Is this an infringement on us and illegals rights?

[skyraider]

Florida is the first state - Hooray for Florida This law went into effect July 1. Anyone applying for welfare in Florida is required to take a drug test at their expense! If they pass the test they're reimbursed !



One down.....49 to go!!!



Florida is the first state - Hooray for Florida. Florida is the first state that is now going to require drug testing for welfare! Some people are crying this is unconstitutional. How is this unconstitutional? It's completely legal that every other working person had to pass a drug test in order to have a J-O-B that supports those on welfare?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

View attachment 2698 Do in Laundry at the J in Laredo.

 

[layoutshooter]

It is about time!!! We should find a way to insure that OUR money is NOT used on drugs, booze, beer, tatoos, so on and so forth. Welfare is there to help people live, the bare minimum. It is charity at the point of a gun. Those whose money was taken by force should at least be able to insure it is ONLY being used for what it is meant for.

 

[CENDYM2009]

They should go one step more.they should have to do random drug test while on welfare.

 

[tbubster]

missouri governer signed bill a few weeks ago.No I myself do not belive this is an infringement on anyones rights.I belive if you need it and you accept the publics help then you should be required to pee in a cup.It is only fair that to recive other peoples tax dollars that have to pee in a cup in order to do the job they have that allows them to pay taxes,that the person reciving the benifits of said taxes pee in a cup also.


In missouri there are safe guards in place to protect children of parents that fail the drug test.The state names a third party to recive the help for the children.Also with missouri if you fail and want to get help again you must go somewhere to get help with your drug problem.

Please note i neither called anyone scum nor lazy in this post.To me the more imporntant question is why are people against this.

 

[layoutshooter]

missouri governer signed bill a few weeks ago.No I myself do not belive this is an infringement on anyones rights.I belive if you need it and you accept the publics help then you should be required to pee in a cup.It is only fair that to recive other peoples tax dollars that have to pee in a cup in order to do the job they have that allows them to pay taxes,that the person reciving the benifits of said taxes pee in a cup also.


In missouri there are safe guards in place to protect children of parents that fail the drug test.The state names a third party to recive the help for the children.Also with missouri if you fail and want to get help again you must go somewhere to get help with your drug problem.

Please note i neither called anyone scum nor lazy in this post.To me the more imporntant question is why are people against this.

Many people who are against this believe that they are entitled to other peoples wages. Many others believe that they are "helping" the poor. Neither is correct.

Welfare, we are going to have it, should be short term. It should require work in return, and, require the person on it to fix what ever is stopping them from being employed to fix it.

Long term welfare SHOULD be only for the extreme cases of mental or physical disabilities.

NOT moving for gainful employment takes one off the roles, for good. NO second bite at the apple.

Adults accept responsibility for themselves. It is time that we remember that part of life. The excuses have to end.

 

[mcavoy33]

They should go one step more.they should have to do random drug test while on welfare.

I agree, this is only going to stop the hardcore junkies from collecting. The habitual users will merely quit to pass the test, then go back to using.

 

[AMonger]

Welfare, we are going to have it, should be short term. It should require work in return, and, require the person on it to fix what ever is stopping them from being employed to fix it.

Long term welfare SHOULD be only for the extreme cases of mental or physical disabilities. .

Public welfare under these conditions is still theft. All welfare must be privatized. Other than that, the conditions you stated are perfect.

 

[greg334]

Hum... let's say I put in 20 years of work, paying my taxes, not cheating like so many while at the same time providing for my family who is the reason why I am working hence paying taxes.

So one day my daugther and her husband lost their jobs. They have kids to feed and do a lot of things to make ends meet but still can't really survive. I provide what help I can, my daughter's inlaws kick in too but it isn't enough so they use public assistance.

They use if not just for money but the one point that many seem to miss - access to other programs that are cost effective and actually help. In order for them to access them, they have to meet a minmual amount of money they get from food stamps and welfare so they do it. Remember I paid into the system through my taxes, and so they have too.

So now in order for them to gain access to the food stamps and the welfare, the requirements have to be lower than what one would expect - kids: yes, in debt: yes and a number of other things.

Now everyone looks again that welfare people are the problem, especially when we only see the tattooed toothless people with 6 kids in tow and another bun in the oven while we don't see our neighbor who we thought was working at some machine design firm or some insurance company who is on welfare because they have no other choice.

But this leads me to another problem, a moral one based on those same points that are being made here. Should I be equally concern about how my tax money is also used by people who collect social security, many who are just the same as those tattooed toothless people with 6 kids in tow but in some cases more of a bother. It isn't that they haven't paid into the system but we all have and it matters that maybe we need to look both of these two programs as just the same thing and with the same problems - we can't really afford any of it.

 

[mcavoy33]

Actually a better idea would be that once a year, all recipients would have to pass a hair follicle test, they are much more reliable.

 

[layoutshooter]

Public welfare under these conditions is still theft. All welfare must be privatized. Other than that, the conditions you stated are perfect.

I agree, charity is a Gift, NOT a right. Extorting money from hard working people just to give it to others is just wrong. It more than theft, in the case of government it is armed robbery.

 

[Poorboy]

Hum... let's say I put in 20 years of work, paying my taxes, not cheating like so many while at the same time providing for my family who is the reason why I am working hence paying taxes.

So one day my daugther and her husband lost their jobs. They have kids to feed and do a lot of things to make ends meet but still can't really survive. I provide what help I can, my daughter's inlaws kick in too but it isn't enough so they use public assistance.

They use if not just for money but the one point that many seem to miss - access to other programs that are cost effective and actually help. In order for them to access them, they have to meet a minmual amount of money they get from food stamps and welfare so they do it. Remember I paid into the system through my taxes, and so they have too.

So now in order for them to gain access to the food stamps and the welfare, the requirements have to be lower than what one would expect - kids: yes, in debt: yes and a number of other things.

Now everyone looks again that welfare people are the problem, especially when we only see the tattooed toothless people with 6 kids in tow and another bun in the oven while we don't see our neighbor who we thought was working at some machine design firm or some insurance company who is on welfare because they have no other choice.

But this leads me to another problem, a moral one based on those same points that are being made here. Should I be equally concern about how my tax money is also used by people who collect social security, many who are just the same as those tattooed toothless people with 6 kids in tow but in some cases more of a bother. It isn't that they haven't paid into the system but we all have and it matters that maybe we need to look both of these two programs as just the same thing and with the same problems - we can't really afford any of it.

Some people are on SS because they are Injured and or sick, Just like welfare. But to end SS is ridicilous because like you said, You worked for it and Paid into it. So what's going to happen to all the people who worked for it and paid into it? They gonna lose it when the time comes to retire? If they want to end SS then pay me back for what I put in, then do whatever they want to, but pay the people back who paid into it and not steal it!

 

[greg334]

Some people are on SS because they are Injured and or sick, Just like welfare.

Removing them out of the equation altogether.

But to end SS is ridicilous because like you said, You worked for it and Paid into it.

Well so is complaining about welfare and the people who get it. BUT to clarify something, I didn't work for IT, I pay taxes into the system, like anything else. I pay school taxes and don't have a direct return of that money because I don't have kids in the public school system. I would love not to pay any school taxes which will cut my entire tax bill by two thirds.

So what's going to happen to all the people who worked for it and paid into it? They gonna lose it when the time comes to retire?

Well let's see ... they are not paying into a great big investment fund, they are paying to support those who are collecting it right now, so yep they may end up losing it because the system can easily implode. What happened to them before Social Security happened to pay them to sit around?

If they want to end SS then pay me back for what I put in, then do whatever they want to, but pay the people back who paid into it and not steal it!

Well you are not entitled to that money, that was decided for you in 1963, so I would guess like any other tax that you paid since when ever, you expecting a return of your money is as likely as the schools returning my money.

I expect not to get it when I retire, I really do and this is because I don't see the fixes that need to happen without the same attitude that you have written, I put into it so I deserve. The same goes for the welfare system, it isn't as easy to get into the system and it isn't easy to get out of it but it also isn't all made up of people that are described here by others.

 

[Poorboy]

Removing them out of the equation altogether.



Well so is complaining about welfare and the people who get it. BUT to clarify something, I didn't work for IT, I pay taxes into the system, like anything else. I pay school taxes and don't have a direct return of that money because I don't have kids in the public school system. I would love not to pay any school taxes which will cut my entire tax bill by two thirds.



Well let's see ... they are not paying into a great big investment fund, they are paying to support those who are collecting it right now, so yep they may end up losing it because the system can easily implode. What happened to them before Social Security happened to pay them to sit around?



Well you are not entitled to that money, that was decided for you in 1963, so I would guess like any other tax that you paid since when ever, you expecting a return of your money is as likely as the schools returning my money.

I expect not to get it when I retire, I really do and this is because I don't see the fixes that need to happen without the same attitude that you have written, I put into it so I deserve. The same goes for the welfare system, it isn't as easy to get into the system and it isn't easy to get out of it but it also isn't all made up of people that are described here by others.

I wasn't referring to welfare, I was referring to SS. I know i'm off topic and I will get back on topic after I send this! I too am paying for public schools and all my kids are out of school and working. I have never asked or received any type of Govt. assistance and refuse to do so, BUT, I am one year away from that magical age where i can start recouping some of the money I paid into SS, even though I will only get about half of what they say should be my monthly SS payment because I am on a different retirement system therefore I get penalized even though I've been paying into SS for around 45 years. Is that Fair to just up and steal it? Nope. Sorry greg, I just can't go for doing away with SS. Maybe if they would stop taking SS out of the younger peoples pay checks and start to phase it out that way, but not for the people who have paid into it.

 

[Turtle]

To me the more imporntant question is why are people against this.

People are against it on slippery-slope Constitutional issues. Illegal Search and Seizure, Right the Privacy. Blanket drug testing when safety isn't the primary overriding factor has been rules illegal by the Supreme Court, who also overturned nearly identical Michigan laws regarding drug testing and welfare.

And, first it's drugs, then what's next?

Then there's also the feel-good aspect of this where unintended consequences haven't been thought through (like the feel-good law that Clinton signed to prevent people with spousal abuse convictions from owning a gun, which immediately put a snotload of police officers out of work - whoops, didn't really think that one through).

 

[AMonger]

I wasn't referring to welfare, I was referring to SS... I am one year away from that magical age where i can start recouping some of the money I paid into SS, even though I will only get about half of what they say should be my monthly SS payment because I am on a different retirement system therefore I get penalized even though I've been paying into SS for around 45 years. Is that Fair to just up and steal it? Nope. Sorry greg, I just can't go for doing away with SS. Maybe if they would stop taking SS out of the younger peoples pay checks and start to phase it out that way, but not for the people who have paid into it.

The money stolen from you in the Ponzi Scheme called social security is gone. Sorry. That you were mugged doesn't entitle you to mug the next guy, even if someone lied to you and told you you could.

Taking social security is theft, regardless of how much you had stolen from you in the past.

 

[Poorboy]

The money stolen from you in the Ponzi Scheme called social security is gone. Sorry. That you were mugged doesn't entitle you to mug the next guy, even if someone lied to you and told you you could.

Taking social security is theft, regardless of how much you had stolen from you in the past.

Mugged? Lol, But I don't see where you think that I am mugging the next guy though. I just want what I paid into this Ponzi Scheme and be left alone period. This is what you get when the Govt. steps in saying that they know what's best for people and they want to take care of you! Like I said earlier, If they want to do away with SS which includes SSI then quit stealing money from the younger generation and then phase it out, But don't steal it from the people who already paid into it.

 

[layoutshooter]

People on welfare are using other people's money. Those who earn that money have a right to know how their wages are being used. If a person on welfare is using that money for things that are NOT needed to maintain life, then they should lose the funding.

This is why I am opposed to government's playing Robin Hood. I want to choose what charities I provide funding for. I will contribute to those as I can AFFORD to do so. IF I choose not too, that is my CHOICE. That is freedom, what we have now is not. My tax burden is rapidly getting to the point where it is going to interfere with my ability to provide for my own responsibilities.

 

[greg334]

I wasn't referring to welfare, I was referring to SS. I know i'm off topic and I will get back on topic after I send this!

Well Actually I was too. I don't see this as an off topic issue because it is just the same - an entitlement that is used to pay people not to work.

I too am paying for public schools and all my kids are out of school and working.

Well I haven't and I am offended by the idea that I have to pay for someone else's kid going to school on my dime, the same as many are offended by the use of tax money that they and 185 million people pay going into the welfare system.

I have never asked or received any type of Govt. assistance and refuse to do so, BUT, I am one year away from that magical age where i can start recouping some of the money I paid into SS, even though I will only get about half of what they say should be my monthly SS payment because I am on a different retirement system therefore I get penalized even though I've been paying into SS for around 45 years.

BUT see the entire point of my post is simple - you are not entitled to a single dime of that money and to think you are, you are part of the same problem we have with almost this entire country - we don't give a crap about anyone else but themselves and how dare someone take from them.

Is that Fair to just up and steal it? Nope. Sorry greg, I just can't go for doing away with SS. Maybe if they would stop taking SS out of the younger peoples pay checks and start to phase it out that way, but not for the people who have paid into it.

Steal what?

No one makes you work, no one tells you that you can't move to say Canada or Mexico so yep many regard it as stealing. The system isn't fair, so if we want to change it ... actually we need to change it, we all have to be on the same page and work towards changing it - not crying about 'i put into it, so i deserve' as the aarp generation has done for so long.

The money stolen from you in the Ponzi Scheme called social security is gone. Sorry. That you were mugged doesn't entitle you to mug the next guy, even if someone lied to you and told you you could.

Even though this is a very good and simple point, many do not want to come to grips with the collapse of the system where there won't be a dime for it.

IF we get a balanced budget amendment, or anything like that, these entitlement programs have to be on the list of balancing which means they can not be a hidden problem any more and a solution has to be formed and used to save it.

People on welfare are using other people's money. Those who earn that money have a right to know how their wages are being used. If a person on welfare is using that money for things that are NOT needed to maintain life, then they should lose the funding.

So you support Social Security too with that position?

It is the same thing, using other people's money to fund their monthly check.

I should also add that if someone can afford not to take Social Security, they shouldn't be on it - maybe thats unpatriotic.

Those are not wages, get rid of that idea, this is not the 19th century. Those are taxes which we all pay in one form of another.

This is why I am opposed to government's playing Robin Hood. I want to choose what charities I provide funding for. I will contribute to those as I can AFFORD to do so. IF I choose not too, that is my CHOICE. That is freedom, what we have now is not. My tax burden is rapidly getting to the point where it is going to interfere with my ability to provide for my own responsibilities.

Sorry if you feel that way so become more politically active and stop worrying about birds, swamps and the state. People first, birds second.

See the choice is the problem, like that new outfit for hunting buy it instead of giving to a family who has hit rock bottom, bad choice. Give to a charity that helps screw with property rights but don't buy a weeks worth of food for a family who can't get food stamps.

You want to lessen the burden of taxes, then start with not taking a social security check so the money is not taken from someone else, and make sure others do that too.

Stop thinking about choice, don't think the choice is the freedom when it isn't - either you pay now with your labor in doing something for the community or you pay later.

You know this is also not off topic but in another thread there is a discussion about selective service and it is a great idea that I think Turtle posted - everyone give 2 years of service to the country with NO exceptions (I added the last part). Maybe this is what we really need, it seems to work in other countries.

 

[Poorboy]

Well Actually I was too. I don't see this as an off topic issue because it is just the same - an entitlement that is used to pay people not to work.



Well I haven't and I am offended by the idea that I have to pay for someone else's kid going to school on my dime, the same as many are offended by the use of tax money that they and 185 million people pay going into the welfare system.



BUT see the entire point of my post is simple - you are not entitled to a single dime of that money and to think you are, you are part of the same problem we have with almost this entire country - we don't give a crap about anyone else but themselves and how dare someone take from them.



Steal what?

No one makes you work, no one tells you that you can't move to say Canada or Mexico so yep many regard it as stealing. The system isn't fair, so if we want to change it ... actually we need to change it, we all have to be on the same page and work towards changing it - not crying about 'i put into it, so i deserve' as the aarp generation has done for so long.



Even though this is a very good and simple point, many do not want to come to grips with the collapse of the system where there won't be a dime for it.

IF we get a balanced budget amendment, or anything like that, these entitlement programs have to be on the list of balancing which means they can not be a hidden problem any more and a solution has to be formed and used to save it.



So you support Social Security too with that position?

It is the same thing, using other people's money to fund their monthly check.

I should also add that if someone can afford not to take Social Security, they shouldn't be on it - maybe thats unpatriotic.

Those are not wages, get rid of that idea, this is not the 19th century. Those are taxes which we all pay in one form of another.



Sorry if you feel that way so become more politically active and stop worrying about birds, swamps and the state. People first, birds second.

See the choice is the problem, like that new outfit for hunting buy it instead of giving to a family who has hit rock bottom, bad choice. Give to a charity that helps screw with property rights but don't buy a weeks worth of food for a family who can't get food stamps.

You want to lessen the burden of taxes, then start with not taking a social security check so the money is not taken from someone else, and make sure others do that too.

Stop thinking about choice, don't think the choice is the freedom when it isn't - either you pay now with your labor in doing something for the community or you pay later.

You know this is also not off topic but in another thread there is a discussion about selective service and it is a great idea that I think Turtle posted - everyone give 2 years of service to the country with NO exceptions (I added the last part). Maybe this is what we really need, it seems to work in other countries.

Crying?? Oh but I don't see it as Crying or as an entitlement, I see it as that the Govt. promised that the money that I pay into SS will be paid back to me "in my Old Man years" and they should keep that promise. I and millions of others paid it for many years and should hold the Govt. responsible for stealing it! The Govt. Borrowed (Stole it) and now are unable to pay it back into the system so now they, meaning Govt. want to reform it. What they should do with SS as well as welfare is to somehow end the corruption internally and the people who are scamming the system who just don't want and refuse to work remove them. That would save quite a bit of money and put the savings back into SS to re-pay the people for those Govt. loans that they stole from SS. After all, It's mine and a whole lot of other peoples money that the Govt. Squandered away with their irresponsible spending.

 

[greg334]

Crying?? Oh but I don't see it as Crying or as an entitlement, I see it as that the Govt. promised that the money that I pay into SS will be paid back to me "in my Old Man years" and they should keep that promise.

Yes crying, it may not be you but look at how people react to the idea of changing something with social security and the crying they do.

I don't see any promise. I wasn't handed a form or a flyer saying "uncle sam will take care of you when you get too old to work" however I do see that the government has an obligation to protect the country by closing off the border and that they also made a promise to make our streets safe and other things, which are really more important than any promise they allegedly make about taxes.

I and millions of others paid it for many years and should hold the Govt. responsible for stealing it! The Govt. Borrowed (Stole it) and now are unable to pay it back into the system so now they, meaning Govt. want to reform it.

All true, but then go argue with the supreme court who said you are not entitled to the money you put in or the benefits derived from that money. They are clear about it and the issue has not been revisited. The same goes for the fact that you can be rejected by SS for any benefits.

So the system was borrowed from? What can I do about it? It isn't like there is a great big bank account that holds that money, it just doesn't work that way and if you want to blame anyone, blame those who created Medicare and other retirement centric programs - they set the system up to fail and it almost did within a few years of its creation.

What they should do with SS as well as welfare is to somehow end the corruption internally and the people who are scamming the system who just don't want and refuse to work remove them. That would save quite a bit of money and put the savings back into SS to re-pay the people for those Govt. loans that they stole from SS.

Well taking the last part first, the government can't steal from themselves, they reallocated the funds and that money is gone, fin. What they need to do is to go directly to an asset based adjudication system for any social program, meaning that in order for you to get social security, you need to either prove you need it to "supplement" your cost of living or not get it. Remove the millions off the roles who do not need the money in the first place, those millionaire who can afford to get by with their $4000 a month income.

After that is done, they should put an end date based on birth year, 1964 is a good place to start and than allow those born that year and after to take money and invest it without paying a dime in taxes or having any restrictions to how they can spend that money. They would continue to pay into the SS system but no benefits. Once the last baby boomer dies, end the program.

BUT no matter what, there are going to be people who say "I want it back" and again this is the problem they can't see the big picture, the purpose of the program or the fact that even IF no one touched a dime of the money to pay for anything outside the SS system, it would still be an insolvent program just the same.

After all, It's mine and a whole lot of other peoples money that the Govt. Squandered away with their irresponsible spending.

After all it isn't yours, you are not entitled to that money and that is because the Supreme Court said so.