Inverter / watts question

mcavoy33

Seasoned Expediter
I'm probably going to go with a $29.99 400w continuous / 800w peak Chicago Electric. I'll upgrade down the road if I ever add a fridge or microwave.

I finally made a purchase, I went with the 750/1500 watt Chicago Electric.

I normally drive a 2007 sprinter but it's in the shop this week. The sprinter has the batteries under the drivers side floor but I imagine you wouldn't be able to close it with the cables sticking out. Is there a connection under the driver seat?

This week I am driving a 2005 Chevy Express. There is a fuse panel under the driver seat but I don't see any connections. Is the battery the only option?

If so, is there a cheaper option to buying a 6' extension from Harbour Freight than $40? Would an electric supply store or something have cheaper options?
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
If you are going to be running that inverter off your "starting" battery....be real careful...you also might want to keep a set of jumper cables with you all the time also...
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
For real. Starting batteries are designed for one purpose, and running an inverter ain't it. It's designed to supply a snotload of amps for a few seconds to start the vehicle. The lead plates in a cranking battery are the exact wrong kind for the sustained draw of an inverter. There's no way to reinvent the battery/inverter wheel. If you use your cranking battery for an inverter, you'll end up having to get a few jumps, and then replace the battery years before its time. Use an isolated auxiliary battery that is designed for inverter use, keep it properly charged and do not discharge it too deeply, and it'll last years longer than you can imagine.

A pre-made extender at $40 seems about right, depending on the gauge of the cable. Pre-made cable will always be more expensive than when you make it yourself. Of course, if you use good quality cable and lugs, that's not gonna be cheap, either.
 

golfournut

Veteran Expediter
I have a Aims 1500 watt pure sign wave inverter. 3 months old, was working great. Parked the van for vacation for 10 days. Installed the new tv today. Turned on the inverter, and nothing! The red and green idiot lights were both on, no voltage read out on the display.
Voltage at the battery, 150 amp fuse and at the inverter is 12.8 volts.
Talked to aims tech support, disconnect the cables see if it rests. Did that, didn't reset. Gotta send it back for an exchange.

Going to Walmart and by a cheapo to get me by. Just a pain in the but to swap it out.

Asked tech support what would cause it to go bad without a load on it? No answer, no help.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
The starting battery is not designed for the use with a inverter...even with the van running, you are drawing from the battery, not the alternator....

save yourself the problemms go buy a good deep cell12 volt battery, a isolator and wire it up right .....i know the van isn't yours, so dont make the installation permenant..there is no cheap easy way to do this, but it will save you aggravation and money in the long run...
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
What if I am only running the inveter when the van is running?
That won't really change the design of the battery. You'll still draw stored electricity from those thin lead plates in the cranking battery, and the alternator will quickly recharge the battery in the process. So you won't run the starting battery down while the van is running, but the battery will still need to be replaced long before it should, because the rapid discharge and recharge causes premature sulfation buildup, which is the death knoll of a battery. Everything will seem fine, then one day you'll go to start the van and the battery will be dead as a door nail. And it won't hold a charge. You'll jump start it, and it'll run fine all day long, but as soon as you turn it off you'll find it won't start the van because it's dead as a door nail again, despite having been being charged all day by the alternator.

There are basically three types of batteries that work in various applications for us out here. One is the cranking battery, which is designed for lots of amps in a very short period of time, and will recharge rather quickly.

Another is the deep cycle marine, which is designed for the low amp draw of a trolling motor or boat marker lights (about a 5 amp sustained draw over a period of a few hours), but can double as cranking batteries (marine deep cycle and "truck" batteries are virtually identical). These work well for low amp draws and discharges which are not very deep (no deeper than 50%, for sure, or until the battery voltage is about 12.2 volts). They are not at all suited for microwaves, refrigerators, heaters, air conditioners, rice cookers or any other inductive heat appliance. But they will work fine for a laptop, couple of lights, certainly an Espar heater, and maybe a TV or something.

The other kind is true deep cycle batteries, AGM or wet, generally much more expensive than cranking or marine (truck) batteries, and will handle higher amp draws for longer periods of time. Not designed for cranking, but can be used in a pinch, especially in larger battery banks.

Pick the battery for what you want to do with it, and don't try to make a battery do something it's not designed to do. The old saying, "Batteries don't die, their owners kill them," is very, very true, because people are constantly trying to use a battery for something other than what it was designed for, or they fail to properly monitor it and end up routinely discharging it too deeply, and then not fully recharging it. Running a battery down to where inverters scream and lights go dim, and then running the engine for 15 minutes to recharge it is First Degree Batteryslaughter.

And like Dennis said, there is no cheap, easy way to do this. If you cheap out, you'll have nothing but problems. You want to use the right cables, the right lugs, the right fuses, and the right isolator (or separator).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Force-Nale

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I have one question. After you've placed half of the appliances that you would have in your house into your truck, where do you put the paying freight??? Seriously, an apartment-sized refrigerator? A microwave oven, a wok and I don't know what other odds and ends--- it all makes life more comfortable and of course you need big power to make it all happen, but all that stuff must take up some room and even in the bigger trucks you reach a point where the stuff crowds out either your freight or your sleeping space, I would think.

Now, for me it's not an issue because in a standard CV you have a choice: Set it up as an RV with all the comforts of home, or have room for freight-- you can't really do both. But it makes me wonder how much room you really have in the larger trucks.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I have one question. After you've placed half of the appliances that you would have in your house into your truck, where do you put the paying freight???
There isn't any room for paying freight, duh. That's why we have to turn all loads offers down. People who tell you they have appliances running off inverters in their vans, AND that they also haul freight, are pulling your leg. Can't be done, no way, no how.
 

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
There isn't any room for paying freight, duh. That's why we have to turn all loads offers down. People who tell you they have appliances running off inverters in their vans, AND that they also haul freight, are pulling your leg. Can't be done, no way, no how.

I've seen some stuff at the truck stops that seem to fit in OK. What triggered my rant/question was the idea that one person has an apartment-size refrigerator in their truck. Now, that gets a wee bit outlandish. Even the smaller apartment refrigerators I've seen look way too large, and it doesn't take an over-active imagination to figure you might have a problem real quick. Throw in a room air-conditioner, a range/oven combo and a halfway decent sofa-- well, it's a nice living but....

I do see some stuff at the truck stops that look reasonable, small enough to fit and just maybe large enough to be halfway useful, and maybe you can power it without having to have an inverter set/battery pack that could power a small town. You'll still have to have a convincing power set up, and with the kind of power draw we're REASONABLY talking about here I imagine it could be a job for a pro to set up, but--- possible with the limited space and resources we actually have available.

I note that even relatively small converters use heavy cables for their battery connections, so that makes me think that some of the heavy ones you've been talking about here must be using cables near the size of the ones that run from your starting battery to the starter. That really does call for serious thought about how you set that up.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I've seen some stuff at the truck stops that seem to fit in OK. What triggered my rant/question was the idea that one person has an apartment-size refrigerator in their truck. Now, that gets a wee bit outlandish.
You mean, like a 56.63" tall, 108 lb, 4.8 cu. ft. refrigerator/freezer with a microwave, with a printer-scanner-copier cherry on top outlandish?

IMG_0312small.jpg



You'll still have to have a convincing power set up, and with the kind of power draw we're REASONABLY talking about here I imagine it could be a job for a pro to set up...
I'm not a pro, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express the night before I installed the battery bank.

IMG_0631small.jpg




I note that even relatively small converters use heavy cables for their battery connections, so that makes me think that some of the heavy ones you've been talking about here must be using cables near the size of the ones that run from your starting battery to the starter.
Much larger, actually, if it's done right. Battery-to-starter is often #6 AWG cable, or sometimes #4 AWG cable. Mine is # 2/0 X-Flex cable with high quality Panduit and Burndy lugs, heavy duty marine grade busbars, Class-T fuses, master switch, and Xantrex battery monitor.

That really does call for serious thought about how you set that up.
Yes it does.
 
Last edited:

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Or did you mean a 49.6" tall, 4.0 cubic ft apt size refrigerator with separate freezer on top? :D
I made room for it by removing the passenger seat, because it's much more cost efficient than a smaller [dorm size] unit, and I am all about spending less money, if possible. It saves money by reducing grocery store runs [deadhead & time], allowing me to buy more cost efficient larger sizes and quantities, and keep a few 'emergency' rations in the freezer for those times I haven't got time to shop - I'm not big on eating out.
It's not an energy hog, either: I have a VoltMeter [best $17 investment ever!] that I use to observe how much power everything uses in the real world, and how much I have available when the truck is running, the APU is running, or neither is.
When I drove a cargo van, it was a lot harder to stay out for more than 2 weeks, I got tired of the limitations [I like to cook] but couldn't afford to upgrade to a cool Sprinter [and didn't want to anyhow], so this works for me - I can stay out as long as the loads are offered, pretty much, and not spend an arm & a leg on the food bills.
Everyone does it their own way, and one of the best things about EO is the virtual peek you get into some pretty neat ways of doing it, from cargo van to mobile motel room. :)
 

Attachments

  • fridge in truck 001.jpg
    fridge in truck 001.jpg
    84.6 KB · Views: 50

60MPH

Expert Expediter
Hey Turtle what model number are those Trojans?? I take it they are the 6 volts. Looks like your running 2 different banks in series then hooking the 2 banks together in parallel? totaling 12 volts. What is your total reserve cap for this set up? My 2 discovers have had enough and it is now time to replace them or go with a set-up like yours. I have been putting this off for awhile, but now I have the time and money to do so its gonna get done:D I already have a sure power isolator set up (not a solenoid switch) just need to pick up a battery monitor and the batteries and cabling what not.

Any suggestions for a set-up I will be using the factory alt. not adding another just to power this load. I know that these batteries are not really designed to be charged in this style but what can we really do beside putting another external regulated alt. on.

Is there such a regulator out there that can be hooked to a internally regulated alt. and fool it so the house bank can be charged correctly. I know there is house boat set-ups that use a special battery monitor/charger and a external regulated alt. But this ain't a boat and we ain't got the room.

Questions, comments are always welcomed:eek:
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Mine are J305, 610 total amp hours, 1290 minutes (21.5 hours) total reserve capacity.

RLENT just got one of the L16 models they have. Well, he got 4 of 'em.

Here's the URL for the details on mine, and where I got them. Posts 11 and 13 give more details.

Depending on how many amps you draw out of there, one of the Pro Charging Systems chargers (see the link) should work as an in-line 12-volt regulated charger. Better to have the three-bank one, as I found out. But I'm going to go to a different charging system, one that RLENT recently installed and is working very well. It's the Sterling Power 12v alternator to battery charger and would also work extremely well for AGM batteries, which as you know require very specific and controlled charging.
 

60MPH

Expert Expediter
Thanks Turtle I called pro charge and was not to thrilled about the way the charge on the run works. I did how ever look at one of there standard industrial chargers to use when I am hooked to shore power or I can us my gen to run it if I set long enough to require a recharge. I will be looking into the one Rlent got, that looks like it would be the way to go as it will just replace my isolator. I do not require that many amps, all I run is a laptop a 3 speed fan and a small light, so about 5-6 amps at most with everything on at once. Looks like I will be going with 2 L16's as that should be enough reserve cap for me needs. Plus if I sit long enough I can just pull out the gen or plug in somewhere:D and charge'em up.

I am surprised these discovers lasted as long as they have because they are constantly taken below 50% discharge and are over charged quite often and under charged and used again a lot of the time to. I am hard on these batteries.

Thanks again for your help.... oh shelled one.
 

mcavoy33

Seasoned Expediter
I officially give up on my dream of using my rice cooker. I know own a 1500w inverter, 800w inverter and a couple of the smaller ones and I change trucks / vehicles too much to invest in a permanent solution.

I've resigned to eating fast food and the bag of emergency food for when I can't find the time to stop, aka granola bars, peanuts, banana's, apples, trail mix and when I'm real desparate gum.

edit: thx for all your help turtle, denis and everyone else, at least this thread can use a referernce for everyone else and their inverter issues and maybe in a couple of months, what type of diet not to follow for newbys like me.
 

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I'm still hanging about.

About inverters: I have a 700 watt unit that gets used for low-power stuff occasionally, plugged into the cigarette lighter socket. Last used to power a company phone/charger I no longer have, before then a laptop charger. I don't take the laptop much these days, there's stuff on the market that does the job I was asking it to do better. Trying to pull any major power? Forget the cig lighter socket, no way would you get even a fraction of the power I see many of you asking for here. Even for the comparatively small 700 watt unit I see having to do some serious hard-wiring to make it safe and reasonable.

Edit; add-on. I hasten to add here that my situation is probably different than what many here deal with. I drive for an outfit that has me go out loaded, come back empty. That means I'm not trying to pass time at truck stops for three days straight as some here do, so the need for the big hardware simply doesn't exist for me. A small cooler would handle the food I'm likely to need, I have a two-gallon water cooler for longer trips and a sleeping bag handles the times I need to stop for a few hours. Primitive, I know, but when you're gone from home for three days at the most you get by alright "on the cheap".
 
Last edited:
Top