Judge Rules: MN Fatigue Program Violated 4th Amendment

[ATeam]

This is one of the many reasons I am pleased to support OOIDA and contribute to its PAC and litigation funds.

From OOIDA:

"Friday, Jan. 28, 2011 – In what the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association legal team calls a 'major victory,' U.S. District Judge Donovan W. Frank ruled the Minnesota State Patrol’s use of CVSA Level III inspections to determine fatigue violated truckers’ Fourth Amendment rights....

"...The decision will affect fatigue enforcement around the country, not just in Minnesota, Cullen said."

Full story

 

[layoutshooter]

This is one of the many reasons I am pleased to support OOIDA and contribute to its PAC and litigation funds.

From OOIDA:

"Friday, Jan. 28, 2011 – In what the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association legal team calls a 'major victory,' U.S. District Judge Donovan W. Frank ruled the Minnesota State Patrol’s use of CVSA Level III inspections to determine fatigue violated truckers’ Fourth Amendment rights....

"...The decision will affect fatigue enforcement around the country, not just in Minnesota, Cullen said."

Full story

It is about time. Let's hope that this ruling leads to some sanity in enforcement. We have little of that now.

 

[skyraider]

It is about time. Let's hope that this ruling leads to some sanity in enforcement. We have little of that now.

maybe the officers need to attend sleep apnea courses and snoring level testing too..mboa.

 

[layoutshooter]

maybe the officers need to attend sleep apnea courses and snoring level testing too..mboa.

Maybe the officers should do the job they should be doing and inspect trucks. If the logs are OK, that is that.

I have no doubt that they sometimes run into drivers who are, without a doubt, too tired to be driving. There needs to be a way to address that without all the silly stuff. No CSA points etc. A sort of "strong friendly" suggestion that they shut it down for 10 hours or so.

 

[TeamCaffee]

And you wonder why we are going to EOBR's?

 

[layoutshooter]

And you wonder why we are going to EOBR's?

It will not take long for someone to find away to cheat on them as well, if not already. Not only drivers will be looking for ways to cheat, trucking companies as well. EOBR's will help, but not solve problems like this.

The MN thing was beyond the hours and logs. The "check list" was a major part of the problem. It was all about revenue. Just as most of the new regs coming down are to a large degree. Little science in the new HOS proposal.

 

[moose]

And you wonder why we are going to EOBR's?

EOBR's are not about enforcement ,it is about compliance ,money & drivers liability .
EOBR'S should never play a rule in the enforcement practice.

this is a big win for the professional driver ,
on it's way for another win regarding the officers authority.

i wonder if the officers involved will face personal liability actions.

 

[greg334]

I'm just wondering if this also can be applied to the FMCSA up and coming requirements to reading the cpap machine usage?

 

[layoutshooter]

I'm just wondering if this also can be applied to the FMCSA up and coming requirements to reading the cpap machine usage?

Good question.

 

[BillChaffey]

According to the December\January issue of "Land Line" "The Patrol is back on the job-with retrained officers and policies"
The State will most likly appeal some part of the Decision.

 

[ATeam]

It will not take long for someone to find away to cheat on them as well, if not already. Not only drivers will be looking for ways to cheat, trucking companies as well. EOBR's will help, but not solve problems like this.

You are correct. Whatever is made by trade can be defeated by trade. The next thing invented after locks were lock pics. And so it has gone throughout human history. Locks are defeated by lock pics. Codes are defeated by code breakers. Electronic security devices are defeated by other electronic devices. It will only be a matter of time before someone comes up with a way to defeat EOBRs if it has not already happened.

The MN thing was beyond the hours and logs. The "check list" was a major part of the problem. It was all about revenue. Just as most of the new regs coming down are to a large degree. Little science in the new HOS proposal.

I don't think it was about revenue but about the arrogance of the MN State Patrol officer(s) who originated and promoted the checklist. I believe they view truckers as a low class social element that is not to be trusted. The officers devised a system that thinly disguised their disdain for truckers and their eagerness to control and humiliate those who live and work on the road.

The checklist itself reveals the bias of a self-righteous clean freak who abused his authority to take things far beyond where they should have been allowed to go. Thank goodness that OOIDA saw fit to rise in opposition and push back in a way that individual drivers did not.

 

[ATeam]

The State will most likly appeal some part of the Decision.

Diane once served as general counsel to the Minnesota governor. She says that for an appeal to be made, people in the state Attorney General's office must agree to make it. The decision to appeal rests with them. The State Patrol could lobby the governor and others to encourage the AG to appeal the ruling but the AG has final say.

Before spending taxpayer dollars to appeal the ruling, the AG would review it to see if their are grounds. While any rationale can be constructed to support an appeal, and while the Minnesota Court of Appeals would be obligated to hear the case, it won't get far without good grounds.

This is a big case for truckers but in the State Capitol there are dozens of bigger fish to fry, like the state budget shortfall and a new stadium for the Minnesota Vikings so they won't leave town when their lease expires this year.

If you questioned 1,000 elected officals, appointed officials and their staffers at the Capitol, I doubt you would find even 50 who even know about the case. The Capitol is packed with people this time of year. They are racing from meeting to meeting and bending each others' ears every chance they get. The offices, meeting rooms and hallways are loud and abuzz with people talking about hundreds of issues, but few if any of them are talking about this case.

Unless the judge got it really, really wrong, I don't see the AG appealing a ruling that will bring the now documented fact into the mainstream press that the distinguished Minnesota State Patrol is stopping trucks and questioning drivers about their masturbation practices.

Revenue-wise, the state lost nothing in this ruling. If it was revenue through enforcement that they were after, they do not need a fatigue checklist to do it. It would be far easier to simply run a second shift at the Saint Croix River scale (I-94 near Hudson, WI), open other scales more often and deploy more mobile units. They could write many more tickets than they do now and they don't need a questionable fatigue checklist to do it.

 

[greg334]

... Patrol is stopping trucks and questioning drivers about their masturbation practices.

Not picking on Phil but you can actually say that?

Electronic security devices are defeated by other electronic devices. It will only be a matter of time before someone comes up with a way to defeat EOBRs if it has not already happened.

Well it will take time because to happen, the specs for the device seem to be clear and those on the market have been tested to indicate very specific behavior when there is tampering.

The downfall of many of these devices may be the use of not an embedded and tamper proof operating system (Linux or proprietary system) but the stupidity of using Microsoft products.

 

[layoutshooter]

Not picking on Phil but you can actually say that?



Well it will take time because to happen, the specs for the device seem to be clear and those on the market have been tested to indicate very specific behavior when there is tampering.

The downfall of many of these devices may be the use of not an embedded and tamper proof operating system (Linux or proprietary system) but the stupidity of using Microsoft products.

ANY computer based system, Microsoft, Linux or proprietary, can be hacked. Nothing is fool proof. Some are easier than others. Sooner or later, if it has not happened already, these things will be beat.

 

[layoutshooter]

Not picking on Phil but you can actually say that?



Well it will take time because to happen, the specs for the device seem to be clear and those on the market have been tested to indicate very specific behavior when there is tampering.

The downfall of many of these devices may be the use of not an embedded and tamper proof operating system (Linux or proprietary system) but the stupidity of using Microsoft products.

ANY computer based system, Microsoft, Linux or proprietary, can be hacked. Nothing is fool proof. Some are easier than others. Sooner or later, if it has not happened already, these things will be beat.

 

[greg334]

That is true Layout, but you have to understand that to cheat, it will take two different parts of the equation - the driver/owner and the carrier.

Hacking doesn't mean that it will help the driver, and for that matter what will be gained by it?

If there is tampering that can be proved, it is more or less something that can be considered a crime.

 

[layoutshooter]

That is true Layout, but you have to understand that to cheat, it will take two different parts of the equation - the driver/owner and the carrier.

Hacking doesn't mean that it will help the driver, and for that matter what will be gained by it?

If there is tampering that can be proved, it is more or less something that can be considered a crime.

People cheat on everything. Stretching hours would be a reason. Crime? So is double logging and that has not stopped anyone. There will be drivers (most likely already running illegal) who will want to run 20 hours, companies that will want this or that. It will happen if it is not already.

 

[greg334]

Layout, I would suggest you read the specifications and understand what it needed to make it work. Cheating is hard to do when many of them will not function if messed
with.

But back no topic, I think this will have a good effect on the sleep apenia issue I brought up.

 

[layoutshooter]

Layout, I would suggest you read the specifications and understand what it needed to make it work. Cheating is hard to do when many of them will not function if messed
with.

But back no topic, I think this will have a good effect on the sleep apenia issue I brought up.

Cheating is difficult for sure, but I have seen far more difficult computer based systems broken on a regular basis.

Any who, I hope a lot of things change for the better. The sleep apenia issue being one.

I am expecting another "down side" to these "Electric Nanny" toys that will cost us money out of our pockets. I track my fuel mileage all the time. Now our carriers watch it. Look for a way to base FSC on what the EOBR is reporting. More of a "sliding scale" based on what they see the trucks getting real time.

Just a thought.

 

[moose]

I am expecting another "down side" to these "Electric Nanny" toys that will cost us money out of our pockets. I track my fuel mileage all the time. Now our carriers watch it. Look for a way to base FSC on what the EOBR is reporting. More of a "sliding scale" based on what they see the trucks getting real time.

Just a thought.

Carriers ? Carriers ???? ,why stop there ?
i was saying that for years, the GOV. will tell you how many mil per gal you supposed to get ,and will penalized you if you won't.

BTW ,it called ' DATA mining ' ,and it'll make a monkey out of us.

(i'm really starting to be jealous at your age...).