Leaving panther beware
- Thread starter ttruck
- Start date
I used to deal with the same stuff at Panther. But, there comes a time when "playing the Panther carrier game" begins to wear you down emotionally and physically. Why do they have to make it that hard for a guy to do a job? I can understand playing those types of games with new drivers, or drivers who have poor on time percentages. But if you have a driver that knows how to manage time and is always on time or early to pickup and delivery, why play games with that type of driver? Oh, I also left Panther and they gave my back my escrow money.
I returned all of the items they gave me; including their Qualcomm. I took pictures of it as I bubble wrapped it and carefully packed it up in a nice big box. Then I took out 2k worth of insurance on the package and shipped it off. I then provided their recruiting department with a tracking number and all was good. I think they pay you faster if you do things in a professional manner. I also sent them back the scraped off decals. That is another thing that they look for when you quit working for them. They want to make sure that they get their decals back. They don't want a rogue Panther cargo van running around doing crazy stuff after you quit working for them.
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That's at least one more time than I've been there and I'm leased to them.
BigCat
Expert Expediter
I think they new if they started my clock and I couldn't run it by the time hours run out the would be cross docking or towing to cons. Cargo vans are different in the sense that they don't log.
CharlesD
Expert Expediter
As a carrier hauling the occasional load for them it's a little different, but some of the same stuff as well. For one, and I can't put an exact figure to it, but it seems that a lot more loads we get from them "cancel" than from any other freight source. What we've come to do when we book a load so many hours in advance that the driver has to deadhead a bit to, is tell them that if it cancels when our guy is on route, we expect dry run, and a higher than normal amount. We've had a few loads out west where you have 300 miles DH to get the load and it cancels when the truck's already gone 200 of those miles. I don't care how much in advance it was booked. I think the driver needs to be compensated at that point.
I also suspect that they skim off the dry run and detention charges. What other reason is there for wanting to pay $35 for an hour of detention when darn near everyone else pays $50 or more? If we get detention or dry run pay, that all goes to the driver or partner carrier that's doing the load.
Also, what can be entertaining at times are the notes that show up on the rate sheets when we get loads from them. Sometimes dispatch notes are visible on the rate sheet to the partner carrier and we will see frequently where unit such and such backed out on the load after sitting there for a couple hours. Maybe that's the "it's ready now" thing you guys are talking about. Other times it will be a load to an out of the way area and we'll see where the driver wanted more than they were willing to pay and they had to broker the load out. Then we bid a high amount and I sometimes wonder if they wouldn't have been better off just giving it to their own guy at that rate.
On the other hand, I'm not going to rip them too hard because we do handle a fair number of their loads and most of them go off without a problem. The people who work with their partner carriers are really pretty easy to work with and we'll continue to haul their freight as long as they continue to pay promptly, which they've never failed to do.
I also suspect that they skim off the dry run and detention charges. What other reason is there for wanting to pay $35 for an hour of detention when darn near everyone else pays $50 or more? If we get detention or dry run pay, that all goes to the driver or partner carrier that's doing the load.
Also, what can be entertaining at times are the notes that show up on the rate sheets when we get loads from them. Sometimes dispatch notes are visible on the rate sheet to the partner carrier and we will see frequently where unit such and such backed out on the load after sitting there for a couple hours. Maybe that's the "it's ready now" thing you guys are talking about. Other times it will be a load to an out of the way area and we'll see where the driver wanted more than they were willing to pay and they had to broker the load out. Then we bid a high amount and I sometimes wonder if they wouldn't have been better off just giving it to their own guy at that rate.
On the other hand, I'm not going to rip them too hard because we do handle a fair number of their loads and most of them go off without a problem. The people who work with their partner carriers are really pretty easy to work with and we'll continue to haul their freight as long as they continue to pay promptly, which they've never failed to do.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Used Panther a couple of times. One was after we dropped a railyard load in western Nebraska. Found a Panther load going from eastern NE to NC, and gave us just enough time to dh there... 330 miles, IIRC. Got there, they had no idea. PU# didn't match up with anything. Ended up being a dry run. $150 for 330 miles. Also caused us to lose a load from Denver, which was offered right after Panther accepted our rate.
Can't play games with your partners, as the lack of trust will end up costing you in the end.
Can't play games with your partners, as the lack of trust will end up costing you in the end.
It's actually pretty standard in the industry for the carrier to pay out, say, 62% (or whatever the normal line haul percentage is) of all accessorials, including dry run and detention pay. Unless Panther has changed it in the last year or so, their trucks are paid $15 an hour detention after two hours. Most of Panther's contracts with customer show they charge the customer $35 an hour for detention, after two hours. That's one of, if not the lowest detention rate that I know of. They're afraid of making a customer mad with a high rate for detention. Dry run same thing, it's really low. But as a result, when someone is on the hook for $35, they don't care. At Panther I had paid detention 5 or 6 times a month.
I miss the good old days of Con-Way NOW where detention for trucks was after 2 hours and vans was after 1 hour, and it was $50 per half hour, rounded up to the next hour (31 minutes was billed as one hour). When someone is on the hook for $100 an hour, they care. In three years with Con-Way NOW I had detention twice. One of them was for 9 hours, which at Panther would have paid $120.
That's a precedent they try to avoid setting at all costs with their own trucks. They'd rather broker it out and lose money than get their drivers used to being paid more. It's cheaper in the long run.
I still remember that time in Dallas on, so long ago. I had just finished a long run and was unavailable for the short run that came up. Me and two other Panther vans were the only 3 on the board in Dallas, and all 3 of us were at the J. The load picked up at UPS Freight, I think. Standard Panther pay would have been about $75 for that load, because it was a short mini. I know one driver asked for $150 and Panther objected and offered it to #2 on the board, and he asked for $175. So, Panther put it on the board rather than come back to the first driver. Charles bid $250 and got the load. Easy peasy.
That stuff goes on all the time at the larger carriers. Ask me how I know. As for Panther doing it, just have to watch if a load is turned down and see what it goes for on thier web-X page. Of course they aren't fond of sharing that with the bulk of their contractors for the reason Turtle mentioned. As for detention, that 15 must be for vans? Haven't seen that number.
As for Panther doing it, just have to watch if a load is turned down and see what it goes for on thier web-X page. Of course they aren't fond of sharing that with the bulk of their contractors for the reason Turtle mentioned. As for detention, that 15 must be for vans? Haven't seen that number.
CharlesD
Expert Expediter
That stuff goes on all the time at the larger carriers. Ask me how I know.
Of course that information gets out if one of their partners happens to be parked next to one of their contractors. Oops.
It probably is for vans, then. When you max out at 9 hours of detention, you get a whopping $135. It always struck me as funny when detention was one hour, because you're sitting there for a total of three hours, as $5 per hour. That's exactly what you're worth at Panther, five bucks an hour. And it's why nobody ever got too bent out of shape over letting a van sit there for 2 or 3 hours. It's pocket change. They don't care.
And it's also why "It's ready now" is used so often with vans, because it doesn't cost them a thing. They don't care.
Another one they do, not sure with trucks, but with vans, they won't tell you want the actual Protect Time is. Even when you ask. I've asked and they've told me they aren't allowed to tell me. Sometimes it's whatever the scheduled time is, deliver direct, ASAP, but more often than not the protect time is several hours after the scheduled time. They tell you "deliver direct" on nearly every load, if not on every load, regardless of what the actual protect time might be. I understand why they do that, of course. One, they want you there ASAP so they no longer have to worry about you getting there, and two, because some drivers will go and do all kinds of things along the way and then end up being late for a plethora of reasons. But if you've got a scheduled time of 10PM and the protect time isn't until 8AM the next morning, it would be nice to know that.
I once refused a load that no one else was around to take, because there wasn't enough time to get the rest I'd need to safely run it. I told them I'd need at least another 12 hours in that load. I had just dropped off after a long one and needed rest soon, and then another break somewhere along the way, as well. Turned out the protect time was 48 hours after the scheduled pickup time. So, they added 12 hours onto the scheduled time. They didn't change it to the protect time, mind you, but simply added 12 hours onto it, leaving another 36 hours to spare. I asked why not just change it to the real time that it's supposed to be there? "Oh, no, we need you there as soon as possible." <snort>
And it's also why "It's ready now" is used so often with vans, because it doesn't cost them a thing. They don't care.
Another one they do, not sure with trucks, but with vans, they won't tell you want the actual Protect Time is. Even when you ask. I've asked and they've told me they aren't allowed to tell me. Sometimes it's whatever the scheduled time is, deliver direct, ASAP, but more often than not the protect time is several hours after the scheduled time. They tell you "deliver direct" on nearly every load, if not on every load, regardless of what the actual protect time might be. I understand why they do that, of course. One, they want you there ASAP so they no longer have to worry about you getting there, and two, because some drivers will go and do all kinds of things along the way and then end up being late for a plethora of reasons. But if you've got a scheduled time of 10PM and the protect time isn't until 8AM the next morning, it would be nice to know that.
I once refused a load that no one else was around to take, because there wasn't enough time to get the rest I'd need to safely run it. I told them I'd need at least another 12 hours in that load. I had just dropped off after a long one and needed rest soon, and then another break somewhere along the way, as well. Turned out the protect time was 48 hours after the scheduled pickup time. So, they added 12 hours onto the scheduled time. They didn't change it to the protect time, mind you, but simply added 12 hours onto it, leaving another 36 hours to spare. I asked why not just change it to the real time that it's supposed to be there? "Oh, no, we need you there as soon as possible." <snort>
I think that is more of a van issue on the time. They are pretty good at giving us that type of information. I think many vanners abuse the time so they make a blanket rule on the time for them. Or...that is what I hear out of dispatch. May be somewhat true as we have done a "load" and the purpose was to go locate a van and wake them up. No freight hauled on our end. Imagine that. Yep....we will go wake a van driver up for $250 that is 50 miles away.
Yep....we will go wake a van driver up for $250 that is 50 miles away.
I once had to take a swap from someone because they wee running 8 hours late. Dood picked up the load in Indy, and then went to Muncie to see his kids. For 8 hours. He was driving for a fleet owner and had been at Panther for almost two weeks. That was his last load with Panther.
Ironically, I delivered the load to Newport-News 6 hours before the actual protect time.
Ironically, I delivered the load to Newport-News 6 hours before the actual protect time.
bubblehead
Veteran Expediter
They abuse van drivers as a matter of routine. They do that, of course, because most van drivers are morons and will allow themselves to be abused. Straight truck O/O and fleet owners simply won't put up with that crap. Now you're messing with available HoS, load opportunities and revenue, so it becomes serious in a heartbeat. But van drivers driving for fleet owners will put up with it because they don't know any better. And the van fleet owners will put up with it because they don't care, as their vans are out there making them extra pocket money and they aren't going to make the effort for the moron they know they have in their van. Many van O/O don't know any better, either. "I gots my van and my keys and I'm ready to make money," is generally the extent of their knowledge of the industry and how it all works.
There are exception, of course. People with extensive experience, like Moot, for example, and those who have bothered to learn the business and know the rules.
Even in a van, with Panther's 16-hour clock and 5-hour break mandate, "It's ready now" can really screw the pooch if it ain't ready. I once delivered a load to Ithaca, NY at 10AM and my clock wouldn't reset for 5 hours of being motionless until 3PM. At 11AM they called with a load going 930 to Decherd, TN that had a 2PM pickup time and said, "It's ready now."
If I wait until 2PM to pick it up my clock won't reset because I won't have had a 5-hour break and my current 16-hour clock runs out at 9PM. And there's no time in the load to take a 5-hour break along the way. There's time for a 4-hour break, but that won't cut it. However, if I pick it up now, since it's ready, those extra two+ hours out of the shipper gives me ample time to take a 5-hour break en route to the delivery and still leave me more than an hour to spare. I asked, "Are you sure it's ready now? Because if it is I can do it. If it's not I can't." The reply was, "Oh, yeah, it's ready now."
I get to the shipper and they haven't even been told to make the parts yet. They don't know anything about it. They check and say they'll have it by 2PM. Great. It's noon. Now my 16-hour clock is still running and I can't wait around until 5PM to reset it, and there's no time to reset it along the way. Instead of 930 miles, the load swapped out 230 miles later in Carlisle, PA.
Talk about being ****ed off. I could see it coming, told the dispatcher what would happen, and she said, "No, no, no," and it happened. After that I started using the "It's ready now" against them, playing their games right back at them.
That wasn't the first run-in with that particular dispatcher, either. After that, I took particular satisfaction in making her job as difficult as I possibly could.
Turtle, thanks for your information. You have basically described the scurge of society. Based on what you have said (and I believe you) after the FBI etal finishes with Pilot, they need to get an insider at Panther. Your description gives prostitutes a much higher status than the dispatchers at Panther. I am satisfied where I am at for now. But when I am asked by others seeking general information about carriers, I have now taken Panther off my list for vanners and refer them to this forum. This is the story that needs to be told! The true "Good, Bad and Ugly."