Joke Behar and The View

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Whether or not if it really important, there seems to be more to these the three different things that are intertwined into the incident.

First a few, even on Fox pointed out that the 70% is a poll number which not even 1% of the population was polled.

Second is the ignorance of this country is rather amazing.

Third, who watches either the View or O'rielly to begin with - all of them are hasbeens and idiots.
 

fortwayne

Not a Member
First, plenty watch Bill O..........he has the highest rated news/talk show on cable TV. Check the facts. I don't like him myself even though I am a conservative, but he is right. I don't want it built, I think it is wrong, and really don't care if I upset a bunch of liberal wanks puking up political correctness for the sure sake of looking all moral right.
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
Second is the ignorance of this country is rather amazing.

Greg, your attitude toward those of us that disagree with your stance on this subject is wearing thin. Over and over you use derogatory names to define your opposition.....quite honestly, I'm offended that you do this. I'm not ignorant OR stupid....I just don't agree with you and a large part of the population of this country doesn't either.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The ignorance of the country really is amazing, though. I mean, most Americans don't even have a clue why Al Qaeda and the other Muslim extremists want to kill us.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Diva,
First I want to make sure you know I was not talking about you, it is about the entire country's attitude and it seems to be true.

The country is getting to be an ignorant bunch of cry babies and many who are screaming the loudest don't fathom the resilience of our culture or our country. NO one seems to want to put effort into finding out what is the truth and what are lies but just want to be led and told what to believe.

We are not Europe, we are not the Middle East, we are not Asia but we are our own country with our own culture. No one group or religion will change that unless most of the population is in the ground, just like no one group or religion is in charge of the country to begin with.

If the issue is actually the Mosque, it would be simple but it is not the issue. It is about the religion, it is about the perception what the religion stands for without knowledge of the religion. It is has been said it is all about what the Mosque stands for within the religion and only that but look at who is saying it. Even the name of it has been twisted to make it out as a victory trophy, which the original one in Spain was a symbol of defeat, not victory for the religion.

A lot of the stuff I have read in the past 5 months reads right out of some propaganda in the 1920's or in the 50's - even right here in this forum. Much of what is going on is orchestrated to fan the flames of hate and it seems unless we say enough, it will get out of hand.

We should look around and see there are bigger and more important things to worry about, like our border, like the take over of our rights by the courts and other things but we fail as a country to put the right focus on keeping the media in check and this very subject of this thread is proof that we still need to grow up as a country.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The ignorance of the country really is amazing, though. I mean, most Americans don't even have a clue why Al Qaeda and the other Muslim extremists want to kill us.
Spot on - but at what point does it really matter? Consider that muslim radicals want to kill the editors of the Danish paper that published the now-infamous cartoons that in the eyes of the radicals were blasphemous to Allah. The rest of the world considered the cartoons insignificant, especially considering the intent which was not malicious. The islamo-fascists look for any handy excuse to be offended and start issuing fatwas. When they start chanting "death to America" we have to be ready to defend ourselves.
We should look around and see there are bigger and more important things to worry about, like our border, like the take over of our rights by the courts and other things but we fail as a country to put the right focus on keeping the media in check and this very subject of this thread is proof that we still need to grow up as a country.
Agreed that the border concerns become more important with every passing day. The American people need to elect representatives that will prioritize this instead of turning a blind eye to the invasion from Mexico. However, growing up as a country doesn't necessarily mean tolerating the rather obvious effort by liberal factions to balkanize our country. Maybe growing up means that we should return to the standards we once demanded from immigrants that applied for US citizenship - that they learn the English language and commit to assimilating into our American culture. We are justified in demanding that they come here to be Americans, not just Mexicans or Iranians or Germans in exile that sponge off our freedoms and entitlement programs not available in their native countries. Being "grown up" doesn't mean we have to tolerate and be sympathetic to cultures that are diametrically opposed to our constitution and our fundamental ways of life. Maybe these immigrants need to grow up and adapt to the culture of the country in which they have chosen to live.
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
The ignorance of the country really is amazing, though. I mean, most Americans don't even have a clue why Al Qaeda and the other Muslim extremists want to kill us.

But you see, this sounds as though you're trying to "make excuses" for them. I cannot recite the whys....I have read and heard but I honestly don't care.....why should I? I personally didn't do anything to them, nor did anyone that I know and love do anything but all the same, they'd take my head off in a heartbeat, just as they would yours. Which brings me to another thought......why are we supposed to be tolerant and understanding that they're "not all the same" when they're the ones lumping us all together to hate?? Why would you defend them to me when I doubt that all "peaceful Muslims" would defend me to the radicals?

Just more food for thought.....:p
 

bobwg

Expert Expediter
Just because people like me dont want the mosque built on ground zero does not mean we hate muslims or the religion but it does mean we dont want the terrorists to be able to claim victory and as far as freedom of religion I want some one to show me the part of the constitution that says they have a right to build any where they want, it says freedon of religion not freedom to build any thing they want any where they want. As for O Rielly I watch his show some times I dont agree with all his views but I watch and so do alot of people as for us being stupid no more than you are, just my 2 cents oh weak dollar value make that 1/2 a cent :D
 
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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
But you see, this sounds as though you're trying to "make excuses" for them. I cannot recite the whys....I have read and heard but I honestly don't care.....why should I? I personally didn't do anything to them, nor did anyone that I know and love do anything but all the same, they'd take my head off in a heartbeat, just as they would yours. Which brings me to another thought......why are we supposed to be tolerant and understanding that they're "not all the same" when they're the ones lumping us all together to hate??

No doubt Bin Laden & his followers are exactly as you depict, but we are better than that - aren't we?

Why would you defend them to me when I doubt that all "peaceful Muslims" would defend me to the radicals?
Even if your doubt is justified [and I don't believe it is], again: because we are [or must try to be] better than that. We do what we know is right simply because we know it to be right.

Just more food for thought.....:p

Thought is good, I think. ;)
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
But you see, this sounds as though you're trying to "make excuses" for them. I cannot recite the whys....I have read and heard but I honestly don't care.....why should I?
Because as a general rule, people should want to know and understand the motives behind an action, especially if the action in question is an unpleasant or unacceptable one. If the attitude taken is, "They want to kill me," and you don't even care why, then the only resolution left at your disposal is to kill them before they kill us, and then try and figure it all out when its over. That's not really a model of a successful society.

I personally didn't do anything to them, nor did anyone that I know and love do anything but all the same, they'd take my head off in a heartbeat, just as they would yours.
Very true, especially in my case, because I'm the epitome of an infidel.

Which brings me to another thought......why are we supposed to be tolerant and understanding that they're "not all the same" when they're the ones lumping us all together to hate??
Because they're not all the same. The ones lumping us all together are the extremists, and not all Muslims are extremists, yet many people lump the extremists and non-extremists together, just because they're all Muslims. Just like Christians, some are extremists, some aren't. Would it be OK to lump all Christians together in the same extremist-wacko lump? Of course not, and it's not OK to lump all Muslims in the same extremist-wacko lump, either.

Why would you defend them to me when I doubt that all "peaceful Muslims" would defend me to the radicals?
Well, first of all, I don't think that ALL "peaceful Muslims" would defend you to the radicals, either. Some would, but almost certainly not all 100% of them. Many are just as afraid of the radicals as you and I are, probably more so, in fact, where if they speak out against Islam in any way they will be in a world of hurt. They know (unlike Obama, apparently) that you can't sit down and reason with a radical Muslim.

Secondly, make no mistake, I am not defending them at all. I think they're nuts (I also think a lot of Christians are nuts, but that's beside the point). You draw a cartoon depiction of the Prophet and they go absolutely bonkers over it. That's over-the-top crazy. Literally lock-em up, put 'em in a straight jacket, crazy. Or at least slip 'em some Prozac or something. But my point is not to defend them, but to point out that we're not exactly guilt-free and blameless in all this, despite their craziness in response. To put it in overly simplistic terms, you can't just walk up to someone and out of the blue haul off and hit them with a baseball bat, and then be outraged when they stand up and, being crazy like they are, strike back by shooting you with a gun, claiming that they're crazy for shooting you in the first place. But that's pretty much what's going on here.

Just more food for thought.....:p
Exactly.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
...and as far as freedom of religion I want some one to show me the part of the constitution that says they have a right to build any where they want, it says freedon of religion not freedom to build any thing they want any where they want.

Actually, it doesn't even say "freedom of religion". It says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
To make no law respecting an establishment of religion means that Congress cannot make a law that establishes an official "state" religion, nor can it respect any establishment of favoring one religion or another. Meaning, the State and any religion, regardless of what it is, must remain separate entities.

The part of or prohibiting the free exercise thereof means that the government cannot prohibit in any way the manner in which people want to practice their religion. People must be allowed to exercise their religion freely, unencumbered and without restriction. They can do it any time and any place they wish, which means they really and truly can build anything they want, anywhere they want (as long as they have legal rights to the property, of course, and anything they build is within the permits and building codes). The community or even an individual can use any legal means to prevent that from happening, but the State certainly cannot get involved in it, because the State and any religion, regardless of what it is, must remain separate.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Just because people like me dont want the mosque built on ground zero does not mean we hate muslims or the religion but it does mean we dont want the terrorists to be able to claim victory
Yet you fail to understand that preventing and prohibiting the mosque to be built (and it isn't "on" or even "at" Ground Zero ..... just near it) is exactly the very thing that will allow the terrorists to claim victory ....

Their (the terrorists) victory will come not from what they themselves are able to do - or what any peaceful, law-abiding Muslim might do in practicing their faith - their victory will be accomplished by what they are able to get us to do - not to them, but to ourselves.

To the degree that they are able to get us to change how we act - particularly with respect to upholding the rights and freedoms that we have always claimed are the very thing that define who we are, and are at the core of our essence, as a people ...... well, to that degree they will have achieved success .....

It is an utterly diabolical plan ... in essence, being forced to cut your throat (in a figurative sense) ..... by causing us to become the antithesis of the ideals we truly believe in, and hold most dear .....

Your attitudes and actions (as well as every other citizen) - and not any armed conflict in some foreign land - will define whether they have won.

Personally, I'd prefer to deny them any victory instead.

and as far as freedom of religion I want some one to show me the part of the constitution that says they have a right to build any where they want, it says freedon of religion not freedom to build any thing they want any where they want.
Your understanding of what actually constitutes freedom is somewhat lacking .....

The Constitution doesn't lay out in excruciating detail every little thing that an individual citizen may, or may not, do as a consequence of being free - what it does do, is establish controls and limits on what government may do, in terms of interfering with that freedom.

In otherwords, freedom isn't defined as some finite (but seemingly endless) list of what a citizen may do, feel, or think - and anyone who understands the true nature of freedom will immediately understand why: at the point where one attempts to define it (freedom) in such a manner, it immediately becomes something less than freedom ......

The Founding Fathers understood this very clearly - which is why they created and fashioned the Constitution in the manner that they did: as a document which proscribed (limited) the powers of government to very great degree, in terms of interfering with the freedom of it's citizens .... (my oh my ..... how far have we fallen ..... :rolleyes:)

As for O Reilly, I watch his show some times - I dont agree with all his views - but I watch and so do alot of people
Seems that "the lemming response" is becoming rather commonplace around here lately ......

In terms of evaluating my own conduct and any personal course of action, I could give a flip what anyone else says or does .... just ain't relevant.

In the end, I have to answer to my own conscience .... and not to the conscience of some retard talking head on the boob tube ...... whether that head be O'Reilly's or Joy Behar's .....
 
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witness23

Veteran Expediter
The reason they walked off the set wasn't because of the 70% poll number from CNN that O'reilly cited, in which Joy Behar(the redhead, I think that's Joy) during the altercation asked for proof of. It was becauase O'reilly said, "Muslims killed us on 911"

And the reason the community center came up in conversation was because O'reilly was trying to explain why there is such a wide divide between the President and the country.

O'reilly did what he does best, polarize people and the women were wrong for walking off the set instead of sitting there and having an adult conversation about politics. What do you expect from a blow hard and a gaggle of women?

It's kind of funny though. O'reilly lately has been the voice of reason around Fox for some time now and Beck has been in the lime light if you will with his apocolytic rhetoric. I think maybe our Australian born media magnate, Rupert Murdoch had a little sit down with Mr. O'reilly about getting back on track. Not to mention he has a book out and will do anything to get exposure.

For the record, I watch O'reilly so I am not saying these things without knowledge of what his show is all about.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The part of or prohibiting the free exercise thereof means that the government cannot prohibit in any way the manner in which people want to practice their religion.

So you are saying that when they prohibit people from praying 5 feet from the door of an abortion mill they are in fact in violation after all.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Oh, he did apologize for his comment, and that I give him kudos for. I would give him credit for going on the View in the first place, but he was only doing that to promote his book.

Oh yeah.....I really like the title of the thread, "Joke Behar and the View". I get it, instead of "Joy" Behar you changed it to "Joke" Behar, rotflmao!
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
What I thought was more offensive than his Islam comment was when he told Ms. Behar, "listen to me because you will learn". What an arrogant prick and bully this man is.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Behar should listen to O'Reilly and would learn if she did and certainly if Obama was on the show and said the same thing to E.H. the left would be saying E.H. should listen to Obama. O'Reilly is smarter than Obama and Behar is dumber than E.H. so it's even more appropriate in this case.
 
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