Interesting and disturbing

[RLENT]

Dang I like Star Trek, matter of fact the latest movie is on tonight! Yipee

I caught an old favorite last night: The Andromeda Strain

When it originally came out, my HS biology teacher had a class field trip to go see it which I went on .....

His excuse: it had footage of an electron microscope .....

The other thing I watched was the television premiere of: Semper Fi: Always Faithful

It aired on MSNBC and is a documentary about the Camp Lejeune "Historic Drinking Water Issue" (which has been said by some to be worse than Love Canal), where many service members and their family members were exposed to a toxic, carcinogenic water supply over a period of 30 years ('50's through the '80's) .... and the fight by one old jarhead - Marine Corps Master Sgt. Jerry Ensminger - who after the death of his nine-year-old daughter Janey from a rare type of leukemia, attempted to investigate and bring the problem to light in an attempt to raise awareness and get the USG to come clean and take responsibility for this tragedy and hold them accountable.

"Semper Fi: Always Faithful" brings important national story to light

The show aired during the time slot of Lawrence O'Donnell's "The Last Word" ....

I don't particularly like Mr. O'Donnell .... or what I perceive to his his politics in most cases, however the Salem-News reports that he .... "was instrumental in MSNBC's purchase of the documentary and it is on his show that it will air for the first time on Friday."

So kudos to O'Donnell .....

 

[layoutshooter]

I caught an old favorite last night: The Andromeda Strain

When it originally came out, my HS biology teacher had a class field trip to go see it which I went on .....

His excuse: it had footage of an electron microscope .....

The other thing I watched was the television premiere of: Semper Fi: Always Faithful

It aired on MSNBC and is a documentary about the Camp Lejeune "Historic Drinking Water Issue" (which has been said by some to be worse than Love Canal), where many service members and their family members were exposed to a toxic, carcinogenic water supply over a period of 30 years ('50's through the '80's) .... and the fight by one old jarhead - Marine Corps Master Sgt. Jerry Ensminger - who after the death of his nine-year-old daughter Janey from a rare type of leukemia, attempted to investigate and bring the problem to light in an attempt to raise awareness and get the USG to come clean and take responsibility for this tragedy and hold them accountable.

"Semper Fi: Always Faithful" brings important national story to light

There is a REAL reason that military vets have much higher incidents of certain diseases. Like ALS and others.

 

[layoutshooter]

There is a 100 million dollar 'plant' being installed at the Blue Grass Army Depot to allow for destruction of chemical weapons. You will find LOTS of problems with chemicals etc around Aberdeen Proving Grounds in MD.

Link to Blue Grass

http://www.cma.army.mil/bluegrass.aspx

 

[RLENT]

There is a REAL reason that military vets have much higher incidents of certain diseases. Like ALS and others.

I'm sure there are many reasons why they do ..... but if you have something in particular in mind please feel to share it with us ....

 

[layoutshooter]

I'm sure there are many reasons why they do ..... but if you have something in particular in mind please feel to share it with us ....

The government in general and the military in particular does not adhere to common sense safety measures when handling chemicals. They have a lot more exposure than the general population. In the military is was, more so years ago, part of the job. When chemical weapons were in every day use. Exposure to those agents is now confined to storage/destruction sites, like the Blue Grass site I linked to.

Firefighters are often exposed to chemical compounds that were not intended when products are built but fire 'releases' those compounds. Protective gear worn to protect from heat/flame etc does nothing to protect against chemical contamination.

 

[RLENT]

There is a 100 million dollar 'plant' being installed at the Blue Grass Army Depot to allow for destruction of chemical weapons. You will find LOTS of problems with chemicals etc around Aberdeen Proving Grounds in MD.

Link to Blue Grass

http://www.cma.army.mil/bluegrass.aspx

If I had to bet, I'd guess that there are many more beyond these three (Lejeune, BGAD, APG) ....

The real tragedy at Lejeune was that (at a minimum) the base command eventually knew (even if they weren't aware back in the '50's) there was a problem ..... but apparently sought to cover it up and/or withhold the information from those being exposed ... for years ....

Evidently, as I understand it, they were (are ?) still withholding info (at the time the documentary was shot and produced)

 

[layoutshooter]

If I had to bet, I'd guess that there are many more beyond these three (Lejeune, BGAD, APG) ....

The real tragedy at Lejeune was that (at a minimum) the base command eventually knew (even if they weren't aware back in the '50's) there was a problem ..... but apparently sought to cover it up and/or withhold the information from those being exposed ... for years ....

Evidently, as I understand it, they were (are ?) still withholding info (at the time the documentary was shot and produced)

I know little about the chemical warfare history of the US and world in general. I know far more about the nukes. I do know that the US was a leader in the efforts to do away with these sorts of weapons.

They have been moving the remaining weapons to storage/disposal sites for years. They have a problem with many of the older weapons/agents, the containers that they are in are in bad shape and moving them is dangerous.

 

[RLENT]

The government in general and the military in particular does not adhere to common sense safety measures when handling chemicals.

And the sad irony in that is probably in many cases they were (or are) exempt from the safety regulations that are imposed on the general public.

They have a lot more exposure than the general population.

Generally speaking, yes ..... but there are a good number of us in the general public that were or have been in a high range of exposure ....... even if you include the government and the military ....

I'd guess that I'm probably one of them ....

In the military is was, more so years ago, part of the job. When chemical weapons were in every day use. Exposure to those agents is now confined to storage/destruction sites, like the Blue Grass site I linked to.

Right.

Firefighters are often exposed to chemical compounds that were not intended when products are built but fire 'releases' those compounds.

Yup - I know that in the case of plastics - which are generally present in very significant amounts in any man-made structure - cyanide is one of the things released. Bad stuff obviously ....

Protective gear worn to protect from heat/flame etc does nothing to protect against chemical contamination.

Right.

 

[layoutshooter]

Keep in mind it was not only the military that used chemicals. The National Park Service used "Agent Orange" in the '70's. I used it in Everglades National Park in '73. On days when we were not on a fire we were killing trees that did not belong. We would 'girdle' the tree and then squirt the "Agent Orange" into the cuts. Those squirt bottles leaked. Got a lot of that 'stuff' on my hands.

There is also a lot of anecdotal evidence that exposure to high levels of eletromagnetic radiation causes problems. There is one US site, located in another country where 50% of the people who spent a 3 year, or longer tour there, developed cancer. The problem was that it was not one type of cancer. They never understood what was the cause. All were involved with radio and the building was heavily shielded to keep emissions inside the building.

 

[greg334]

There are a couple worse places, one is out in Nevada.

 

[RLENT]

Keep in mind it was not only the military that used chemicals.

I'm well aware of it

(I worked in three types of places - automotive machine shops, marine vessels, and oil refineries/chemical plants - that used chemicals ..... some of them very nasty - and none of them were government or military)

The National Park Service used "Agent Orange" in the '70's. I used it in Everglades National Park in '73. On days when we were not on a fire we were killing trees that did not belong. We would 'girdle' the tree and then squirt the "Agent Orange" into the cuts. Those squirt bottles leaked. Got a lot of that 'stuff' on my hands.

Yup - bad stuff.

I use (spray) 2,4D (half of the Agent Orange equation) here on the lawn - nasty stuff, but nowhere near as bad as Agent Orange apparently. Nevertheless, I try to be very careful with it - faceshield, gloves, and an apron when mixing, and only spray when there is little to no wind or a thermal inversion - still, the occasional gust of wind while spraying can pose problems ....

There is also a lot of anecdotal evidence that exposure to high levels of eletromagnetic radiation causes problems. There is one US site, located in another country where 50% of the people who spent a 3 year, or longer tour there, developed cancer. The problem was that it was not one type of cancer. They never understood what was the cause. All were involved with radio and the building was heavily shielded to keep emissions inside the building.

Yes indeed.

At one point, a long time ago, I had a client - an older German architect - who was involved in an architectural movement (originally out of Germany), which was based on the idea of "healthy construction" - and creating safe, healthy homes, workspaces, and buildings that attempt to avoid "Sick Building Syndrome" and other environmental dangers ....

It's an interesting field (pun intended) ..... one which ought to get a lot more attention (and real-world application) than it currently does ....

EMF (EMR) is, after all, a form of radiation .......

He was an interesting guy .... had various instruments (which I got to play around with) to measure the EMF emissions (..... for which there many, many sources for in the average home ....) coming off electrical/electronic equipment ....

Was the first time I ever saw a chart which illustrated the electromagnetic spectrum - very similar to the old Westinghouse chart linked below (600K download):

Westinghouse ElectroMagnetic Spectrum

 

[moose]

Or this one from Alaska,
you know, the one the Gov. use to control Jet stream and global warming,
just in-case you wondered why EU have a bad winter and we have a warm one.

http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

 

[layoutshooter]

The VA assumues service connection for ALS because of the high percentage of military vets who contract the disease. I am not sure but it would not surprise me that there are other diseases that fall into that mold.

The government/military was often 'exempt' from safety regulations that the rest of the country was bound by. I have little doubt that many other things that went on that were not 'accidents'.

 

[RLENT]

The VA assumues service connection for ALS because of the high percentage of military vets who contract the disease.

I'm not sure what the VA's position has been on the stuff that's coming up as a possible result of the exposures that happened at Lejeune ...

But I think that is one of the things that Master Sgt. Jerry Ensminger was going for:

H.R. 1742: Janey Ensminger Act

"To amend title 38, United States Code, to direct the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to establish a presumption of service connection for illnesses associated with contaminants in the water supply at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, and to provide health care to family members of veterans who lived at Camp Lejeune while the water was contaminated."​

... and for the USMC to at least make some effort to identify and notify the 750,000 to 1,000,000 people who may have been or were exposed ....

I am not sure but it would not surprise me that there are other diseases that fall into that mold.

Me either .... in fact, it seems likely ....

The government/military was often 'exempt' from safety regulations that the rest of the country was bound by. I have little doubt that many other things that went on that were not 'accidents'.

Yup.