Is it just me?

hophead

Seasoned Expediter
Hey Im new but is it just me or have the rates at fdx been way lower than average? Im W/G liftgate reefer etc and it seems the offers are dropping per mile more than ever.I have been with them for 14 years and havent seen this type of drop since roberts let go.Please let me know I know for a fact to make a profit I myself need a min. of $1.62.5 a mile all things considered-ins, qcom ,wrkrs comp, maint, taxes, trk rplcmnt, fuel etc.Is it just me or are they trying to settle every run at about $1.20 a mile.....
 
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hophead

Seasoned Expediter
Yes with all things considered. Fuel at $3 a gallon thats .38 a mile.ins.is another? Qcomm is another? Workers comp is another? Maint. oil changes etc is another? Tires another per mile expense. Also a good biz man will pay his taxes and put about .20 a mile away for a truck replacement....with carb and fdx cracking down on older units etc....you may consider running for nothing under $1.50 a mile wake up....you need more than $1.50 to survive which is just a bit more than swift makes per mile with surcharge....specialized expedited freight handlers yeah right...
 

roadeyes

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
No, it's not just you. As I see this is your first post and you have just recently joined as a new forum member, let me say welcome and my suggestion would be to do a forum search for "fedex" or "fecc".

There are many on here complaining about the very same problem. In fact there is a forum for Fedex contractors only, that you may want to participate in. You may already be aware of this if you have surfed these forums for a while before registering, but that will give you something to go on in case you haven't.

Also would you please do us the courtesy of breaking down your cost per mile?

It does seem a bit high, but there may be things you are including that others have left out. I and I'm sure many others would be interested to know.

Thanks and welcome to the forums!
 

hophead

Seasoned Expediter
Greg I know $1.62 a mile seems real low but with my situation it works okay not good at all but okay....
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I like the number...it is the most honest number closer to true running I've seen posted...for a WG unit...ALL costs factored in...true take home pay...
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
If people are willing to run an expediting business for zero net income, wouldn't it make for a longer and less stressful life to just stay at home and tend to the garden for the same zero dollars? Might even be ahead of the game.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I'd almost bet the farm these people running for 1.20-1.30 are living on the edge...no back up funds, no replacement fund...week to week...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I'd almost bet the farm these people running for 1.20-1.30 are living on the edge...no back up funds, no replacement fund...week to week...


I can't run for 1.20 or 1.30 per mile. To be sure I can take one here or there but I have to average much higher than that. Luckily I am right now. It is getting far more difficult. It requires turning down more loads but we are doing it.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
I must be missing something,granted my truck is paid for,but repairs are costing more than any payment I've had in years.My co driver averages over $1000 per week,and between all the expenses,I can run for $1.25 per all miles.Of course thats not what I'm getting,and nothing I would work for,but I can do a load now and then that bottom line would pay that.My fuel coast averages 40 cpm,and drivers pay,both mine and co driver, is another 60 cpm.That leaves 25 cpm to cover all the rest of the expenses,and believe me,it will.By the way,My average pay is $1.61,all miles and that figure is by my odometer,for all miles run.
I know this forum is to help others with their business decissions,but I think if your going to knock the company your leased to,it should be in their own private forum,isn't that why it's there?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Sorry but it seems off. I don't include self-earning wages as wages, I am not my employee but the owner. I have to pay taxes on everything and everything over cost are treated as profit.

The net per mile is what I worry about, pre-taxed net that is. It may seem I am losing money but I am not by any means and I can take the lower rates without worrying about "losing" money (this includes maintenance fund, food, fuel at $3.50 a mile and so on). My net averages 60% for all miles above what the industry average for OTR top earners get, which is the only numbers I can use to judge how well I am doing - because this business is all screwed up with rates and there is no accurate measurement made.

I don't see any improvements in the near term for rates, they have gone up but I don't think enough to really say for sure they are going to stay up. This coming year with all these changes may tank the economy, it is teetering on falling off the edge now. FedEx may be testing the waters for something they plan to change (shhhh.....) or they may be trying to cover freight without going external - who knows - but they seem to start trends when there are a lot of people complaining about it.

Money management is key, a lot of these guys out here seem to not to know how to budget, how to actually set aside money and how to fix things that they can fix themselves so even at $1.75 a mile, they are living on the edge. I understand someone who has a capital investment of $300,000 with a solid contract that will allow them a ROI on that investment within a quick period having a higher costs and demand higher rates but not some of these $45,000 trucks with H/W owners running expect these rates all the time and then complain about it when they are seeing lower rates because they get trapped with high truck payments because of their rush to get into their own truck.
 

DaWhale

Seasoned Expediter
When you're calculating cost per mile are you assuming say 10,000 miles per month and using that to establish break even?
 

roadeyes

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Sorry but it seems off. I don't include self-earning wages as wages, I am not my employee but the owner. I have to pay taxes on everything and everything over cost are treated as profit.

But in my opinion that's exactly what you should do is treat yourself as an employee and pay yourself a wage, either
xx cents/mile or 40% or whatever and that should be included in your BEP for two reasons:

1) your time is worth something

2) if something changed in your personal life and for whatever
reason you could not drive anymore but you wanted to
keep the truck on the road with a driver to still be bringing
in an income, you would have to include that as a cost, so
better to do it now and know what that cost is IMO.


Note: I believe you should also incorporate and give yourself a
per diem as an employee and a statement of earnings
for tax purposes as well.

Either way, you most certainly should include it as part of your cpm or bep.
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
I get what you are saying. I am taking this entire business at a different approach for a number of reasons and it seems to work out well on the management end. I have applied it to another owner's fleet and it is working great there but that's another story in itself.

The one issue about thinking I am an employee has to do with the employee mindset that took a while to shed. I don't know why I held on to that, but it put me back in my thinking and how I viewed this business. It is refreshing to hear I wasn't the only one.

Incorporate?

Maybe, maybe not.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Sorry but it seems off. I don't include self-earning wages as wages, I am not my employee but the owner. I have to pay taxes on everything and everything over cost are treated as profit.

The net per mile is what I worry about, pre-taxed net that is. It may seem I am losing money but I am not by any means and I can take the lower rates without worrying about "losing" money (this includes maintenance fund, food, fuel at $3.50 a mile and so on). My net averages 60% for all miles above what the industry average for OTR top earners get, which is the only numbers I can use to judge how well I am doing - because this business is all screwed up with rates and there is no accurate measurement made.

I don't see any improvements in the near term for rates, they have gone up but I don't think enough to really say for sure they are going to stay up. This coming year with all these changes may tank the economy, it is teetering on falling off the edge now. FedEx may be testing the waters for something they plan to change (shhhh.....) or they may be trying to cover freight without going external - who knows - but they seem to start trends when there are a lot of people complaining about it.

Money management is key, a lot of these guys out here seem to not to know how to budget, how to actually set aside money and how to fix things that they can fix themselves so even at $1.75 a mile, they are living on the edge. I understand someone who has a capital investment of $300,000 with a solid contract that will allow them a ROI on that investment within a quick period having a higher costs and demand higher rates but not some of these $45,000 trucks with H/W owners running expect these rates all the time and then complain about it when they are seeing lower rates because they get trapped with high truck payments because of their rush to get into their own truck.

IMHO, your thoughts are exactly why this business generates the slogan, 'it's not a job, it's a lifestyle'.
The different ways in which people calculate their financial success in this business varies WIDELY.
Of course you are absolutely correct in that your profit is your pay since you are self employed, however, that's a narrow vision (IMHO).
Some may be able to take a lower rate for reasons such as 'my truck is paid for', 'I have a very low truck payment', 'a friend sold me his truck for peanuts', 'I can save piles of money doing my own repairs', 'I can eat dogfood instead of peoplefood and save thousands per year', 'I can go without bathing and save on shower costs', you name it, there's a way to save money.
Saving money is different from profitability, (again IMHO).

If a truck fell from the sky as a gift from God, one should still incorporate the cost of said piece of business equipment into their expenses, if not for THAT particular piece of equipment, then for the next one.
If someone wins a lottery and chooses to purchase a truck outright with the money, it's still a cost of doing business.
If one happens to be able to save thousands of dollars doing their own truck repairs and maintenance, that should be a bonus, and not an integral part of their profitability.
If one eats weiners, he should be able to bank an even more substantial savings, but it shouldn't affect his profitability.
If you look at the fleet owner.. they MUST incorporate the cost of the driver when figuring out their expenses. Why should it be different just because the truck owner happens to also drive the truck? And why should a spousal codriver not consider their 'pay' on their own merits, as opposed to making one income seem more profitable than if it were as a single?

It all depends on how you look at 'your business'... whether it is a real business, or just a way to get by in life, support yourself, have something to do with your time, be able to say you're working as opposed to being unemployed, etc. The problem with the latter way of thinking in many cases however, is that if something happens where an OO is no longer able to drive for any given reason, or he wants to retire, or whatever, that's all there is folks.. what next?

Real business owners need to generate profit on top of paying their labor and expenses, to remain in business and make their investment worth their while.
Real employees need to earn wages for their time to make it worth waking up to go to work every day.
In both of these cases, there is money generated to pay household bills, support families, buy toys, save for retirement, etc.
Some expediters it seems, may fall into a separate category unto themselves where it's good enough just to be able to afford to eat every day.

I'm not knocking the different ways in which people choose to support themselves. Whatever floats one's boat is all good, it's just difficult to compare success/profitability/earnings, when everyone thinks in different terms.
 
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pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Note: I believe you should also incorporate and give yourself a
per diem as an employee and a statement of earnings
for tax purposes as well.

Either way, you most certainly should include it as part of your cpm or bep.

roadeyes, I see you are also in Canada. The Americans are allowed to claim their per diem whether or not they are incorporated, whereas here, it is not allowed. Sucks.
 

roadeyes

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
I was not aware of that difference, bonus for them!
I think I would still incorporate though, just for liability purposes, but that's just me.
 

dabluzman1

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Numbers can be shown many ways for a variety of reasons.

Personally, I am only interested in the Total gross ( run $ + FSC
+ Toll $ ) minus expenses, for the entire year.

Previous years history helps identify what is needed to break even
with certain variables ( fuel ).

At this time I too say my minimum for all miles is around $1.65.
All miles includes, DHL + DHPU + RUN.
That is a guide, and like Layout said, we will for sure take an occasional 1.20 or 1.35 to get moving or out of one area to a better one.

While in '09 our gross was down from '08, we actually netted 4% more income. A big factor being the lower cost of fuel in '09 vs '08. The higher FSC fattened the mile rate in '08 but didnt help the net.
This year, fuel is a little higher, gross is up 20%.
We are very happy with what we are seeing and getting.
We will easily surpass '08s gross and more importantly, '09 net profit.
And we will average well over the 1.65 minimum we set as
a guide.
 
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