Is The Future Ethanol?

paullud · Jul 13, 2011

It seems ethanol may be the fuel of the future but as pointed out in this article there are some hurdles to overcome. I think that is why we see higher oil prices today, it is less a fear of supply and demand and more of a fear of "I can't make money off of oil anymore".

http://cartalk.com/blogs/jim-motavalli/?p=1007

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purgoose10 · Jul 13, 2011

Just make sure you put additive in your gas to keep the moisture out. Moisture is the biggest problem of corn ethanol.
What you don't hear now is that they are making a way to use 20% ethynol instead of 10%. That was one of the deals when they got rid of the money. So be watching for that by labor day. Almost making it worth while to go back to diesel engines.
So.Carolina is now working on 20% ethanol.

OntarioVanMan · Jul 13, 2011

This goes

Automakers warn ethanol proposal may void warranties | Wheels.ca

with that....

xiggi · Jul 13, 2011

It might be a fuel of tomorrow but it sure isn't a fuel of today the way we do it in the US. They need to stop the subsidies now and quit wasting our money.

paullud · Jul 13, 2011

xiggi said:
It might be a fuel of tomorrow but it sure isn't a fuel of today the way we do it in the US. They need to stop the subsidies now and quit wasting our money.

I would think it would be better to remove a large part or all of the taxes from ethanol, then people will want ethanol vehicles, more farmers will start to grow switch grass and we can stop paying farms subsidies to not grow things. All the demand for the new fuel would create jobs installing pumps and tanks as well as technology based jobs to improve efficiency and mechanical aspects of the vehicles.

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OntarioVanMan · Jul 13, 2011

with corn at or around 6.50 a bushel down from last months over 7 bucks...wait to see how much that loaf of bread or steak is going to cost ya....

xiggi · Jul 13, 2011

paullud said:
I would think it would be better to remove a large part or all of the taxes from ethanol, then people will want ethanol vehicles, more farmers will start to grow switch grass and we can stop paying farms subsidies to not grow things. All the demand for the new fuel would create jobs installing pumps and tanks as well as technology based jobs to improve efficiency and mechanical aspects of the vehicles.

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All fuel sources should compete on an even playing field. Let the market decide who wins and who loses.

Brisco · Jul 13, 2011

Watching Nascar on the weekends, there is a lot of talk about Ethanol Based Gasoline.

Crew Chiefs are having Hell trying to figure out fuel stops during green flag pit stops. Sonocos ethanol based gasoline (they use the same fuel as we do in the general public) is not getting the same MPG's as it was before ethanol was formulated, thus causing the drivers to both stop at different intervals as they have in the past, and is causing drivers to run out of fuel close to the ends of the races. We've had what, 5-6 races this year already where the leading cars were running out of fuel with 1, 2, and 3 laps to go???

Not that I'm a rednecky Nascar follower, I just like it. It's just that I've been noticing the lower miles per gallon these cars have been getting this season.

OntarioVanMan · Jul 13, 2011

Brisco said:
Watching Nascar on the weekends, there is a lot of talk about Ethanol Based Gasoline.

Crew Chiefs are having Hell trying to figure out fuel stops during green flag pit stops. Sonocos ethanol based gasoline (they use the same fuel as we do in the general public) is not getting the same MPG's as it was before ethanol was formulated, thus causing the drivers to both stop at different intervals as they have in the past, and is causing drivers to run out of fuel close to the ends of the races. We've had what, 5-6 races this year already where the leading cars were running out of fuel with 1, 2, and 3 laps to go???

Not that I'm a rednecky Nascar follower, I just like it. It's just that I've been noticing the lower miles per gallon these cars have been getting this season.

Common knowledge that biodiesel and ethenol doesn't get the MPGs on most vehicles...

hard to believe those crews took a real race to know that...

paullud · Jul 13, 2011

xiggi said:
All fuel sources should compete on an even playing field. Let the market decide who wins and who loses.

But,but,but it's for the common good.

When we have something like oil that runs our country and we have started wars over it, no I don't think the current war was over oil but the first Gulf War was, we need to look at it as an investment for the country to limit the power that OPEC has over us.

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OntarioVanMan · Jul 13, 2011

paullud said:
But,but,but it's for the common good.

When we have something like oil that runs our country and we have started wars over it, no I don't think the current war was over oil but the first Gulf War was, we need to look at it as an investment for the country to limit the power that OPEC has over us.

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well if we drilled here we could limit that power...maybe even get rid of them...

Jack_Berry · Jul 13, 2011

Brisco said:
Watching Nascar on the weekends, there is a lot of talk about Ethanol Based Gasoline.

Crew Chiefs are having Hell trying to figure out fuel stops during green flag pit stops. Sonocos ethanol based gasoline (they use the same fuel as we do in the general public) is not getting the same MPG's as it was before ethanol was formulated, thus causing the drivers to both stop at different intervals as they have in the past, and is causing drivers to run out of fuel close to the ends of the races. We've had what, 5-6 races this year already where the leading cars were running out of fuel with 1, 2, and 3 laps to go???

Not that I'm a rednecky Nascar follower, I just like it. It's just that I've been noticing the lower miles per gallon these cars have been getting this season.

yep. i made biodiesel before expediting. mileage went done from 25 to 21 mpg on the 1983 300td. bio-d has less btu per gallon than pump diesel so the mileage goes down. same i guess for corn gas.

the subsidies need to be there to offset the lowered mileage. the .20 cpg just about covers the difference in mpg. the reason i got out was the price of methanol which was needed to strip the used fish oil of its chemical composition to make diesel fuel.

biodiesel is a good extender in a 10-20% ratio. beyond that too much mileage is lost. interestingly when we are produ
cing so much product there is less use by new vehicles. 5-6 yrs ago case corp told farmers more than 5% biodiesel use would void their warranties. the crd cars from vw, mb and bmw all state not to use more than 5%.

sugar based ethanol was top fuel in brazil since the 1979 oil embargo, brazil got its alternative fuel act together. here everyone wants a piece of the action or tying it up to keep it from happening. btw brazil is also our biggest export customer for biodiesel.

paullud · Jul 13, 2011

OntarioVanMan said:
well if we drilled here we could limit that power...maybe even get rid of them...

Agreed I think we should be drilling here until we get the next fuel source figured out.

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chefdennis · Jul 13, 2011

yeap Brazil uses sugar cane which they have more then needed for sugar production (unlike the U.S. and corn) to make their ethanol and they export it..but not to the U.S....for the same reason that U.S ethanol refiners don't use switchgrasss..( iit is a weed and can grow anywhere)...our Fed Gov won't let them....

Oh. we could also impport and distribute Brazillian ethanol cheaper then our own Corn based ethanol....

copdsux · Jul 14, 2011

OntarioVanMan said:
with corn at or around 6.50 a bushel down from last months over 7 bucks...wait to see how much that loaf of bread or steak is going to cost ya....

To me, the cost increases, for corn based products, plus lower fuel mileage, would seem to make ethanol a bad choice.

OntarioVanMan · Jul 14, 2011

copdsux said:
To me, the cost increases, for corn based products, plus lower fuel mileage, would seem to make ethanol a bad choice.

Ranchers/feedlots use corn as a fattner just before auction...look at the price of beef....same as pork....Bread...over 3 bucks a loaf..and climbing...

and to gamble the house away on an agriculture product has risks.....we've lost 10% of the corn from the Missouri flooding...and it could get worse...

Dakota · Jul 14, 2011

Indiana will save you, we have plenty of corn

OntarioVanMan · Jul 14, 2011

Dakota said:
Indiana will save you, we have plenty of corn

Yours is spoken for....sold to the Russians...

Jack_Berry · Jul 14, 2011

last year or maybe the year before, don't remember, the farmers in america over planted corn for ethanol to the tune of 5-6 million acres. this was to prevent shortages in the food/feed corn supply.

paullud · Jul 14, 2011

Jack_Berry said:
last year or maybe the year before, don't remember, the farmers in america over planted corn for ethanol to the tune of 5-6 million acres. this was to prevent shortages in the food/feed corn supply.

We are definitely capable of producing the corn or other products for the different types of ethanol, now we need people that will stop handing over millions of dollars to farmers to not grow things.

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