 19.6 gallons of gasoline, about 7 gallons of diesel, and a plethora of other products like LPG, naptha, jet fuel, kerosene, industrial fuel, asphalt base, ink, crayons, bubble gum, dishwashing liquids, deodorant, eyeglasses, records, tires, ammonia, and heart valves.

Double-Bubble, anyone?

 

[greg334]

The prices we see are being caused by a hugh increase in demand world wide and it is not going to stop.

I don't see this huge increase as the real problem, we don't have shortages and the countries who are ramping up consumption are doing so with new suppliers.

For instance China has been buying oil from Russia who is using their resources to drill and process oil. They haven't been able to do with since the 80's and now are benefiting form the high prices. China is in Africa, in our gulf and in other parts of the world trying to source their needs.

BUT speculation comes from emotion, in this case we have two sources to spur that emotion on, one is the Saudis when they made the comment that oil will hit $200 a barrel and the other is one of the investment companies here who said oil will hit $150 a barrel. ALL the experts have repeatedly said that if it was not for speculation in the markets and we didn't have that falling dollar, oil would be about $50 a barrel.

I stand by the idea that if we want to end the inflating of oil prices, the president has to take a stand and do the following;

Demand that congress puts a stop to the environmental lawsuits, repeals the laws that allow the environmental groups to sue to stop these things and to push through legislation that forbids the federal courts from hearing any cases that are to stop any energy projects.

The DOD has been working with coal to fuel technology to ensure there is oil, that technology needs put in use for the public, not just the military.

Push for EPA reforms, get the charter re-written to take in account some of the economic impact that EPA policies and regs can cause.

Allow drilling any where and every where - this includes changing the laws where states have control of federal waters, like Florida and California. These are considered national protected waterways and the state has no jurisdiction over them.

Task the NRC to license nuke reactors and set a mandate for completion of 20 of them by 2015.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

We know the refiners have cut production so it would follow that Gas reserves would go down abit...now Speculators see the drop in the inventory, claim a shortage of suppy and the price of oil goes or stays high. Isn't that alittle bit of collusion?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Just look at the energy issues. One says drill, which is fine but will take years to have any effect, and the other says "Lets tax the hell out of the oil companies". The oil companies will just past that cost right through the pump. Their profit margin isn't going to change. The most they might do is start posting prices by the half gallon rather than by the gallon in a effort to charge a little more and make us feel good.
With neither having a plan, the best bet is to take the drilling. At least with that there is a payoff at some point.

They say if we started today in ANWAR, it would take 10 years to take effect. First vote on opening ANWAR to drilling was in 1996, which Clinton vetoed. Hmm... 1996+10 years. Hell! We would've had oil two years ago! When they voted again, a few years back, there were too many Rhinos to pass the bill, which Bush would've signed. Now, there's no hope to get it passed by a Congress that preaches it would only be a drop in the bucket of the world market. This Congress holds ALL of the cards, yet can blame Bush for everything. Funny, but in hindsight, it comes back to the first black president... Clinton.

And then there's the refinery problem...

 

[tallcal101]

What really cracks me up regardoing this debate about the merrits of Bush bashing,or the commonly heard "it makes no difrerence" is that those who are moaning about the system are the very ones who have a right leaning agenda. I know, the "I've changed my mind about Bush " Republicans really have nothing else they can say without looking foolish.It's a shame.Crow go's best with a good boubon.
If I'm to take Daves positon that it no longer matters who we vote for, their all the same (an argument that first started 200 years ago) where would we be as a nation ?
Yes,Bush as President for the last 8 years has had a melting effect on our country,and many would just as soon take the "their all idoits" tact. But you know what ,we will survive even the worst Presidency in the history our fair land. We can and will move on,and I don't mean .org. I'm not a member and have never logged on. I think for myself and don't have a pack mentality
So get over your two wasted votes,support our troops and let the Iraqis caugh up the billions they have stolen from us and fight their own damend war for freedom. We have far more serious work to do at home and in the all but forgotten home of the Taliban, Afgahnistan.And quit whinning about the bleak and dismal future of what the possibilty of a new day in American politics might mean for us. It's obvious which party will probably not to be trusted for another chance to get it right.It would be no different if the shoe was on the other foot. Bill went out with 85% approval and a balanced budget. He also told a lie,which only a small group of Republicans cared about,but then Bush told a whole series of lies and 4500 young Americans paid the utlimate price.
It's time for a change.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

A lot of ppl, including me, see this as the "change" Obama is offering, and that you're asking for, Tallcal.

 

[greg334]

THERE WAS NOT
A BALANCED BUDGET

AND NEVER WAS WITH
BILL CLINTON

Learn how it works before repeating LIES.

It is not difficult to follow the money or the press releases, it was a budget projection and it was destroyed when the tech sector took a nose dive in dot com crash which started to shake out in early 2000 (Y2K anyone?) and really hit before Bush took office.

SORRY TALLCAL, but the fact remains among the people who know how this works that the losses in the stock market were a big problem to the point that Clinton could not depend on the revenue that it used for the projection and it left a bigger deficit going into the new administration than it came in with.

IN FACT the idea behind lowering taxes under Bush was not because the rich needed a break but because there had to be something to stop the policies of the Clinton administration from slamming the stock market and the country hard enough to put us into a deep recession (could they be considered failed policies by chance?).

Andy, as much as it pains me to say this, I really think you take this moveon.org/DNC email stuff too far serious.
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