It's just tissue

[LDB]

Yes, maybe it would. I realize it's the in thing to place blame and responsibility everywhere except with the woman but if birth control is important wouldn't it be even more the responsibility of the patient to ask the doctor how will this affect my medicines A, B, and C? rather than the doctor to ask the patient do you take medicines A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I,, J, K, L, M, N, O, or and of 73 others as there could be a conflict?

 

[xiggi]

I don't think I implied it's one of the main reasons, just that it happens. Because some seem to think women use abortion as a form of contraception, which doesn't seem even remotely reasonable to me. Sure, you can find the odd moron who claims to do it, but that's not representative of the women who choose to terminate a pregnancy.
One consequence many women are not made aware of: some antibiotics can negate the contraceptive effect of birth control pills. I've never, ever, had a doctor mention that, when prescribing antibiotics. So any resulting pregnancy would be my own fault?

Lol my college age daughter had to take anti biotics a few months ago. I told her, you probably don't want to hear this from your dad but those things might make your pill not be affective for a while.

 

[Turtle]

When a pregnancy is the result of a failure of contraceptives, is that really a "consequence" that a woman should accept?

Yes, of course. Without question. Whenever you have sex there is a risk of getting pregnant. Contraceptives do not eliminate that risk, they merely reduce the risk. The only way to reduce the risk to zero is, well, you know, abstinence. But if you are not willing to abstain, then you must be willing to accept the consequences.

But as xiggi notes, failed contraceptives are hardly the primary reason for abortions. Failing to use contraceptives at all is a far more common reason for an unwanted pregnancy. Failed contraceptives is literally the exception to the rule. Pregnancies resulting from failed contraceptives are right up there at the same level as women who use abortion as a form of birth control. It happens, but not very often.

Nobody said anything about "forthright, gracious, and magnanimous" [?!] but reasonable is a good goal.

You were elevating things to the point where I could see the American flag waiving in the background and could hear "Mine eyes have seen the glory..." getting louder and louder.

It doesn't seem reasonable to require a woman to go through with a pregnancy and birth, then choose to give up her child for adoption or spend the rest of her life mothering, because her chosen birth control failed.

I'm not saying she should be forced to carry the baby to term, regardless of why she got pregnant. I'm just saying let's not pretend that aborting an unwanted pregnancy is somehow the responsibile thing to do, because in the overwhelming majority of cases getting an abortion is avoiding responsibility, straight up.

 

[jjoerger]

I support a woman's right to choose. And I am very thankful that my step daughter chose to walk out the back door of the abortion clinic after the sperm donor dropped her off at the front door with a wad of cash and told her to get rid of that thing. Had the sperm donor been given the right to chose my beautiful grand daughter, now adopted daughter, would not have been born.

 

[cheri1122]

Yes, maybe it would. I realize it's the in thing to place blame and responsibility everywhere except with the woman but if birth control is important wouldn't it be even more the responsibility of the patient to ask the doctor how will this affect my medicines A, B, and C? rather than the doctor to ask the patient do you take medicines A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I,, J, K, L, M, N, O, or and of 73 others as there could be a conflict?

You said it: "place the blame and responsibility everywhere except with the women" - what about placing half of it with the men who are equally at fault? We talk about pregnancy as if the woman did it all by herself! Sure, you'll say the men should be responsible too, [but only when someone mentions them], except they aren't, and nobody forces them to be.
Women who use contraceptives don't think of them as 'medicine' - more like daily vitamins, something one takes to remain healthy, rather than to treat a condition. Doctors don't need to ask about other 'medications' [which is good, because they seldom do], they just need to make the information available for those to whom it may or may not apply. A poster in the treatment room would suffice, or a printed list of cautions, such as they hand out for a million other things.

 

[LDB]

I was specifically referencing the drug interaction issues and placing the blame on both the doctor and the woman but primarily on the woman. If she's so cavalier to think of birth control as just another vitamin then she's even more to blame but yes, a good doctor is also going to know from a proper workup she is on the pill and advise her properly. Bottom line though it is her responsibility. Now, the sperm donor and his blame is another topic altogether.

 

[cheri1122]

I was specifically referencing the drug interaction issues and placing the blame on both the doctor and the woman but primarily on the woman. If she's so cavalier to think of birth control as just another vitamin then she's even more to blame but yes, a good doctor is also going to know from a proper workup she is on the pill and advise her properly. Bottom line though it is her responsibility. Now, the sperm donor and his blame is another topic altogether.

"Cavalier"? You have deliberately misrepresented my words. No woman using contraceptives is cavalier about her body, health, or future - that's precisely why she prefers to choose if and when to reproduce.
A "good doctor with a proper workup" is much more than many of us ever get to see, unfortunately. I am certain I saw good doctors who prescribed antibiotics during the years I took birth control pills, but not one of them ever mentioned the possibility of an interaction that could make the 'pill' ineffective. I was lucky - many others were and are not.

 

[cheri1122]

I'm not saying she should be forced to carry the baby to term, regardless of why she got pregnant. I'm just saying let's not pretend that aborting an unwanted pregnancy is somehow the responsibile thing to do, because in the overwhelming majority of cases getting an abortion is avoiding responsibility, straight up.

It's a helluva lot more responsible than doing nothing, allowing the pregnancy to continue, when she knows it will render her incapable of working for at least several months, and possibly cost her whatever employment she currently has, plus the doctor & hospital bills she may not have any way to cover - but she could always go on welfare, eh? Or, she could expect the other parent to support her and the baby, regardless of his opinions [maybe she told him she was on the pill, but she lied, hoping he'd marry her].
Terminating an unwanted pregnancy is often the only responsible choice she can make, once it is a fact.

 

[LDB]

Women who use contraceptives don't think of them as 'medicine' - more like daily vitamins

I didn't misrepresent, I took what was offered in the way it seemed to be offered. And yes, that seems more cavalier than serious. And you apparently didn't see as good doctors as you thought. Then again, I do have an incredibly high standard to measure by. Based on that, my answer again stands.

 

[cheri1122]

I didn't misrepresent, I took what was offered in the way it seemed to be offered. And yes, that seems more cavalier than serious. And you apparently didn't see as good doctors as you thought. Then again, I do have an incredibly high standard to measure by. Based on that, my answer again stands.

YOU referred to contraceptives as 'medicine' - I was clarifying that women don't consider them as medicine, like antibiotics are medicine. They don't think of their daily vitamin as medicine either, but that doesn't mean they don't take it seriously. The fact that they go to a doctor/clinic and undergo some fairly intrusive & embarrassing tests to get a prescription says they're serious about it.
Not only do you have a high standard to measure by, [in doctors], you also had an inside advantage in choosing a good one, when needed. The rest of us have to muddle along without any real way to know a good doc from a bad one, until it's too late.

 

[Turtle]

Every prescription medication comes with information about side effects and drug interactions. No one taking oral contraceptives should ever be shocked, surprised or blind-sided by the fact that Ampicillin, Amoxicillin, Tetracycline, or Rifampin (used to treat tuberculosis) has rendered their contraceptive impotent.

In any case, if you get your prescription antibiotics and oral contraceptives from the same pharmacy, the pharmacist will absolutely know if you are taking anything that would interact. They keep track of that stuff much closer than doctors do.

 

[cheri1122]

Prescriptions come with preprinted info now, but years [a lot of years] ago, they did not. We didn't even get the info on side effects, because it existed only in extremely tiny print on the package insert, which we didn't get, ever. The doc or pharmacist might mention some of the more common ones, but usually, we got nothing in writing. I know I took Ampicillin on at least one occasion while taking the Pill, and never heard a word about any possible conflict.
The mushrooming of information given to patients is a relatively recent thing - time was, we treated like mushrooms when it came to what the Dr ordered.

 

[Turtle]

But women today are, in fact, getting that information, which is the point.

And you may not have been told about any possible conflict when you took Ampicillin because there might not have been one. Ampicillin doesn't automatically in and of itself negate the effectiveness of oral contraceptives, it depends on the dosage of both, and for how long the Ampicillin (or any other antibiotic) is administered.

The doctor may or may not have known of the possibility of an interaction. Doctors are notorious for knowing only the main interactions of the main drugs they prescribe regularly. They don't keep up. But the pharmacist knows. They keep up. Most are really anal about that and will not blindly fill a prescription just because a doctor ordered it. Their license is on the line, and they can lose theirs much easier than a doctor can. Pharmacists are audited regularly, for everything from insurance, clerical errors, filling prescriptions with dangerous interactions, and for giving consultations to patients with first-time prescriptions or for interaction warning details.