It seems to me that the promotion of the idea of providing equipment is the same as "owning a buisness" seems a bit shaky at best.It's kinda like saying "Elizabeth" is the queen of england.I mean , she does'nt make the rules , she has no way of effecting policy , she has no governing authority or responsibility. I feel i'm pretty much in the same position. I have no real product. Nothing tangible. Restricting my availability does'nt affect the market. I can't set my own prices. Demand does'nt drive the market , otherwise the huge "driver shortage" i keep hearing about would increase my rates and force carriers to find ways to attract and keep drivers happy. It seems to me i'm no more than an old time prospector looking for that rich vein that that will provide my fame and fortune. But i think when the "gold rush" is over...the only rich people will be the supply stores,(yes fed-ex,panther,landstar, i'm talking about you.),.I've never seen a market that is so luke warm on the issue...or are they? Was'nt that the big rally cry of illegal aliens last summer "no one else wants these low paying manual labor jobs". It seems the way NAFTA is worded that there is only a thin barrier holding back mexican trucks. I wonder how that will effect the rates?
Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisness?
- Thread starter grog111
- Start date
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
Excellent post!
I would say this, yes - it is a "small business". Except it really is a "partnership".
Don't be confused - by tax codes. For IRS purposes - you’re an "independent business", but beyond that your relationship with carrier is certainly a partnership.
Just like the Queen is in partnership with the Parliament of England - they are not synonymous - neither are they independent of each other.
Let's keep this thread rolling....
Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com
Music soothes the savage beast - unless it's polka.
Going to church makes you a Christian about as much as standing in the garage makes you a car
You can build a man a fire and keep him warm for a day or you can set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
ACHTUNG!!! Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfuseen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlights
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Excellent post!
I would say this, yes - it is a "small business". Except it really is a "partnership".
Don't be confused - by tax codes. For IRS purposes - you’re an "independent business", but beyond that your relationship with carrier is certainly a partnership.
Just like the Queen is in partnership with the Parliament of England - they are not synonymous - neither are they independent of each other.
Let's keep this thread rolling....
Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com
Music soothes the savage beast - unless it's polka.
Going to church makes you a Christian about as much as standing in the garage makes you a car
You can build a man a fire and keep him warm for a day or you can set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
ACHTUNG!!! Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfuseen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlights
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Thanks For Visiting EO!
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http://www.expeditersonline.com/hotnews/sterling_eo_forum.jpg
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RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
The partnership that we generally call expediting is really a triad; the Customer, the Carrier and the Owner/Operator. Take away any one and you have no reason to exist. The surface expedited transportation sector consists of an infinite number of triads, no single one of which sets the rates or determines the governing rules for all.
Because of the large number of independently operating triads, no single carrier can determine the rates for all its customers, but they can, and do, set the rates they pay the O/O. For this reason the O/O is not an equal partner with the carrier; never was, never will be. The O/O's only choice is to play by the Carrier's rules or move elswhere. Not until an O/O shortage is so acute, will the carrier adjust the rules to entice the Owner/Operator to join or stay
The Carrier is not an equal partner with the Customer either. Some large Customers set the prices they will pay and Carriers compete for that price. In that csae the heavy volume customer is the stronger partner Smaller customers are at the mercy of the Carrier's rates, these customers are the weaker partners.
So, no matter how you, look at it, we have a three sided partnership, but like the unequal legs of a scalene triangle, the Owner/Operator is always going to be the short leg.
The partnership that we generally call expediting is really a triad; the Customer, the Carrier and the Owner/Operator. Take away any one and you have no reason to exist. The surface expedited transportation sector consists of an infinite number of triads, no single one of which sets the rates or determines the governing rules for all.
Because of the large number of independently operating triads, no single carrier can determine the rates for all its customers, but they can, and do, set the rates they pay the O/O. For this reason the O/O is not an equal partner with the carrier; never was, never will be. The O/O's only choice is to play by the Carrier's rules or move elswhere. Not until an O/O shortage is so acute, will the carrier adjust the rules to entice the Owner/Operator to join or stay
The Carrier is not an equal partner with the Customer either. Some large Customers set the prices they will pay and Carriers compete for that price. In that csae the heavy volume customer is the stronger partner Smaller customers are at the mercy of the Carrier's rates, these customers are the weaker partners.
So, no matter how you, look at it, we have a three sided partnership, but like the unequal legs of a scalene triangle, the Owner/Operator is always going to be the short leg.
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
Terry excellent post one we need to all remember.
Terry excellent post one we need to all remember.
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
Terry... TOOT TOOT.
Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com
Music soothes the savage beast - unless it's polka.
Going to church makes you a Christian about as much as standing in the garage makes you a car
You can build a man a fire and keep him warm for a day or you can set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
ACHTUNG!!! Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfuseen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlights
-----------------------------------------
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Terry... TOOT TOOT.
Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com
Music soothes the savage beast - unless it's polka.
Going to church makes you a Christian about as much as standing in the garage makes you a car
You can build a man a fire and keep him warm for a day or you can set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
ACHTUNG!!! Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfuseen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlights
-----------------------------------------
Thanks For Visiting EO!
http://www.expeditersonline.com/hotnews/sterling_eo_forum.jpg
Please Help Us Get The Word
Out About Expediters Online.com!
-----------------------------------------
chuckwagon
Seasoned Expediter
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
Terry -
Full agreement.
However, if the driver was to tell the o/o and the o/o was to tell the customer HERE IS OUR PRICE TO MOVE YOUR PRODUCT - the customer would have to move on to another o/o.
But - if we would ALL STICK TOGETHER and have this policy of standing arm in arm side by side each other - would that not make the customer pay our price?
I mean afterall, where else does the customer set the price. I can not go into McDonalds, Arby's, the electric company, the phone company and pay what I say for them to have me as a customer - I have to pay their price or go elsewhere.
Now, true that is at the end user level BUT you get my point I believe.
WHY ARE WE SO WILLING NOT TO STAND TOGETHER TO GET THE FREIGHT RATES ADJUSTED TO OUR NEEDS FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!
Terry -
Full agreement.
However, if the driver was to tell the o/o and the o/o was to tell the customer HERE IS OUR PRICE TO MOVE YOUR PRODUCT - the customer would have to move on to another o/o.
But - if we would ALL STICK TOGETHER and have this policy of standing arm in arm side by side each other - would that not make the customer pay our price?
I mean afterall, where else does the customer set the price. I can not go into McDonalds, Arby's, the electric company, the phone company and pay what I say for them to have me as a customer - I have to pay their price or go elsewhere.
Now, true that is at the end user level BUT you get my point I believe.
WHY ARE WE SO WILLING NOT TO STAND TOGETHER TO GET THE FREIGHT RATES ADJUSTED TO OUR NEEDS FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!
rode2rouen
Expert Expediter
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
>It seems to me that the promotion of the idea of providing
>equipment is the same as "owning a buisness" seems a bit
>shaky at best.
In the broad scope of things, you could look at an O/O in the same light as a sub-contractor to an automotive component supplier.....there are many small companies that do sub-contract work for major suppliers. They provide a niche product/service that the major supplier is unwilling or unable to handle themselves.
Rex
>It seems to me that the promotion of the idea of providing
>equipment is the same as "owning a buisness" seems a bit
>shaky at best.
In the broad scope of things, you could look at an O/O in the same light as a sub-contractor to an automotive component supplier.....there are many small companies that do sub-contract work for major suppliers. They provide a niche product/service that the major supplier is unwilling or unable to handle themselves.
Rex
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
As O/O,Drivers,or Carriers we look for the best deal when we buy Tires,batteries,fuel,or even when we look for a hotel room to stay in.
But we do not want shippers to look for the most economical way to move product. This is what all of us do.
Owning a truck is considered an asset in business by accounting principles. It is only one part of a business, I know it is a big part. What you do with this asset will help decide how succesfull your business is. But there are other factors that can determine if you will be profitable some we can control others we can not.
I disagree with the idea of an O/O being a partner with the carrier as some have stated. As an employer you want your employees to feel like they are part of a team so they will strive for the good of the company. As carrier they like an O/O to feel that they are partners with them so the O/O feels like they are part of a team and not alone trying to be profitable. We do not sign partnership agreements with them we sign I/C agreements.
Most partnerships share the profits and losses by a determined percentage in the partnership agreement. Does this happen with your Carrier?
The only interest a Carrier has in an O/O is that they move product for their customer from A location to B location. If it is the O/O customer too why do contracts have non compete clauses.
The O/O only concern is to be profitable and they will take care of the Carriers customers to the best of their ability so they will be able to haul other loads for this Carrier.
The shippers responsibility is to have his product moved safely,quickly,and for the least amount of expense.
All three are needed to make this business happen. But each is responsible for their own profit.
As O/O,Drivers,or Carriers we look for the best deal when we buy Tires,batteries,fuel,or even when we look for a hotel room to stay in.
But we do not want shippers to look for the most economical way to move product. This is what all of us do.
Owning a truck is considered an asset in business by accounting principles. It is only one part of a business, I know it is a big part. What you do with this asset will help decide how succesfull your business is. But there are other factors that can determine if you will be profitable some we can control others we can not.
I disagree with the idea of an O/O being a partner with the carrier as some have stated. As an employer you want your employees to feel like they are part of a team so they will strive for the good of the company. As carrier they like an O/O to feel that they are partners with them so the O/O feels like they are part of a team and not alone trying to be profitable. We do not sign partnership agreements with them we sign I/C agreements.
Most partnerships share the profits and losses by a determined percentage in the partnership agreement. Does this happen with your Carrier?
The only interest a Carrier has in an O/O is that they move product for their customer from A location to B location. If it is the O/O customer too why do contracts have non compete clauses.
The O/O only concern is to be profitable and they will take care of the Carriers customers to the best of their ability so they will be able to haul other loads for this Carrier.
The shippers responsibility is to have his product moved safely,quickly,and for the least amount of expense.
All three are needed to make this business happen. But each is responsible for their own profit.
DannyD
Veteran Expediter
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
I have no real product. Nothing tangible.
>Restricting my availability does'nt affect the market. I
>can't set my own prices. Demand does'nt drive the market ,
>otherwise the huge "driver shortage" i keep hearing about
>would increase my rates and force carriers to find ways to
>attract and keep drivers happy. It seems to me i'm no more
>than an old time prospector looking for that rich vein that
>that will provide my fame and fortune.
Pretty astute observation in my book. I've always felt we were business owners more in the sense of we decide when we're available for work. At the same time, someone w/ a 9-5 job can simply call into where they work & take the day off. So I've often wondered how much different are we really?
We do have some decision power in will we take a run from Point A to Point B for X amount of dollars. And we get some tax benefits too. So there are a few things that make us business owners.
Having said that, unless we're out there securing our own freight like Dave & a few others, I'm not sure we'd be considered a business owner in the traditional sense. Maybe more a business owner/partner or something. I would think a business owner in the traditional sense would have more of an input on pricing & marketing more than just "I'll take that run" or "I won't take that run".
Good post & thought provoking,
Take care,
Danny
I have no real product. Nothing tangible.
>Restricting my availability does'nt affect the market. I
>can't set my own prices. Demand does'nt drive the market ,
>otherwise the huge "driver shortage" i keep hearing about
>would increase my rates and force carriers to find ways to
>attract and keep drivers happy. It seems to me i'm no more
>than an old time prospector looking for that rich vein that
>that will provide my fame and fortune.
Pretty astute observation in my book. I've always felt we were business owners more in the sense of we decide when we're available for work. At the same time, someone w/ a 9-5 job can simply call into where they work & take the day off. So I've often wondered how much different are we really?
We do have some decision power in will we take a run from Point A to Point B for X amount of dollars. And we get some tax benefits too. So there are a few things that make us business owners.
Having said that, unless we're out there securing our own freight like Dave & a few others, I'm not sure we'd be considered a business owner in the traditional sense. Maybe more a business owner/partner or something. I would think a business owner in the traditional sense would have more of an input on pricing & marketing more than just "I'll take that run" or "I won't take that run".
Good post & thought provoking,
Take care,
Danny
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
IMO, Danny's got it right. As contractors, we are limited to yes-no decisions, and where we want to dh to wait for our next load. In a sense, we're like a franchisee, where others make the rules, and we abide by them to get our piece of the pie. I don't know bout it being a "partnership" tho. Well... maybe in the sense that a wildebeast and an oxpecker are partners. And if one oxpecker leaves, there will be another to clean the wildebeast's ears. I see how this works out for contractors, as it relieves the stress of the really hard decisions, and usually provides enough earmites to live on
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
IMO, Danny's got it right. As contractors, we are limited to yes-no decisions, and where we want to dh to wait for our next load. In a sense, we're like a franchisee, where others make the rules, and we abide by them to get our piece of the pie. I don't know bout it being a "partnership" tho. Well... maybe in the sense that a wildebeast and an oxpecker are partners. And if one oxpecker leaves, there will be another to clean the wildebeast's ears. I see how this works out for contractors, as it relieves the stress of the really hard decisions, and usually provides enough earmites to live on
"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
bigjoep89
Expert Expediter
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
Concrete truck driver 15 years
Concrete sales mgr, 13 years.
Expediter 1.5 years.
Concrete truck driver 15 years
Concrete sales mgr, 13 years.
Expediter 1.5 years.
This is a interesting post.
The interesting thing about this business is the partnerships involved can unilaterally change your whole business plan overnight.
Example: You wake up one morning and the hours of service have changed. You wake up another morning and the carrier you are leased to has unilaterally taken away a large portion of your fuel surcharge.
As things change so quickly you realize you truly are in partnerships. Now please don't get me wrong as I am not complaining because with every change brings new opportunity you just have to figure out what that new opportunity is and capitalize on it. This is the part that makes you a business owner!
God bless our military and vets!
Concrete truck driver 15 years
Concrete sales mgr, 13 years.
Expediter 1.5 years.
Concrete truck driver 15 years
Concrete sales mgr, 13 years.
Expediter 1.5 years.
This is a interesting post.
The interesting thing about this business is the partnerships involved can unilaterally change your whole business plan overnight.
Example: You wake up one morning and the hours of service have changed. You wake up another morning and the carrier you are leased to has unilaterally taken away a large portion of your fuel surcharge.
As things change so quickly you realize you truly are in partnerships. Now please don't get me wrong as I am not complaining because with every change brings new opportunity you just have to figure out what that new opportunity is and capitalize on it. This is the part that makes you a business owner!
God bless our military and vets!
Broompilot
Veteran Expediter
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
Would it not depend on what you did with it?
Would it not depend on what you did with it?
RE: Is owning a truck the same as owning a buisnes
Might be a good idea if you want to hang on to your truck. Unless of course you are sitting there with a winning lottery ticket or banking on a miracle out of that New Testament.
Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Might be a good idea if you want to hang on to your truck. Unless of course you are sitting there with a winning lottery ticket or banking on a miracle out of that New Testament.
Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator