Is he a citizen - Part II

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Maybe the "birthers" will finally shut up. :cool:


Romney's birth certificate evokes his father's controversy - Yahoo! News

Romney's birth certificate evokes his father's controversy



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Finally, there is definitive proof: The presidential candidate was born in the United States, and his father was not.

Yes, Republican Mitt Romney appears eligible to be president, according to a copy of Romney's birth certificate released to Reuters by his campaign. Willard Mitt Romney, the certificate says, was born in Detroit on March 12, 1947.
His mother, Lenore, was born in Utah and his father, former Michigan governor and one-time Republican presidential candidate George Romney, was born in Mexico.

So on a day when real estate and media mogul Donald Trump was trying to help Mitt Romney by stirring up a new round of questions about whether Democratic President Barack Obama was born in the United States, Romney's own birth record became a reminder that in the 1968 presidential campaign, his father had faced his own "birther" controversy.

Back then, George Romney - who died in 1995 - was a moderate who was challenging eventual President Richard Nixon in the Republican primaries.
Records in a George Romney archive at the University of Michigan describe how questions about his eligibility to be president surfaced almost as soon as he began his short-lived campaign.

In many ways, they appear to echo today's complaints that Trump and some other conservative "birthers" have made about Obama while questioning whether Obama - whose father was from Kenya and mother was from Kansas - was born in Hawaii.

In George Romney's case, most of the questions were raised initially by Democrats who cited the Constitution's requirement that only a "natural born citizen" can be president.

As early as February 1967 - a year before the first 1968 presidential primary - some newspapers were raising questions as to whether George Romney's place of birth disqualified him from the presidency.

By May 1967, U.S. congressman Emmanuel Celler, a Democrat who chaired the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee, was expressing "serious doubts" about George Romney's eligibility.

The next month, another Democratic congressman inserted a lengthy treatise into the Congressional Record in which a government lawyer - writing in a "personal capacity" - argued that George Romney was ineligible for the White House because he was born outside U.S. territory.

DEJA VU

In what today might seem like deja vu, eminent legal authorities soon were queuing up to argue in favor of George Romney's eligibility.

The New York Law Journal published a lengthy argument by a senior partner from Sullivan & Cromwell, one of Manhattan's elite law firms, arguing that the fact that both of George Romney's parents were U.S. citizens clearly established him as a "natural born citizen" who was eligible to be president.

George Romney himself was unequivocal.

"I am a natural born citizen. My parents were American citizens. I was a citizen at birth," he said, according to a typewritten statement found in his archives.
At one point, the Congressional Research Service - an arm of the Library of Congress that is supposed to provide authoritative but impartial research for elected members - advised that its analysts agreed with George Romney, according to a congressional source.

In a paper in November aimed at clarifying presidential eligibility, the Congressional Research Service declared that the practical, legal meaning of "natural born citizen" would "most likely include" not only anyone born on U.S. soil but anyone born overseas of at least one parent who was a U.S. citizen.

ROMNEY'S DANCE WITH TRUMP

Mitt Romney has tried to avoid getting caught up in Trump's focus on Obama's birthplace.

"Governor Romney has said repeatedly that he believes President Obama was born in the United States," said Eric Fehrnstrom, a senior adviser to Romney.
However, the presumed Republican nominee has not distanced himself from Trump, creating what some analysts said seems to be a quiet endorsement of Trump's efforts to raise questions about Obama among voters.

Michael Cohen, special counsel to Trump, said that Trump and Romney never talk about issues Trump has raised elsewhere regarding Obama's birth certificate. Instead they talk about jobs, the economy and other matters of public policy.
Asked whether Trump sees any double standard in going after Obama when Romney's father faced similar questions about his presidential eligibility, Cohen told Reuters: "I don't think (Trump) has ever thought about Mitt Romney's father's birth certificate."

Cohen said Trump recently revived the issue of Obama's birthplace because journalists asked him about the issue after a right-wing website published an old blurb for an Obama book that suggested that Obama was born in Kenya. The literary agent who wrote the blurb subsequently said it was written in error.
Cohen said Trump believes "the president of the United States should be the single most transparent human being on this planet. This president lacks that transparency."

(Editing by David Lindsey and Christopher Wilson)
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
What am I missing here? Does anyone doubt Mitt Romney was born in Michigan or that his father George was born in Mexico?
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Nope. Just showing that the issue of birth was resolved 44 years ago.

It was resolved over a hundred and fifty years ago when it was stated that "Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural-born citizen". It appears the Congressional Research Service decided to change the meaning after it had already been established.

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skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
getting to the bottom of BHO birth thingie, is like getting to the bottom of the Fast and Furious thingie, aint gonna go nowhere, nohow, noway, there is so much bull hokey out here and mass confusion over who said what, its time for some cough syrup make by Evan Williams.
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
I have never been a "birther", but I sure do wonder why so much time and money has been spent oh hiding Obama's past ... from birth until now.

And then when parts of it are revealed by the man himself, admitting to his drug use, etc, it is simply ignored. In this culture of "me" whatever brings the most free money is the way to proceed.

If an admitted druggie can provide, then we vote him in ..... sad.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
I have never been a "birther", but I sure do wonder why so much time and money has been spent oh hiding Obama's past ... from birth until now.

Congratulations, you are now officially a "Birther".

I especially like the part where you said, "From birth to now." Obama, the real Manchurian Candidate.

Care to share the sources for your accusation that the President has spent so much time and money on "hiding" his past? What parts of his past has he spent all this time and money on trying to hide?

And then when parts of it are revealed by the man himself, admitting to his drug use, etc, it is simply ignored.

One could argue he has the courage to come forward and admit his use with drugs as a youth and not hide it like past Presidents. Much like George W. Bush's admittance to his alcohol and drug use in his not so long ago past before he found religion. Neither man's admittance to their past indulgences went unnoticed by the way, quite the contrary.

In this culture of "me" whatever brings the most free money is the way to proceed.

Not really sure what you're trying to say here. You've gone from talking about the President spending money and hiding his birth certificate to his drug use to free money? When you say "free money" are talking about welfare or something? Correct me if I'm wrong, but its as if you are tying drug use, free money and the President together for some nefarious reason.

If an admitted druggie can provide, then we vote him in ..... sad.

Huh? Provide? Provide what?

An admitted druggie? C'mon man, seriously.

Here some good ole fashioned advice, children and moderators alike should be seen and not heard.
Maybe getting back to the basics would do the site wonders.
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
witness23; said:
Here some good ole fashioned advice, children and moderators alike should be seen and not heard.
Maybe getting back to the basics would do the site wonders.


Boy, that didn't take you long Witness.


Here's the deal... not gonna happen.. I recruit moderators from the membership... they still are members after that and are not asked to give up their opinions.

Perhaps the next one will agree with you all the time!


Dale
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Boy, that didn't take you long Witness.

Just my opinion is all.

Here's the deal... not gonna happen.. I recruit moderators from the membership... they still are members after that and are not asked to give up their opinions.

Here's the deal.... I, as a member will not give up my opinions as well. Like the Mittster said, "What's sauce for the goose is now sauce for the gander."

Seriously, who say's that?

Perhaps the next one will agree with you all the time!

Perhaps. If the process is left up to you to choose moderators, then I have my doubts. But I'm not asking anyone or expecting anyone to agree with me. Maybe that's what you want in a moderator when choosing people, one's that agree with you all the time? Just giving out some advice is all, you or anyone else can choose to take it or leave it, no big deal, no skin off my back bro'.

BTW.....your post in a thread about the President's birth certificate and you whining about my opinion on the role a mod should play is another example of being seen and not heard.

A moderator posts in a thread about the President's birth certificate and brings up drug use, something about free money and the "me" generation, I'm sure you would agree with me that its just a bit off topic. Then our moderator makes the claim that he/she isn't a "Birther" , but wonder's out loud why the President has spent so much time and money hiding his past. Sorry but its fair game to question his/her ability to perform the duties of a moderater if he/she can't even stay on topic.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Well Witness, you are the one that brought up the role of moderators. Which of course has nothing to do with the birther issue. Funny how that happens.:rolleyes:

I think you need to brush up on those delivery skills before accepting a badge to be the post police.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
I have never been a "birther", but I sure do wonder why so much time and money has been spent oh hiding Obama's past ... from birth until now.

And then when parts of it are revealed by the man himself, admitting to his drug use, etc, it is simply ignored. In this culture of "me" whatever brings the most free money is the way to proceed.

If an admitted druggie can provide, then we vote him in ..... sad.

I have never been convinced that Obama was born in Kenya but he turned it into such a long drawn out waste of time, energy, and money that I think it is reasonable to wonder why. He either proved he was born Kenya or that he has no idea what he is doing, my bet is the latter.

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witness23

Veteran Expediter
I have never been convinced that Obama was born in Kenya but he turned it into such a long drawn out waste of time, energy, and money that I think it is reasonable to wonder why.

He did?

He either proved he was born Kenya or that he has no idea what he is doing, my bet is the latter.

Perplexing. Are you saying the President has proven that he was born in Kenya? You say that you're convinced he was not born in Kenya then say, "He either proved that he was born in Kenya or that he has no idea what he is doing." So, do you believe he has proven that he wasn't born in Kenya? Do you believe he was born somewhere else other than Hawaii? Do you believe in unicorns?

Gotta hand it to the GOP, their strategy of appealing to the lowest common denominator of the Republican base is working quite well.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Well Witness, you are the one that brought up the role of moderators. Which of course has nothing to do with the birther issue. Funny how that happens.:rolleyes:

I think you need to brush up on those delivery skills before accepting a badge to be the post police.

In my opinion the role of a moderator should be held to a higher standard and understand their role in the community. I just don't think its good practice for a moderator to derail a thread or take it off topic.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
In my opinion the role of a moderator should be held to a higher standard and understand their role in the community. I just don't think its good practice for a moderator to derail a thread or take it off topic.

Have you ever come to realization that "most" here really don't give a crap what you think on this or about most any other topic..?!?!?.but reading most of it is funny...And before you say, yea i have that realization from time to time...but....:D
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I would relax a little and not worry about what role a new moderator has or doesn't have. The soapbox is a informal place that will on occasion have a topic that goes on and off track. The same thing applies with grammar. If someone forgets to dot the "i" or misspells a word, it is hardly warrants a crisis.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Have you ever come to realization that "most" here really don't give a crap what you think on this or about most any other topic..?!?!?.but reading most of it is funny...And before you say, yea i have that realization from time to time...but....:D

Project much?

In case you are wondering what the psychological meaning of "projection" is.........

A psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.[1]

Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.

An example of this behavior might be blaming another for self failure. The mind may avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, and by redirecting libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or "projecting," those same faults onto another person or object.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter

Yes, he did.

Perplexing. Are you saying the President has proven that he was born in Kenya? You say that you're convinced he was not born in Kenya then say, "He either proved that he was born in Kenya or that he has no idea what he is doing." So, do you believe he has proven that he wasn't born in Kenya? Do you believe he was born somewhere else other than Hawaii? Do you believe in unicorns?

Well the fact that I said I wasn't convinced he was born in Kenya means exactly that. Then notice I used the word "or", He either proved that he was born in Kenya OR that he has no idea what he is doing. Now the fact that I stated I wasn't convinced he was born in Kenya and ended the statement saying I bet it is the latter means I think he proved he doesn't know what he is doing, to others it may mean he had something to hide. As the self appointed grammar cop it seems you would know that the word "or" means it could've been either.

Gotta hand it to the GOP, their strategy of appealing to the lowest common denominator of the Republican base is working quite well.

You may lose your badge over this grammar cop brutality. You didn't understand a simple 2 letter word, then embarrassed yourself and the whole grammar police department by trying to insult someone's intelligence that knows what the word means.

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Monty

Expert Expediter
It has always been my policy to offer my OPINION ... if it does not agree with you, fair enough. I'm not going to debate it .... either accept it, or reject it, as witness has done.

I'm not offended by his comments of me, nor am I offended that we disagree ..... it's the American way.
 
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