Lack of Consequences

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
The opposite didn't happen, but you can't pretend that some people who approved of 'street justice' in previous incidents are talking out of the other side of their mouths now, decrying the lack of harsh punishment for it.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
As most likely one of "the same folks" referenced, it has zero to do with race and everything to do with bad judging. It also has nothing to do with vigilante-ism. It has to do with what happened in the courtroom of a dumb judge, perhaps dumber than dirt, who completely blew it.

I agree that the judge blew it. The crime, however, was vigilanteeism, and it's ironic that people are unhappy over the lenient punishment for a crime they've so often approved of.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I agree that the judge blew it. The crime, however, was vigilanteeism, and it's ironic that people are unhappy over the lenient punishment for a crime they've so often approved of.
The crime was attempted murder. The reason they failed (murder)was because a person intervened. Lucky them. He was unconscious and they were still hitting him. Let's deal with each incident on an individual basis,according to the facts, please.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The opposite didn't happen, but you can't pretend that some people who approved of 'street justice' in previous incidents are talking out of the other side of their mouths now, decrying the lack of harsh punishment for it.
The 'street justice' by these thugs was to pulverize a guys face in because Utash's vehicle hit a kid in the roadway. The guy got out of his truck to help the kid and was mob rushed.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
True.


True.

FWIW, The general public in the Detroit metro area is absolutely livid with this sentence.

We will see just how "livid" they are come election time. I also believe that the judge can be impeached. Any bets nothing is done to remove him from the bench?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
As is often the case in mod violence, not everyone in the mob contributes equally, and therefore should not be equally punished. I didn't watch the trial, so of course I don't know, but based on the comments from the judge and others involved in the trial, that seems to be the case with these two guys.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The MAXIMUM sentence that was handed out was 6.5 years. THAT is far too little for the severity of the crime in itself and that was ONLY handed down due to prior convictions.

The judge blew it.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
If it took 40 kicks and punches to do all that damage, and one person did all 40, then yeah, they should get 30 years. But if 40 people all got in one each, then 30 years for each of them is a little overboard. It's like the motorcycle riders who pulled that driver out of his car in NYC. The ones who did the most damage got the most severe sentences, and the ones who did less got the lessor sentences. In this case the crime was assault, and there were at least 10 people involved.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Then INTENT was to kill. ALL who participated are equally guilty. Then there is the severe alteration in the man's life. This could even lead to an earlier death. EVERYONE in that mob CHOSE to take part. EACH individual made a deliberate choice to help in the attempt to kill this man.

They judge blew it. The entire mess was screwed up, from day one. There is no valid excuse for the attack in the first place and to limit the sentences to the extremely light ones that were handing out shows this judges tacit acceptance of this kind of mob action. The judge should be impeached.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Then INTENT was to kill.
Wow, there was a trial and everything, and it came out in the trial that "one or two punches or kicks by each defendant was not intent to kill," yet you can make a statement like that. It's impressive that you know more about what went on in the minds of those who participated in the assault than they did themselves. Very impressive, indeed.

ALL who participated are equally guilty.
Equally? No. The law says people are only guilty of what they themselves do, not for what others do.

Then there is the severe alteration in the man's life. This could even lead to an earlier death. EVERYONE in that mob CHOSE to take part. EACH individual made a deliberate choice to help in the attempt to kill this man.
EACH, deliberate choice, to kill. Those indicate premeditation. Yet there was no evidence of that at trial, and in fact evidence presented, including testimony, show otherwise. Yet for some reason you want to dismiss the evidence in favor of your own belief. That's dangerous, man. That's the kind of talk that can whip up a mob into a frenzy, and I'm sure you wouldn't want to be equally guilty of the actions of others.

They judge blew it. The entire mess was screwed up, from day one. There is no valid excuse for the attack in the first place and to limit the sentences to the extremely light ones that were handing out shows this judges tacit acceptance of this kind of mob action. The judge should be impeached.
Well OK then.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You can believe ANYTHING you like. Explain away the MAXIMUM sentence of ONLY 6.5 years.

This man's life is in shambles. He is facing massive medical bills which he cannot pay. What is being done for HIM? You know the VICTIM in this case. Not a freakin thing. He was hung out to dry.

There is no justice, in this case, and I believe it points out a much wider problem we face in this country. We are far too tolerant of violent crime, to quick to dismiss the severity of crimes and do far too little to provide for those who fall victim to the kind of scum who attacked a man who did NOTHING wrong. A man who did as he should under the circumstances, stopped, and almost paid with his life for doing right. The message sent? RUN, don't stop, it's not safe to do so.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There actually wasn't a trial in this case.There was testimony in a preliminary hearing only. All five defendants accepted plea deals and pled guilty to a lesser charge/offense. One was sentenced to 6-10 years. One was adjudicated in juvenile court. Another received a reduced sentence for agreeing to testify in future trials. Regarding at least one of the remaining defendants, a case could have been made that there was intent to kill. Testimony in the prelim by one of the witnesses stated as follows from article:
Cummings “was crying, ‘That’s my nephew. I’m going to kill him. I’m going to kill him,’” she said.



Premeditation is not an actual element of second degree murder, but the testimony does indicate, in at least one of the defendants, intent to kill. It is a moot point now, as they all took plea deals.
Regarding some of the remaining individuals that might be prosecuted, the intent to do great bodily harm would be an appropriate charge for them.
Woman: 15 to 20 ‘just stomping’ Steven Utash in Detroit beating
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
There actually wasn't a trial in this case.There was testimony in a preliminary hearing only.
Not that it's going to matter, or do any good, but I'm going to do it anyway. There are several different types of trials other than "jury" and "bench" (or "court") trials. A preliminary hearing is a trial. So is a preliminary arraignment. So is a grand jury proceeding.

A trial is simply (spoiler alert: legal definition to follow) a judicial examination and determination of facts and legal issues arising between parties to a civil or criminal action.

Whenever facts are presented to a judge (or tribunal) and any determination of those facts or legal issues are made, that's a trial. The trial ends when the examination is completed and a judgment can be entered. The ending of a trial can happen when pleas are offered and accepted, or in the case of a jury trial with the formal acceptance and recording of a verdict decisive of the entire action.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Much of what drives these kinds of outcomes is because of the mandatory minimum sentencing laws. Many plead out so they won't have to face that. Basically a circus.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Heck of a message that judge sent. Join a mob, try to kill a man for no valid reason, and little will be done to you. SO HAVE AT IT GUYS! :mad:

There is no justice. Just lawyers and back scratching.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Yep, lawyers looking for cash and prosecutors looking for wins so they can get re-elected.
 
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