Hey we gave unions thier credit they had thier day and they are in the background and do influence what Toyota and like pay.......and yes this is a bash union thread...
Industrys failing
- Thread starter houts
- Start date
Hey we gave unions thier credit they had thier day and they are in the background and do influence what Toyota and like pay.......and yes this is a bash union thread...
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
lol, I thought it was OVM
The way I see it..the company execs way back when things were golden....gave the unions everything they wanted...way too much, but no one cared "at the time" too ignorant or stupid to think this day would come and the past would haunt them....on the other hand the unions got all they asked for when times were great...and now when times aren't they aren't willing to give back...you know pitch in and help out a bit...ever see a shipper with a broom in his hand?
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
OH things have changed in the last 5 yrs. The last contract changed many things for the workers, Lower pay for new hires, employees paying alot more for health care, work rule changes, {janitors are now contracted out} But ur right, companies were way to slow to put changes in.
Yeah and multitasking skill trades...no more waiitng for an electrician to tag out a machine before the pipefitter can work on it and then wait for the same electrician to unlock it...
But the union fought tooth and nails on that issue....
Pssst....this IS a union bashing thread remember...stay on topic Eh???*LOL*
But the union fought tooth and nails on that issue....
Pssst....this IS a union bashing thread remember...stay on topic Eh???*LOL*
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Hahaha, dang lazy union workers, hope they all lose thier jobs> hahaha hows that?
hey not bad you may yet make senior member...*LOL*
but honestly..Its too bad things have come to this point...it seems to have been a collective effort to self destruct.....
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
I know, i worked at Gm for 31 yrs. I hired in in 76 and i really couldnt believe everything that went on, but they had no competition back then. But they really are working on changing things but the GM monster machine is soooooooo slow at change. As far as the union . Dont be suprised to see the contract reopened and more givebacks coming. And your right, I never saw this happening even back in the 90's Now I sit back an worry about my retirement and healh care. Bankrupt? there goes all I worked for FOR 31 YRS.
I did a short stint with Ford in '74, and like you, I couldn't believe the way things were done. Just imagine if the union had promoted "an honest day's work for an honest day's pay", instead of "do as little as possible for as much as you can get". Yes, the unions are coming around, but it's too little, too late.
Anyone who starts a business has to realize pretty quickly that they have a silent partner, and there's no getting around it. With the auto industry, due to all kinds of regulations and restrictions the silent partner has placed on it, the partner ain't all that silent. While management answers to the stockholder's demands for profitability, and thus keeps on making gas-guzzling SUV's with the foresight of the future taking a back seat, the unions keep biting the hand that feeds it, again, with their own foresight taking a back seat, the silent partner keeps introducing regulations and various mandates without concern for the overall effects on the company or the industry. Now, everyone has to work together to bail themselves out, the silent partner included. So to say let them fail, or let business take care of business, is a little short-sighted and too simplistic.
If the UAW dried up and blew away today, not much would change, as their heyday of importance passed long ago. Their reason for coming into being was a good one, and a needed one, and they've done many really great things over the years. But they no longer serve their own purpose and are far more of a detriment to themselves, their industry, and the very people they portend (and pretend) to serve, than they are the great righter of wrongs and the protector of the worker. They're more worried about the Job Bank.
A bailout might avoid any near-term bankruptcy filing, but it won't address Detroit's fundamental problems of making cars that Americans won't buy and labor contracts that are too rich and inflexible to make them competitive.
While GM, for example, has spent billions of dollars on labor buyouts in recent years, it is still forced by federal mileage standards to churn out small cars that make little or no profit, at plants organized by the United Auto Workers, where they are paid a ridiculously artificially inflated salary.
They are going to have to retool and reinvent, and that means the company and management, the unions, and the government are going to have to do it together.
This ain't the way to do it, in any case:
UAW News Update
If the UAW dried up and blew away today, not much would change, as their heyday of importance passed long ago. Their reason for coming into being was a good one, and a needed one, and they've done many really great things over the years. But they no longer serve their own purpose and are far more of a detriment to themselves, their industry, and the very people they portend (and pretend) to serve, than they are the great righter of wrongs and the protector of the worker. They're more worried about the Job Bank.
A bailout might avoid any near-term bankruptcy filing, but it won't address Detroit's fundamental problems of making cars that Americans won't buy and labor contracts that are too rich and inflexible to make them competitive.
While GM, for example, has spent billions of dollars on labor buyouts in recent years, it is still forced by federal mileage standards to churn out small cars that make little or no profit, at plants organized by the United Auto Workers, where they are paid a ridiculously artificially inflated salary.
They are going to have to retool and reinvent, and that means the company and management, the unions, and the government are going to have to do it together.
This ain't the way to do it, in any case:
UAW News Update
And speak of the devil....GM just introduced yet another version of the Hummer...great going GM!!!
They're trying to sell off Hummer. Sales jumped when they came out with the smaller H2 and peaked in 2006 when they sold 71,524 of them (just looked it up on Autodata). But since then it's been all downhill, and not even a bumpy one. Between the gas prices and the incessant whining of environmentalists, they came out with the 5-cylinder H3 model. But that hasn't stopped the whining, and the economy isn't conducive for taking out a Hummer loan . Hummer sales are down 50% (through September) from last year. GM is looking to dump it, on the cheap, ASAP.
I don't know who'd buy it, though. They certainly can't get a loan to pay for it.
I don't know who'd buy it, though. They certainly can't get a loan to pay for it.
TJ959
Veteran Expediter
Some plants are worse than others. I promised myself years ago that I would never buy an other Ford. Never, Ever, never, Nope, Nada. When will those zipperheads in the plants figure out that drivers who deliver there are potential customers and should be treated as human beings rather than be abusive. Some GM plants are unfriendly and one Chrysler plant comes to mind but Ford takes the cake for surly but incompetant dock people. By the way, Did I ever mention that I have had negative experiences in Ford plants??? I think I'd rather deal with the IRS.
Had ANOTHER load to ford the other day in Kansas City, MO. On Saturday.. you could tell it was the weekend... the receiver there was eating "Rold Gold" Pretzels, and reading the weekend paper. I stood there for about 15 minutes before he even acknowledged me.. I had ONE pallet.. I only waited 4 hours to be unloaded... geez. There must have been five other guys cruising around on the fork lifts, but only one guy was unloading. I got to the plant about 11am and a driver told me he had been there since 6am and still waiting. SO, by the time I was unloaded and out of the plant 5 hours of my log book was gone... not to mention most loads go out on saturdays in the afternoon.. so I had to sit the rest of the day and sunday.. THANKS FORD!!!!! IT WAS WELL WORTH THE LOAD...NOT. BUT HEY YOU GUYS GET PAID BY THE HOUR.... FOR NOW!!!!
With all these bailout hearings in DC...all the CEO's are in Washington...they smell money....they should be back trying to fix the problem instead of looking like beggers...trying to save thier board of directors and shareholders....and thier own butts
miker
Seasoned Expediter
Heard Rush Limbaugh on the radio today saying that all 3 CEO'S flew to DC in thier private company jets, while in DC begging for loans to be available. If they are not willing to look at what has caused them to be near bankrupcy ( poor management) why sholud the american people bail them out . whats next, the american people bailing out joes pizza because the owner chose to buy his wife a new mink coat rather than invest and care for (his) business?
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Miker... the big three have been a free ride for everyone involved. To blame the CEOs and top executives alone is like blaming only the president for the economy falling to pieces. The UAW had a HUGE say in how things operated with the car companies. They made the typical worker disinterested, lazy, and wayyyy overpaid. The workers worked for the unions, and saw the companies as their enemies. To me, that will kill a company everytime; doesn't matter if the CEO were God himself.
What alot of people DONT understand is that UNIONS are BUSINESS' TOO!!! They need money to operate, thus union dues. With that being said, UNIONS have forced TONS of business' out of business. I worked for a union grocery store for 13 years.. as our pay increased... so did the union dues we payed... who ultimatly pays .. the customers!! It forces the business to increase the price of goods because of the increased payroll, health insurance, etc. What happened to my company... BANKRUPT!! I had a 10 year partial pention, when they went bankrupt... they were able to pay me a check of $1.15 for my partial pention. Unions are good for some things but ultimately... they segregate the workers from the boss.. the workers from the workers.. employees do LESS get paid MORE. Then when a business has had enough and stands firm.. the UNION coaxes the people to STRIKE.. then if they have too.. SHUT DOWN. Maybe the problem with this country we look for more ways NOT to work..than just getting our hands dirty and keeping AMERICA SOLID..NO we rather shut down the system. Mexico and other countries are thanking our lazy butts for the business.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Houts... that was about the most right-on post I've seen in a long time. Couldn't have been said better! 