Is Expediting in vans becoming becoming extinct?

[Marty]

I am currently leased to Tri-State with a van. I have been averaging only about $400 a week for the past couple of months. I am looking to go to LEA but some recent posts on this site indicate that vans aren't doing well with them. I have talked with drivers from Panther, Con-Way Now,Fed-Ex,Express One,and several others,and they all seem to be starving.
Has the Expediting Industry died? Has the cargo van become an endangered species in this industry? Is there any company out there that a single driver in a van can still make a living?

 

[zipcards]

RE: Is Expediting in vans becoming extinct?

I sure wish more experienced expeditors would reply to your message. I am thinking about getting into the business and a used van seems like the least expensive way of getting started. Every expedite company I have contacted so far recommends getting a straight truck but says that a van would be fine if I only want to net $25,000.00 to $30,000.00 a year. They all claimed I could net double that with a straight truck and claim to get 30% more load requests for straight trucks. Not sure what to do here. Hope you get more replies.

 

[RichM]

RE: Is Expediting in vans becoming extinct?

I drive a straight truck (D Unit) but I have many friends with vans.None of them are making money.One to two runs a week maybe grossing $5-600 seems to be the norm.Your quoted rates of $25-30,000 appears to be right on the money,or should I say lack of money.I don!t think van expediting will go away but with companies like FDX Ground. and UPS going after expedited small freight the Vans will suffer.I would go with at least a C unit,the operating costs are almost identical (unless you are GEO, sorry George but a Western Star C Unit ???) purchase price is not that much more and there is a lot of C freight available.

 

[tr]

RE: Is Expediting in vans becoming extinct?

It goes without saying you can get more in a straight truck or a big truck than in a van. Therefore if you owned the company, who do you want to keep around (even though vans most likely made that company).
That's right straight trucks and big trucks. How do you keep them around, you give them one or two skids that maybe, repeat maybe should have gone a van instead in lieu of them having to sit around. Once I saw a 53 foot trailer with a 80 lb skid on it going from KY to PA. Hard to believe. I predict that someday companies will wake up and say "where have all the vans gone". Then what are they going to do when they need to move the freight 600 miles and has to be there asap. Oh, there going to give it to a truck, have them haul it till they are out of hours, then have some sucker dead head 150 miles to pick up the freight and take it the remaining 150 miles.
If I had it to do over again I would go with a straight truck Nothing against the trucks, just venting. (In my opinion) if you are starting up now in a van, stock up on vaseline and have a good bankruptcy lawer on hand. You just might need both.

 

[Weave]

RE: Is Expediting in vans becoming extinct?

I have done the math over and over, and a dock high C or D unit truck is the best way to go profit wise for expediting if one has the means and knowledge to run one. Unless one just wants supplimental or retirement income, it would be tough to make a living with a van. I know there are exceptions.
-Weave-

 

[gump]

RE: Is Expediting in vans becoming extinct?

I too am running a van and yes im making a month what i used to make in a week.I can only say im very happy i made the decision to start with the van and not the straight truck,im saving about a grand a month in truck payment and if this fails i can used the van as a way to my next job.I cant speak for everyone but the van was the right choice for me.

 

[Ram_ma_Ram_pa]

RE: Is Expediting in vans becoming extinct?

Dad and I have 15 yr at this expediting 5 yr White Glove Roberts C unit we did great only becuase we were White Glove Regular freight was bad but now we worked at 46% 62% the QC broke us as they shipped everything at 46% as they knew were we were and brought trucks in that would only get the load at 46% We have been in the Van now for 10 in May and we have never seen it this bad as Jan-Feb was slow but never Nov. Dec.We feel it's the ecomonmy that is breaking us and Dad feels thier waiting for old Bush to see whats up with the War and What kind of tax brakes a Company can get to expand so we just have to hang in there and switching will not inprove your income all Expediters are hurting.Ma

 

[teacel]

RE: Is Expediting in vans becoming extinct?

Hi All,
First I want to say that I saw your web site the other day, for the first time Ma. Great job you've done there. I may have some material and pictures that you can publish.

I wasn't going to add my two cents to this one! But I will!

I think Rich M's statement: " I don’t think van expediting will go away but with companies like FDX Ground. and UPS going after expedited small freight the Vans will suffer." is a fact. Those two are my biggest competition. FDX more so than UPS, only because they are cheaper. The only thing I can offer to a customer, that they don't is TLC (tender loving care)PEX (that is going to be my new logo text)PEX drivers can offer and handle the freight with allot less damage than most of the competition. The other is "Volume" The customer has to pay the miles to consignee for one piece or ten. The competition charges by the piece. I can see where this can take freight away from the van. Now that FDX bought out AF (LTL freight) a while back and now call it Fed-Ex Freight they can and do allot of what the vans used to do.

tr, hit on a good point also: "straight trucks and big trucks. How do you keep them around, you give them one or two skids that maybe, re: maybe should have gone to a van instead, in lieu of them having to sit around." This is also a fact. In my opinion, As sad as it is, most companies running JIT Freight are better off with D & E units, than with vans. I also believe they hire on more vans than needed, in hope of!!! But HOPE! doesn't pay the bills.

The GREASE MONKEY! ( suitable for your picture logo)Could it be we found you a new handle??? Weave's comment: " a dock high C or D unit truck is the best way to go profit wise for expediting if one has the means and knowledge to run one." is another good point. There has been allot of shippers and/or receivers that turned a van away only to get a dock height truck in to do the delivery. I had my insurance company draw be up some Release forms called - Release of Accidental Bodily Injury, and/or Property Damage while on their property. It's a waiver stating that if a PEX driver gets hurt or damages anything of the customer that PEX is solely responsible for it. This now allows PEX drivers to load and/or unload our own vans. The shippers and receivers like this idea. I do get some added work because, but I will have to compare the extra work to the extra insurance cost and see if we have a wash.

Ma is right when she said: "we just have to hang in there and switching will not improve your income all Expediters are hurting." For a driver to switch will cost some down time and you will have to come up with extra money for start up, all over again. I think it's the same all over. There aren't very many van drivers that post about how rich they are getting from driving that van.

This seems to be a serious subject and a topic that every van driver and prospective van driver wants to know and read about.

Dear old Mr. Jeff Jensen! Allot of us drivers know that van freight is down, but we can only speculate as to why. Do you think you can find some room in your date book or prioritize and expedite an article on this topic. Why is the freight hauled by van or b units so slow? You may be able to get an interview or two with some of the bigger companies, like Fed-ex CC or Con-Way Now or Tri State. If you feel they will tell the truth, and answer your questions with answers and not with another question.

 

[Ram_ma_Ram_pa]

RE: Is Expediting in vans becoming extinct?

Tercel Dad said just send any pic's to e-mailaddress and he's post.Ma

 

[action]

RE: Is Expediting vans becoming becoming extinct?

NO, vans are not becomming extinct! When freight goes up again and it has to (just don't know when). The big trucks will get there freight, the stright trucks will get theres and we van drivers will get ours.

With freight down the big trucks get stright truck loads, stright trucks get van loads and we get the "junk" that can't be forced onto the others.

Fedex, Tri-State, Panther, Conway and ALL the rest know it's harder to put on big trucks, then stright trucks and vans can be gotten ANYTIME! That's why we suffer the most!!

This business started with vans and when the van drivers band into one group and stop allowing this crap to happen the better off we will be. And I'm tired of being told it can't happen, it can! No, not now with freight down but when it comes up to the high end if 90% of the van drivers went on vacation the same week I know there would be some changes made.

Some Tri-State drivers told me that mgnt. at Tri-State told them that van drivers are useless and as soom as they get more stright trucks all vans will be gone! IF this is true I'd like to know how the stright trucks will be able to live on $.62 to $.85 per mile.

 

[JJ]

RE: Is Expediting vans becoming becoming extinct?

I am doing some fuzzy math here,

Let's say that company A has and maintains 300 vans for a year, and each of those vans averages gross $40,000.00 (I sure hope I low balled this figure enough) to each van before deductions.

$40,000
X300
___________
$12,000,000.00 thats 12 million

now add to that base figure 35% the company's cut
$12,000,000.00
X35%
_________________
4,200,000.00
+12,000,000.00
_________________
$16,200,000.00

Who in their right mind would want to eliminate a sector of their business with a potential gross of $16.2+ million dollars???

This is just fuzzy math on one companys vans, what about all the others? You know like FED-EX, Panther II,Land-Star,TST,Rocket and on and on.Add in the independant o/o's with their own authorities and the figures become staggering.There has to be billions of $$$$ out there for vans.

An all van company could pay quite well.


JJ

 

[GroundHawk]

RE: Is Expediting vans becoming becoming extinct?

The biggest draw back I see with a van is that it is not dock high.Now I have seen some companies with dock for vans,but they are rare.I think the sprinter is a well design truck,but it has a very big weakness-------it is not dock high. I know a company where a van could make a ton of money hauling nose gear for small aircraft------but once again you have to be able to load and unload off of a dock. Hawk

 

[gump]

RE: Is Expediting vans becoming becoming extinct?

nose gear huh...ramp and a pallet jack maybe?

 

[teacel]

RE: Is Expediting vans becoming becoming extinct?

Do you think my new convertion van is dock high --- http://www.photovault.com/Link/Vehicles/Cars/Expressive/VCEVolume01/VCEV01P03_05.jpg


This one here is for Elmo to ride around and get new accounts --- http://www.photovault.com/Link/Vehicles/Cars/Expressive/VCEVolume01/VCEV01P08_12.jpg
--- If they say NO you can sing to them!!!


This is Weave's new service truck to go along with his Q & A ---
http://www.photovault.com/Link/Vehicles/Cars/Expressive/VCEVolume01/VCEV01P07_19.jpg



My new look??? ---
http://www.photovault.com/Link/Vehicles/Cars/Expressive/VCEVolume01/VCEV01P08_09.jpg
--- LOL }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }> }>

 

[Wild Bill]

I have always drove a D unit. My codriver and I have been waiting for the B unit death chime for 7 years now and it still hasn't rang.

I think there are many factors in which it makes a difference. I think the company you choose and if you run single vs codriver is the main concern.

I look at it this way; If you swear to the Gods of expediting that you would NEVER run team with anyone under any circumstances and want to run with FedEx or one the clones of FECC, I think you would be better off in a B unit for 2 reasons:

1. Driving timeIf you have a D unit signed on with FECC or its clones you would be limited to 525 miles a day. And much of the freight you would carry is one or two skids anyway. As a B unit driver you can carry the same one or two skids for up to 700 miles a day. That can really make a difference. And if the company is in a pinch they can suspend their self imposed rule and give you a longer run if need be. I have seen them do it before.

2. Cost of operationAs you learn in Expediting 101 the cost of purchasing a van and operation is quite a bit less than a D or E unit. If you don't make as much per week you don't have to worry as much about the $1000-$2000. a month payment and insurance..etc.

If I was to sign on with a company such as LEA as an example, there definition of size of truck is a bit more hazy, not as rigid as the clones above. If you have a van that can legally and safely carry 4 skids they will load you. I would suggest a Sprinter van.

To paraphrase Mark Twain "The reports of the death of Expediter vans has been greatly exagerated." Their will always be a need for the smaller units. I just feel the companies aren't using them to their full potantial. It would be great if you could transfer freight off of a D unit onto a B and have the B deliver it into the big cities where it is hard for a bigger truck to get around, I am sure there are many possibilities.

 

[vernon946]

RE: Expediting vans becoming extinct?

I've also been running around the country wearing FedEx CC clothing on a C truck. Over 90 % of our loads for the past 3 months have been C loads, although many would have been B loads if the companies had not called for a dock high vehicle.

We have noticed that few B trucks seem to move on the board, although we have seen the same thing happen with C and D trucks too. The only consistent movers are the E trucks. With all of us, it seems like the freight just isn't there.

I would have to call the B trucks as alive and well as the rest of us, except with our higher "nuts" called truck payments, taxes, fuel, etc., we sometimes have to take some loads that in good times we would reject. B trucks have an advantage here because their nut is smaller and fuel economy better.

Vernon

 

[pellgrn]

RE: Expediting vans becoming extinct?

i have a van and was wondering if your rate changes for hauling b freight in a bigger unit? i imagine so,and also understand its a matter of how bad they need you to cover the load and if they are able broker the load to another company.

 

[KandS2]

RE: Expediting vans becoming extinct?

My husband and I have a D and a B unit. If a B unit isn't around, and they have to put it on a D, the rate does go up. Maybe not as high as normal D rates, but higher than B. Usually a C rate.

Stay safe out there!


Stay safe out there!

 

[Twistoff]

RE: Expediting vans becoming extinct?

(2012)If that is what you are being told then you are being mislead by the agent. If it is a B unit load, then it is a B unit rate period!! Most customers have rates in place with the agents, especially if it is a National account for LEA. Unfortunately the only way a D unit would make more then the required B unit is to have M.F. from the LEA National Support Center authorize a BCO Compensation Exemption Form. And depending on which agency you are, will determine if it is approved or not. To clarify, lets say unit 4602 was the only unit in the area, the agent would stretch the truth & tell the Driver that this particular load was a B unit load, BUT he has been authorized to pay a little more on it to entice the D unit to do it. The agent will then give you the figures for the load, which just happen to be the exact same figures a B unit would have received. Its a word game & comes down to what you want to believe & what you don't.

 

[KandS2]

RE: Expediting vans becoming extinct?

<<the agent would stretch the truth & tell the Driver that this particular load was a B unit load, BUT he has been authorized to pay a little more on it to entice the D unit to do it.>>

I know the national accounts have no room in which to play with the rates, and they are the ones that tend to be cheap. But how do you explain loads that are offered to B units, turned down, then offered to D units at a higher (usually C) rates? Also, agents will "shop" the rate of a load, trying to find the unit (any size) that will take it. If everyone turns it down, they try again at a higher rate.

This is just my limited experience, and I know I've not seen it all.


Stay safe out there!