In put needed superb/littlec/superc

dragonrider · Jan 20, 2005

I would like to ask for input from all here.Since I have been running I have looked at what I felt would be ideal trucks to run.I have always felt a market for "super"[for want of a better word] set up trucks.I have been developing a super B [under 10,000 gvw] that could haul 3000 lb be [inside box] be 90 wide 12 long and 70 high.I also have a little C not dock high that fits those sizes,but is dual rear wheels and is a 14,000 gvw which works out to 4,600 lb load ,but is under 4 ton empty.The super C is dock high,16ft box and hauls 7000lb.but has a gvw of 17,500.These all are below fuel tax requirments for 95% of where we run. Also all have a built in sleeper not a fold down bed etc.They seem to me to fill a good spot in the job.
I do have a 17ft unicell aro cell that is my protype.It has a 50in built in sleeper and the box fits the above,it is seprate from the box[sleeper].
The biggest problems seem to be the carriers.They love the increased cargo room,but feel even though they get more money for it that they should only pay the basic B rate.
I have put 30,000 miles on it and the truck has done all I could ask,is very stabile in all weather etc,the room and fact of having a permanent bed has been great,[and sleeper isn't done yet lol]
Am I beating a dead horse?If the carriers are not onterested then may I have screwed up ? Thinking team has been part of my reasonings,not more sleeping in the passenger seat,room to stand up and put pants on ,etc sorry to take so much room here ,but am at a point of giving up on project,and probably the whole expiditing thing,all I here is how others are under bidding the loads,etc.

thank you all

Glen Rice · Jan 20, 2005

Sounds like it might be time to talk to management. What you are offering is win/win strategy to me. Talk it over with the highest person on the food chain you can get to talk with you.

LDB · Jan 20, 2005

Can you post some photos?

Leo
truck 767

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

terryandrene · Jan 20, 2005

Dragonrider: Your post implies your superB/C trucks are in the idea stage rather than already built. If this is the case I, for one, applaud you for checking into carrier policies prior to investing in an "irregularly" spec'd truck.

It has long been my belief that we are doing ourselves a disservice by attempting to develop B units that can carry C freight, and C's that can haul D freight, etc. When I entered Expediting in 1989, a B unit was a cargo van that was leased to carry up to 2000#; a C unit carried 2001# to 5000#. I'll hereafter limit my comments to B units, although the gist of my comments apply to all sizes.

These truck sizes were included in my carrier's published tariffs and the rates were for a combination of the vehicle size and freight weight/size capability. Therefore, the customer paid van rates for a van. The carrier could not, by tariff, charge a C rate for a van, even if the van opted to take a little extra weight. In addition, our lease agreement precluded us from taking more than 2000#.

To my knowledge, all of the nationwide expedite carriers followed in the wake of Roberts Express and adopted the same truck size/weight designations. During the 1990's the expedite segment of ground transportation flourished and more and more companies joined the fray and expanded their fleets daily. Keen competition for freight ensued and B unit owners would take more weight than they should have taken. Some modified their trucks to accomodate greater weight or size lcapability and the customers soon came to expect carriers to provide a van that could take more weight.

Nowadays, several carriers have redesignated van freight to be 2500#. At least one nationwide expedite carrier requires a van to carry 3000#. At least one carrier will tolerate any weight the driver deems acceptable. I believe the latter two cases are absurdly unsafe and the former is borderline unacceptable from safety standpoint.

The point of my ranting is "The more we are willing to do, the more we will be expected to do". If the readers of this want a superB, superC, or superD, do it for the improved or increased personal space and not to carry so much as one extra carton or skid, nor a single pound more than that to which the customer is entitled. If you would not carry the whole load for free, why would you want to take a partial load for free?

Terry

dragonrider · Jan 20, 2005

Thanks for the replies,Not real good with this web stuff so forgive if in wrong place.
Yes the drivers who have allowed the carriers to up there weights,have created a real problem for all.I know a carrier out of ohio say that a van is ok at 4000 lb loads,this is scarey to me,I have driven d units as a company driver,lost job after 4 + years cause wouldn't over load in a smow storm no less.Every day I hear, I didn't get long loads cause vans will run it straight thru,900 miles etc.Also last time in Chi-town read in paper how a driver was being charged with felony vehiculer homiced,seems his 1 ton van had 3800 lb on it ,he caused a wreck,killed some people.the defense said truck not over-loaded,cause door said 9900gvw,and van only weighted 6000 empty.But prosecters said its a 1 ton van that 2000lb.
And yes I have a little c,using it to develope the Idea.think its the way to go,but as long as "some" take loads extra cheap,run stupid weights and hours,it will be hard to make any money.I have to have a prototype to get financing to produce them for eveyone else.I also use it to prove Idea,and show around when sitting in the fish-hook,pilot etc.Its funny how good it looks to people,who have sitting for a day in a van.[lol]
The weights and size'z are to make it competitve in todays market.

Thank you all,and before anyone say's it yes my spelling is bad lol but the idea I think is good dragonrider

geo · Jan 20, 2005

i alway have had a over size truck one is for comfort and other is
all the things you need to get job done need little extra room

and a couple of carrie's i know of will pay you for load if you
will you carry it (if it won't over load you)

also with the sprinter i have had loads on that wouldn't fit in a ford van or gmc

and i have alway march to my own drum beat

highway star · Jan 20, 2005

The term "1 ton" is a nickname. The actual payload can be more than that. My E-350 Alumibunk with a full tank, me, and all the junk I carry with me weighs 6900#. My GVW is 9400#. So, I can haul 2500#. So in the example you gave, that van is legal. The defence should be able to blow that prosecuters argument out of the water easily. I don't even think he'd need the O.J. dream team.

davekc · Jan 20, 2005

I have seen a uni-cell with a built in sleeper ect. Very nice truck. The driver I met was in Waco Tx and drove for landstar. They make these trucks ready to go in Buffalo NY according to the driver. Very nice set up. They have these same trucks at Panther also. Not sure on the other carriers.
Davekc

Twmaster · Jan 20, 2005

Say DragonRider.

Got any pics?

--
Mike N

Faster than a speeding poulet.

dragonrider · Jan 20, 2005

>I have seen a uni-cell with a built in sleeper ect. Very
>nice truck. The driver I met was in Waco Tx and drove for
>landstar. They make these trucks ready to go in Buffalo NY
>according to the driver. Very nice set up. They have these
>same trucks at Panther also. Not sure on the other carriers.
>Davekc
Trying to follow comments,Dave Landstar will put on no more or pather,they say not worth work to have something different,Also unicell wants nothing to do with them from the factory,say,s made a few and the people who bought them made so much troubl for them that they will make no more,if I want to spec the body they will make it,but not the finished conversion,just based on there basic truck. i do thank you for your reply. dragonrider

dragonrider · Jan 20, 2005

>The term "1 ton" is a nickname. The actual payload can be
>more than that. My E-350 Alumibunk with a full tank, me, and
>all the junk I carry with me weighs 6900#. My GVW is 9400#.
>So, I can haul 2500#. So in the example you gave, that van
>is legal. The defence should be able to blow that
>prosecuters argument out of the water easily. I don't even
>think he'd need the O.J. dream team.
Not arguing with you,I spent 30 years in automotive,If you check you will see a GM1500 is stated in the factory papers as designed to haul 500lbs,with allowances for different weights with other things same for 2500,and 3500,same with ford 150.250.350.Yes each can carry more but not 3000 or 4000lbs.If you check the tires are rated at a weight for each at max inflation for a temporary weight.Load range E is 2400 single wheel,but those are max-do not acced and only occaicanal use,goodyear tells you at max weight you must reduce speed.The lug nuts on 1/2 3/4 ton are rated at 1600 lb for 5.2100 for 8 unless the larger nuts are used which is 2480 per wheel.That is why a dual rear whell can increase the safe weight by a margine of 3100lb.doesn't matter there are drivers who would put 10000 on them if they could keep the steer tire near the ground,and we have all seen the guys going down the road with headlight looking for airplanes,safe??? As long as drivers do-it,and carriers eat it up,and the shipper/recivers love the cheaper rate it will happen. but everyone better look out when a van hauling 3500lbs,going on a 800 mile run kills some people and it hits the news,dot and cops will have a feild day,you may not have to have a CDL,but you do have to follow basic common sence.And you can be pulled over and checked in any state that wants to.

theoldprof · Jan 21, 2005

Terry. Do you think the Sprinter is the B unit of the future. I read that Sprinters can haul more skids. Can they haul more weight? Can the occasional three skid run offset the additional cost of the Sprinter? Thanks. :+ :+

terryandrene · Jan 21, 2005

>Terry. Do you think the Sprinter is the B unit of the
>future. I read that Sprinters can haul more skids. Can
>they haul more weight?

Prof: Yes to all of the above. We see Sprinters nudging their way into all manner of activity this past year. I've seen them used as an ambulance, R/V's, passenger hauler, many local uses and, of course, Expediters. GM and Ford also see this trend and will surely introduce a competitor to the Sprinter.

I now invite you to return to my previous comments in this thread, and those of Dragonrider. Do we want our carriers to redefine van cargo. If we continue to overload our vans with three skids and carry weights that far exceed our safe capacity, that'll be the consequence. And the sad thing for us is, the customer will be getting what once was "C" freight delivered for "B" prices. This extra weight translates into extra overhead for us because of the extra wear on vehicle components.

You asked if the extra cost of the Sprinter will be offset by the carriage of more freight. I doubt it. We need to hear from a Sprinter owner with a documented history in a Sprinter. For comparison, my 2000 Chev 3500 cost $.44 per mile during 2004. That figure assumes I will own the van for 5 years.

theoldprof · Jan 21, 2005

When reading these comments, a little light went off in my head. The word "productivity" came to mind. In industry increased productivity is sometimes accomplished by having two guys do the work of three, while the third guy is looking for another job. In trucking, it looks like productivity is having B units haul C loads for the same price. It all sounds familiar. Are any of you guys going to be at the truck show in Louisville, my birthplace? Who, and what days? Thanks again.:+ :+

Tom Robertson · Jan 21, 2005

Terry is spot on with the statement that the Sprinter’s inroads into our industry. In my opinion, the Sprinter is a much more versatile vehicle that more than pays off in the difference of cost vs. the Ford and Chevy one ton vans with a diesel engine. Comparatively equipped the price differential is not that much. But everyone needs to know that the high roof 2500 series with the better seats and power equip package can be purchased at about $32K from almost any dealer. Too many are overpaying for this vehicle. A first class conversion with everything you need and some things you don’t need can be put together for $6- 7,500K. This includes inverter, tv, microwave, fridge, and believe it or not... a sliding and locking bulkhead.
NB Trucker has finalized this plan I designed and will be making the conversion, on one of my Sprinters within the next month. Yes he will provide photos when finished. BTW... my Sprinter already had the electronics’ from an earlier conversion and the prices quoted are only my estimate... NB Trucker will be better able to quote the entire job.

Secondly, because this vehicle can handle three 48” cubed skids and has a clearance at the rear door of about 68” is should be considered a 12 foot truck.
Check with your intended carrier, and if they consider the Sprinter as a Van find another carrier who will pay you for the additional skid and or height you vehicle supplies. If a carrier can get away with paying you for a van, and you are moving more than would fit into or more weight than a van can carry, then who do you blame? Try blaming yourself... you cannot allow them to do this... take your Sprinter elsewhere. The 12’ truck rate should pay you a minimum of 10 to 25 cents a mile over the van rates.
But let them know that you will also accept van loads at van rates! Now you are using the vehicle to its true potential.

You can accept van loads at van rates and make money. The fuel economy alone will make it profitable at those rates... plus set up properly you will have when empty a living area that the largest trucks will envy... 72” high by up to 146” in length...that’s a lot of space compared to the typical van set up. And that is with the bed fully extended!
As far as operating cost, my sprinters put my 18mpg Ford diesel E-350’s to shame, an absolute minimum of 4 mpg.s better and normally 6 mpg.s better, to as much as 8mpgs.

Again, Terry has made the call. The Sprinter and certainly somewhere down the line the competition’s similarly sized vehicles will certainly replace the majority of vans in this industry. It just makes CENTS !

dragonrider · Jan 23, 2005

RE: Thanks to all

I thank all who responded to my original question.
But: Tom are you getting kick backs or something? I just came in from Pa.Thank god I was in a stable truck,cause I had no problems using my head,and having the good feeling of a solid dual wheel truck.Yes the wind got bad,and yes I have 17ft of side that was to the wind,but she stayed where I put her.No most of the sprinters and some of the vans where sitting waiting out the wind.The few out were blowing all over,and I was empty.
Also guess it doesn't mean much any more,But i am in a american, [mostly]lol built truck,I think that is important now i am sure who ever will say all about being dodge trucks now etc etc,but ,oh well
Again Thanks to all who replied to what I ask Dragonrider

{sory did poor job writing and i editited it

MSinger · Jan 25, 2005

RE: Thanks to all

I delivered to the Freightliner plant in Gaffney, South Carolina last year. They assemble the Sprinter's there. I know they are technically a foreign vehicle but at least they are assembled here.

Tom Robertson · Jan 25, 2005

RE: Thanks to all

dragonrider...

I would love to be getting a kickback on Sprinter sales.

I have owned several vans over the years, Chevy, GMC, and Ford. All were 1 ton vans. My opinions are based on my experiences. Of the three listed I felt the Ford was the better of the group largely due to the performance of the 7.3 liter powerstroke diesel.
In my opinion the Sprinter is the one and (at this time) only van that makes sense in the expedited industry.

The views I express are not meant to do anything but assist anyone considering replacing their vehicle. The van is larger and therefore capable of producing more revenue>>>

additional reasons...
1. fuel economy
2. load size capability (cubic feet and height)
3. worth the difference alone in increased comfort for the drivers
4. with a 73" high interior most people can stand upright and move throughout the vehicle, unlikely to cause the Quazimoto syndrome!

If anyone from Dodge wants to send me a kickback, you can get my mailing address from my website. As mentioned in an earlier post... assembled in Gaffney, SC!