Improbable Collapse : The Demolition of our Republ

Jayman

Expert Expediter
RE: Improbable Collapse : The Demolition of our Re

I watched the whole 1 hr and 9 minutes of this. It does raise some good questions. I think everybody likes a good mystery.

However, I feel there are some flaws in the theorys presented. As it relates to tower 1 and 2, they cannot say how the buildings "should" have been affected. These towers were built differently than other high rise structures. So, we have no point of reference when it comes to structural integrity. Plus, people in the video stated that the towers were designed to withstand an aircraft strike. One guy was even comparing the Boeing 767 and the Boeing 707 which was commercial airliner of the day when the towers were built. This I believe is a partial truth. Yes, the 707 was roughly the same size. But...I believe the towers were only designed to contend with small aircraft accidents (like we saw recently in New York) not large commercial aircraft. Large commercial aircraft dont crash into skyscrapers on accident. Nobody ever thought in 1970 that large aircraft would be used as a weapon and crashed into buildings like that.

Comparing September 11th and Germany's Reichstag is nuts. (essentially saying that we created this event to justify going to war)I wonder if those guys realize how many people would have to be involved in a plot like that? Plus, some of the players recruited to carry this out would not be coming home. Are we really that good at keeping secrets?

I do wonder about somethings that happened on that day though. Tower 7 is something that makes me curious. I thought it was odd when I was watching in on 9/11. But...I wonder what it takes to buy into something like this? All I know is you would have to have a lot of anger, hate, and contempt for others to believe somebody could do this to our own people.
 

stanleyshenko

Seasoned Expediter
RE: Improbable Collapse : The Demolition of our Re

The point of the movie was to raise questions about what happened on that tragic day and I think it does a good job of it. As I have said before in these forums, I don't follow the government story hook, line and sinker, nor do I swallow this movie's ideas hook, line and sinker. I, like you, have real questions about WTC-7 and that in turn makes me ask questions about WTC-1 and 2. I don't know for sure what happened that day.

That the buildings were designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 is merely being prudent. The Empire State Building was designed to withstand the shock from the impact of a large aircraft. That prudent engineering measure proved itself when a large B-24 bomber got lost in fog and struck the building. That was a large aircraft of its day. It didn't collapse. I don't believe the engineers thought of someone deliberately crashing an airplane into the building in as much as an airplane accidently crashing into the building for whatever reason. Any buiding of that height MUST take into account aircraft accidents.

I do not believe it is nuts to compare Germany's Reichstag fire and to the subsequent German legislation that resulted from it to 9-11 and to the subsequent legislation that resulted from it (PATRIOT Act 1 and 2) and now the Military Commissions Act. I believe we must always be on guard against those who would take our freedoms away for whatever reason. It could be for political gain or simply a misguided belief that they are doing us a favor by trading freedom for security. Do I believe a politician would try to benefit from a tragedy for political reasons? No way, never happen!

The heart of man never changes. The Founding Fathers knew this and designed a system that did not trust in any inherent goodness of man. I'm sure the German people had no idea there were German citizens who could burn down their own Reichstag for political gain. No, evil people come in all nationalities. We must be on guard against them -- always.

By the way. Here is the interview with the owner of WTC-7 saying he pulled the building. I'm not saying it, he says it:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7FvdHv4-iw]


Stanley
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
RE: Improbable Collapse : The Demolition of our Re

I am not directing this to you Stanley, I just want to point out a few things.

Understand that all of this stuff started the day the event happened and many of us who were worked there and privy to a lot more info than most find it rather tiring. I think that many have too much time on their hands and want to make a name for themselves.

Now many think that there is a comparison of the incident in 1944 with the B-25 and the Empire State and WTC-1/2, there are a few simple big differences that make the argument somewhat fruitless.

First thing is the structure of the older building is build completely different from the newer buildings. The metal infrastructure uses different metal and a completely different design. The older building was built at a time when they had less engineering put in the building design itself but the metallurgy of the metal was a little better to handle stresses because of the mass of the infrastructure. The WTC-1/2 collapsed was caused by inability to hold any weight after being heated near white heat level.

ALSO something that many overlook is that WTC-7 was cheaply put up and the design of the building was not up to the same standards as 1 and 2, it was the newest building on the complex.

Second the B-25 Mitchell (medium sized aircraft) has;
A fuel 950 gallon usable capacity
Weighs 21,100 pounds empty
33,000 pounds generally loaded
Has TWO 1700 HP engines
Has a cruise speed of 230 MPH but estimated that it hit the building at less than 180 MPH

In comparison

The Boeing 757/767 has;
A fuel capacity of 24,000 gallons of jet fuel
A weight of around 375,000 loaded depending on the configurations and passenger load
Generates 126,600 lb of thrust from two engines
Has a cruise speed of 530 MPH but was accelerating (meaning maximum thrust) when they hit the WTC – 1/2 and I understand was around 250 MPH and increasing.

Oh one last thing, the owner of the WTC-7 did not have the ‘right’ to make the call to demo the building, however he did have the right to pull the rescue people out of the building. He has to confer and answer to the people who insured and financed the building - especially the latter, so he can only do what they say. I know that the insurance people were not talking to him until long after he had the rescue people get out and the finance people didn't talk to him until somethig like two days after. The media and kooks have simplified the situation with WTC-7 and the adjacent building's damage and many who have come up with some of these theories have never been to the site before or after. Sorry now I am venting.
 

Broompilot

Veteran Expediter
RE: Improbable Collapse : The Demolition of our Re

I will not watch it what is done is done nothing I can do is gona change history. I find this whole subject just to painfull to participate in, my only comment is I am amazed that a jet at hundreds of mph did not cut right thru but all that fuel burning what could be built to withstand thousand of gallons doing what nature designed things to do -fall downwards-
 
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